P500 Hesitant (paddle) shifting

[natewheeldrive]

Hey all: Long time reader, short time poster here. I'm having similar issues with my 2017.
The highlights are:
shifted normally for the past 600 miles. Rode it about a week ago and problems started. I can't identify a cause or something that was done. Ran fine after most recent oil change and clutch adjustment. I put it away ok and got it back out and something's not right.
It was initially cutting out completely on flat ground or on a hill ascent or decent like previously posted by others, it would do this in auto mode a few times and then it would enter something of a limp mode where the paddles no longer functioned and would not return till the key was cycled.
I was getting a DTC of 5-7 (5 long and 7 short) flashes in the gear position screen.
disconnected the battery and the same thing occurred. a few attempts were made at adjusting the clutch with no results.
With one more attempt at adjusting the clutch it finally started shifted more consistently in auto and manual but with a significant delay in clutch engagement. in manual or auto.
Clutch adjusted again with no change. It is as if the gears change but the clutch is being held apart too long. My machine has always shifted fairly quickly since day one.
I don't have a service manual to interpret the code 5-7.
the clutch adjustment was done the same as shown in the video posted in this thread.
It will be going to the dealer on Saturday unless anyone has any more ideas.
I'm bummed because this is the first Honda I have had any issue with out of a 300EX, 300 FOURTRAX, 400 FREMAN, EU2000 generator.
Thank you all

 

[SouthwestORV]

Hey all: Long time reader, short time poster here. I'm having similar issues with my 2017.
The highlights are:
shifted normally for the past 600 miles. Rode it about a week ago and problems started. I can't identify a cause or something that was done. Ran fine after most recent oil change and clutch adjustment. I put it away ok and got it back out and something's not right.
It was initially cutting out completely on flat ground or on a hill ascent or decent like previously posted by others, it would do this in auto mode a few times and then it would enter something of a limp mode where the paddles no longer functioned and would not return till the key was cycled.
I was getting a DTC of 5-7 (5 long and 7 short) flashes in the gear position screen.
disconnected the battery and the same thing occurred. a few attempts were made at adjusting the clutch with no results.
With one more attempt at adjusting the clutch it finally started shifted more consistently in auto and manual but with a significant delay in clutch engagement. in manual or auto.
Clutch adjusted again with no change. It is as if the gears change but the clutch is being held apart too long. My machine has always shifted fairly quickly since day one.
I don't have a service manual to interpret the code 5-7.
the clutch adjustment was done the same as shown in the video posted in this thread.
It will be going to the dealer on Saturday unless anyone has any more ideas.
I'm bummed because this is the first Honda I have had any issue with out of a 300EX, 300 FOURTRAX, 400 FREMAN, EU2000 generator.
Thank you all

I don’t know, I just hope it ain’t hereditary!! Let us know what you find out.

 

[Neohio]

Hey all: Long time reader, short time poster here. I'm having similar issues with my 2017.
The highlights are:
shifted normally for the past 600 miles. Rode it about a week ago and problems started. I can't identify a cause or something that was done. Ran fine after most recent oil change and clutch adjustment. I put it away ok and got it back out and something's not right.
It was initially cutting out completely on flat ground or on a hill ascent or decent like previously posted by others, it would do this in auto mode a few times and then it would enter something of a limp mode where the paddles no longer functioned and would not return till the key was cycled.
I was getting a DTC of 5-7 (5 long and 7 short) flashes in the gear position screen.
disconnected the battery and the same thing occurred. a few attempts were made at adjusting the clutch with no results.
With one more attempt at adjusting the clutch it finally started shifted more consistently in auto and manual but with a significant delay in clutch engagement. in manual or auto.
Clutch adjusted again with no change. It is as if the gears change but the clutch is being held apart too long. My machine has always shifted fairly quickly since day one.
I don't have a service manual to interpret the code 5-7.
the clutch adjustment was done the same as shown in the video posted in this thread.
It will be going to the dealer on Saturday unless anyone has any more ideas.
I'm bummed because this is the first Honda I have had any issue with out of a 300EX, 300 FOURTRAX, 400 FREMAN, EU2000 generator.
Thank you all

Your code is 57, not 5-7. When I get to my laptop I will pull up the manual and see what I can find for you.

