P700 High elevation power loss

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caverat

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I need some help hear please.
#1 can a dealer change the fuel map with out having to buy a tuner?
#2 As far as portals what is the maintenance like on them?
Today was the first time I have been able to take my 700-2 out and really put it to a good true test.
Deep wet heavy snow slush and mud It did well to around 5k then started going down hill fast from there at 5800 just solid junk totally powered out. could not even spin the tiers on wet snow.
I ride mainly from 5k to 9k. most of our terrain around hear is steep and rocky. powering out on a climb is just not an option.
rolling on 27" big horns. ground clearance is a must so smaller tire is not an option.
 
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HondaTech

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We only have access to maps Honda releases for us to update due to recalls, PUDs, or something similar.

We dont have access to map level tuning with our diagnostic software. The only thing out there for that is DynoJet or a custom tuner.
 
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JACKAL

JACKAL

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I need some help hear please.
#1 can a dealer change the fuel map with out having to buy a tuner?
#2 As far as portals what is the maintenance like on them?
Today was the first time I have been able to take my 700-2 out and really put it to a good true test.
Deep wet heavy snow slush and mud It did well to around 5k then started going down hill fast from there at 5800 just solid junk totally powered out. could not even spin the tiers on wet snow.
I ride mainly from 5k to 9k. most of our terrain around hear is steep and rocky. powering out on a climb is just not an option.
rolling on 27" big horns. ground clearance is a must so smaller tire is not an option.
Sounds like a Pioneer 1000 with low range would better suit your use, instead of portals. From what I have seen break down in my area the portals just don't hold up in mountains. The P700 just struggles with one third the power and half the gears.
 
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DG Rider

DG Rider

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I've had a video out there for SEVEN years chronicling the 700's issues with high els. No reason for this to be a surprise to anyone at this point.
Go buy a high flow air filter and one if those exhaust tips. If that does it for you , congratulations. You get a durable, long lasting machine.
If not, trade it in and cut your losses. 1000 Pioneer will do...and hopefully you don't have to battle overheating issues in same conditions... though Those can be fixed for that aftermarket stuff.
Or better yet, go buy a X2/X4 yamaha, and support a company that puts functionality ahead of catering to a fan base that only requires the lack of a belt drive as a buying curriculum. What you are experiencing is a casualty of putting a dimple chinned surfer dude in charge of development, as opposed to someone who's knowledgeable about off-road use.
 
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caverat

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  1. 700-2
I've had a video out there for SEVEN years chronicling the 700's issues with high els. No reason for this to be a surprise to anyone at this point.
Go buy a high flow air filter and one if those exhaust tips. If that does it for you , congratulations. You get a durable, long lasting machine.
If not, trade it in and cut your losses. 1000 Pioneer will do...and hopefully you don't have to battle overheating issues in same conditions... though Those can be fixed for that aftermarket stuff.
Or better yet, go buy a X2/X4 yamaha, and support a company that puts functionality ahead of catering to a fan base that only requires the lack of a belt drive as a buying curriculum. What you are experiencing is a casualty of putting a dimple chinned surfer dude in charge of development, as opposed to someone who's knowledgeable about off-road use.
I've replaced the air filter with a K&N but not an exhaust tip. really bummed out this is a cheap easy fix with a carbureted motor. I've had to do it to every atv I've ever owned. This is my first EFI machine. A+ on the Yama hammer my own fault for being a ship jumper 3 Grizzly 450s and beat them mercilessly and they are still getting it done. well 1 had to have the top end rebuilt. wrong filter choice for MOAB!
 
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DG Rider

DG Rider

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  1. 700-2
I've replaced the air filter with a K&N but not an exhaust tip. really bummed out this is a cheap easy fix with a carbureted motor. I've had to do it to every atv I've ever owned. This is my first EFI machine. A+ on the Yama hammer my own fault for being a ship jumper 3 Grizzly 450s and beat them mercilessly and they are still getting it done. well 1 had to have the top end rebuilt. wrong filter choice for MOAB!
It's not a fuel mapping issue. The efi on the 700 is self compensating for altitude. It needs no adjustment. It's true that it will stay at the leanish a/f ratio of stock, but a fatter fuel cure won't fix it. It's just the HP loss from altitude and the lack of a low range.
Try the $40 exhaust tip...as it will help some. Also, s*** can the 27" tires. I have 26", and that's the biggest I will ever run...and I'm nowhere near those elevations now.
 
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caverat

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Sounds like a Pioneer 1000 with low range would better suit your use, instead of portals. From what I have seen break down in my area the portals just don't hold up in mountains. The P700 just struggles with one third the power and half the gears.
This is kinda what my wife and I have concluded I can dump another $4 or $5k into this and still not be happy or swallow my pride admit I failed to research properly and go get the 1000. I did not want that big of machine but by the time I've modified the 700 to get the ground clearance and stability needed for my environment I am taller and wider than the 1000 with non of the benefits.
Just sucks to start all over again!
This is my first SXS so a learning curve should have been expected. I've never had a need for a bigger machine my 450 atv's have always been able to go and do anything I ever asked. But they all have low range. Not having low range is a major fumble on Hondas part IMO.
 
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caverat

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  1. 700-2
Just ran out to my friends house. Who has the 1000 limited addition Comes with almost every add on I want for less $$$ than I can by and install them for. Seams like kind of a no brainer now I know.
Was able to find a used 1000-3 limited edition 2021 300 miles away with 350 miles on it hard top, hard front and rear window for $18,500 sounds like a good deal to me?
What kind of trade in price should I expect to be fair for my 2021 700-2 deluxe 650 miles with 8k worth of add on's?

'
 
DG Rider

DG Rider

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This is kinda what my wife and I have concluded I can dump another $4 or $5k into this and still not be happy or swallow my pride admit I failed to research properly and go get the 1000. I did not want that big of machine but by the time I've modified the 700 to get the ground clearance and stability needed for my environment I am taller and wider than the 1000 with non of the benefits.
Just sucks to start all over again!
This is my first SXS so a learning curve should have been expected. I've never had a need for a bigger machine my 450 atv's have always been able to go and do anything I ever asked. But they all have low range. Not having low range is a major fumble on Hondas part IMO.
You kind of sound like me when I first got my 1st 700...also my 1st SxS. I'd owned mostly Honda ATVs to that point, and the thing that was always amazing to me about Hondas was that they always seem to perform better than the spec sheet indicated. The 700 was a different animal.

There had been mumblings about this engine and it's too-tall gearing since it debuted in the Rincon back in 03, and I heard more about the big red that first used it in a side by side, but those didn't sell very well so it was difficult to gauge the truth. People assured me that the 700 had plenty of power...And then that's because for most people it does. But like you, I lived at relatively high elevations in central Arizona, typically riding at 5,000 ft Plus.

I quickly discovered the shortcomings of a lack of a lower range on this machine, and was furious that Honda and put this out. There's simply no way they couldn't have known about these issues unless all they did was drive a thing around the test track in South Carolina. Sometimes I confess I'm starting to wonder if that was actually all they did with it...

I put it on Craigslist for sale, but the fact is I probably wasn't going to get out of it what I owed, so I bit the bullet and just used it since I couldn't afford to trade it. And it ran. And ran. And ran.

Some 9,000 mi later I ended up getting into a tight spot and had to sell it, but in