 

[Neohio]

Hey all: Long time reader, short time poster here. I'm having similar issues with my 2017.
The highlights are:
shifted normally for the past 600 miles. Rode it about a week ago and problems started. I can't identify a cause or something that was done. Ran fine after most recent oil change and clutch adjustment. I put it away ok and got it back out and something's not right.
It was initially cutting out completely on flat ground or on a hill ascent or decent like previously posted by others, it would do this in auto mode a few times and then it would enter something of a limp mode where the paddles no longer functioned and would not return till the key was cycled.
I was getting a DTC of 5-7 (5 long and 7 short) flashes in the gear position screen.
disconnected the battery and the same thing occurred. a few attempts were made at adjusting the clutch with no results.
With one more attempt at adjusting the clutch it finally started shifted more consistently in auto and manual but with a significant delay in clutch engagement. in manual or auto.
Clutch adjusted again with no change. It is as if the gears change but the clutch is being held apart too long. My machine has always shifted fairly quickly since day one.
I don't have a service manual to interpret the code 5-7.
the clutch adjustment was done the same as shown in the video posted in this thread.
It will be going to the dealer on Saturday unless anyone has any more ideas.
I'm bummed because this is the first Honda I have had any issue with out of a 300EX, 300 FOURTRAX, 400 FREMAN, EU2000 generator.
Thank you all

Pulled these pages from my manual.
Check for rodent damage, then proceed to the testing specified.

 

[trigger]

Might be a stupid question but did you use oil approved for wet clutch?

 

[Mudder]

Know you already tried several clutch adjustments, but hope it just needs a little fine tuning. Hope its not electrical or computer. Following for updates, and good luck.

 

[Dp5hunter]

My 2016 P500 has a problem also but it's the opposite, when down shifting while under a load it revs up and shifts incredibly hard. To the point that I thought it was damedg. But it is ok so far. But I have to ease off the trundle bifor down shifting. Is anyone else having this problem and what could be the problem.

 

[Montecresto]

My 2016 P500 has a problem also but it's the opposite, when down shifting while under a load it revs up and shifts incredibly hard. To the point that I thought it was damedg. But it is ok so far. But I have to ease off the trundle bifor down shifting. Is anyone else having this problem and what could be the problem.

It can definitely be annoying, both on the upshift and down shift I find a sweet spot in letting off the gas and it shifts smooth as butter, but hitting that spot consistently is the challenge. Have to be paying close attention when doing it. Distracted shifting can be tough on it. At least it feels and sounds like it is.

 

[Duckhunt]

Hey all: Long time reader, short time poster here. I'm having similar issues with my 2017.
The highlights are:
shifted normally for the past 600 miles. Rode it about a week ago and problems started. I can't identify a cause or something that was done. Ran fine after most recent oil change and clutch adjustment. I put it away ok and got it back out and something's not right.
It was initially cutting out completely on flat ground or on a hill ascent or decent like previously posted by others, it would do this in auto mode a few times and then it would enter something of a limp mode where the paddles no longer functioned and would not return till the key was cycled.
I was getting a DTC of 5-7 (5 long and 7 short) flashes in the gear position screen.
disconnected the battery and the same thing occurred. a few attempts were made at adjusting the clutch with no results.
With one more attempt at adjusting the clutch it finally started shifted more consistently in auto and manual but with a significant delay in clutch engagement. in manual or auto.
Clutch adjusted again with no change. It is as if the gears change but the clutch is being held apart too long. My machine has always shifted fairly quickly since day one.
I don't have a service manual to interpret the code 5-7.
the clutch adjustment was done the same as shown in the video posted in this thread.
It will be going to the dealer on Saturday unless anyone has any more ideas.
I'm bummed because this is the first Honda I have had any issue with out of a 300EX, 300 FOURTRAX, 400 FREMAN, EU2000 generator.
Thank you all

If there's a code it's 100% electrical. Intermittent "open circuit" codes are usually a loose connection or pin in a plug, constant "open circuit" codes means there is a broken wire, very loose or disconnected connector/plug, etc.

Since the switch signal wires should have continuity to ground (when in that gear position), that tells us they're sending a signal down all pins/wires and whichever wire or circuit is complete that's how it knows what gear it's in. So I'm curious does it ever tell you what gear you're in on the display? If not then either the PCM isn't sending the signal(s) or they aren't making it all the way down to the switch, I'd rule out the switch itself because it is just that, a switch not a sensor. It's an 8 position switch the gear shaft is rotating, or switching. Even if that was all broke the switch should still be stuck on one gear. If it's intermittent then I'd bet a can of red, white, and blue it's a loose connection (ruling out PCM). However if it just faults/hesitates going to one gear then it should be that gear wire/circuit. Still test the switch at the gear since it's simple.

EDIT: I should have stated looking at the schematic the switch grounds itself to the motor casing, there is no "ground wire" that could break.

 

[Montecresto]

If there's a code it's 100% electrical. Intermittent "open circuit" codes are usually a loose connection or pin in a plug, constant "open circuit" codes means there is a broken wire, very loose or disconnected connector/plug, etc.

Wow, that’s good to know, would have been helpful info a couple weeks ago when I was diagnosing what turned out to be a 4” section of wire removed by a damn yankee rat, lol. Well I know now, thanks for putting it up Duck!!!

 

[Duckhunt]

LOL No prob! I'm a product support specialist for a compact track loader manufacturer and when I take a call from one of our dealers that "this doesn't work" first thing I ask is "is there a code?" Because that will determine if it's mechanical/hydraulic or electrical!

 

[BuckCreek01]

The plan:
I will be returning to Houston Valley OHV for testing. I would like @Mudder to run my rig for comparison to his. We will try clutch adjustments and go from there.

The weather and work have not been cooperative lately but hopefully we can test this year. Big thanks to @Mudder for support.

I hope we can fix this issue. If not, I will take my p5 back to the dealer.

 

[natewheeldrive]

Hey all: Long time reader, short time poster here. I'm having similar issues with my 2017.
The highlights are:
shifted normally for the past 600 miles. Rode it about a week ago and problems started. I can't identify a cause or something that was done. Ran fine after most recent oil change and clutch adjustment. I put it away ok and got it back out and something's not right.
It was initially cutting out completely on flat ground or on a hill ascent or decent like previously posted by others, it would do this in auto mode a few times and then it would enter something of a limp mode where the paddles no longer functioned and would not return till the key was cycled.
I was getting a DTC of 5-7 (5 long and 7 short) flashes in the gear position screen.
disconnected the battery and the same thing occurred. a few attempts were made at adjusting the clutch with no results.
With one more attempt at adjusting the clutch it finally started shifted more consistently in auto and manual but with a significant delay in clutch engagement. in manual or auto.
Clutch adjusted again with no change. It is as if the gears change but the clutch is being held apart too long. My machine has always shifted fairly quickly since day one.
I don't have a service manual to interpret the code 5-7.
the clutch adjustment was done the same as shown in the video posted in this thread.
It will be going to the dealer on Saturday unless anyone has any more ideas.
I'm bummed because this is the first Honda I have had any issue with out of a 300EX, 300 FOURTRAX, 400 FREMAN, EU2000 generator.
Thank you all

UPDATE: The oil used at brake in and the last service was Honda GN4 with a Honda filter. I inspected all the wiring I could follow from the PCM back and found nothing. I checked battery voltage and it was 12.8. I did one more clutch adjustment for the heck of it (full turn in, out until resistance and back a quarter turn). I went up and down the road a few times in manual and auto and it is shifting normally, maybe just with a little slippage around 2,3,4 gears but no where near what was going on yesterday. the display shows all the gear changes correctly corresponding to the gear it is in. It's like it fixed itself. I can't take it to the dealer now, with no active problem. The only thing I wonder if it is a temperature related issue, because it was 15 to 20 degrees warmer today vs the past several days. Thank you all for responding with your thoughts and the images of the pages from the service manual. I will update with any changes.

 

[DG Rider]

Interesting you said it "fixed" itself.
Yesterday i started off from a break and got noticeably harder than normal shifts for a bit, but they slowly seemed to come back to normal. I shut the machine off to see if it would help, and it did.
Almost seems like the ECM gets confused at times by getting poor data. Maybe a shift shaft that does't go quite back to center when the machine gets cut off, and at the next start up, it takes off using the wrong shift angle range, but slowly fixes itself when it starts seeing more accurate data.

I have also tried to pay attention to clutch times. Clutch engagement does seem to be a bit delayed under heavy throttle while climbing, or when down shifting under closed throttle. I think some of the variation we see in clutch engagement may just be the ECM doing what it was programed to do by giving more time for shifts under difficult conditions.

The whole ESP thing was never big to me anyway. This iteration with ignition cutout is pretty good, but it still occasionally bangs a gear. The older versions (like the late 90's) sounded like tranny trouble waiting to happen, and thats why i never liked it. It's simply not nearly as good as my well practised thumb and foot.
'Course...you can't put a foot shifter on a SxS, so there wasn't much choice. Well...except the DCT Rubi 500 thats just sitting there waiting to be put in the Pioneer. I don't want a DCT 700, but the 500 could really use it.

 

[rtn001]

UPDATE: The oil used at brake in and the last service was Honda GN4 with a Honda filter. I inspected all the wiring I could follow from the PCM back and found nothing. I checked battery voltage and it was 12.8. I did one more clutch adjustment for the heck of it (full turn in, out until resistance and back a quarter turn). I went up and down the road a few times in manual and auto and it is shifting normally, maybe just with a little slippage around 2,3,4 gears but no where near what was going on yesterday. the display shows all the gear changes correctly corresponding to the gear it is in. It's like it fixed itself. I can't take it to the dealer now, with no active problem. The only thing I wonder if it is a temperature related issue, because it was 15 to 20 degrees warmer today vs the past several days. Thank you all for responding with your thoughts and the images of the pages from the service manual. I will update with any changes.

Just thinking. You did do something. You checked the wires and connectors. I am assuming you did this hands on and moved the wires and connectors. You may have fixed the problem and did not realize it. I would revisit the wiring and connector inspection and make sure all connectors have dielectric grease and all pins are making good contact. Again, just thinking. Good luck.

 

[natewheeldrive]

Just thinking. You did do something. You checked the wires and connectors. I am assuming you did this hands on and moved the wires and connectors. You may have fixed the problem and did not realize it. I would revisit the wiring and connector inspection and make sure all connectors have dielectric grease and all pins are making good contact. Again, just thinking. Good luck.

Its funny you mentioned diaelectric grease. When i was inspecting I thought i should take the time and apply it to the connections. Ive had a dab of dialectric grease solve electrical issues before. I am visually impaired and i use my hands to see things that the average person just might look at, so a good bit of the wiring was inspected by feel and moving wires and pushing/pulling on plugs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Duckhunt]

Its funny you mentioned diaelectric grease. When i was inspecting I thought i should take the time and apply it to the connections. Ive had a dab of dialectric grease solve electrical issues before. I am visually impaired and i use my hands to see things that the average person just might look at, so a good bit of the wiring was inspected by feel and moving wires and pushing/pulling on plugs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You fixed it LOL! Cold morning didn't help, stuff shrinks especially thin metal. I've seen much stranger stuff. Now you know exactly what to do next time she codes like that!

 

[Mudder]

Maybe that one more clutch adjustment for the heck of it helped. Clutch adjustment is sensitive and affects engine cutting out, been there. Wish I knew more about the relationship, but guess it relates to the programmed engine retard during shifting. Regardless of the cause, glad its working now, your post may help others in the future. @natewheeldrive .

 

[70Bones]

I was powering up a steep icy hill today in automatic and in 4WD, I wanted it to shift down so I tapped the down paddle and it took a couple of seconds before I had power to the wheels, and she slowed down a lot. Thought I was going to lose my momentum and have to back down, but the tires hung on well. But that couple seconds without power to the wheels surprised me, never did that before. 2017, 600 miles. But, after about 3 hours of cruising on icy roads and really tight trails, I'm more in love with her! When I got back to the trailer, gas gauge was still showing 5 bars!

 

[rtn001]

Its funny you mentioned diaelectric grease. When i was inspecting I thought i should take the time and apply it to the connections. Ive had a dab of dialectric grease solve electrical issues before. I am visually impaired and i use my hands to see things that the average person just might look at, so a good bit of the wiring was inspected by feel and moving wires and pushing/pulling on plugs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Happy for you that the problem is corrected. I have always hated this type of fix as I want to know where and how. Drives me crazy. I have been known to go over the system several times trying to duplicate the problem so I know the fix for future reference. As I get older I have become better at accepting.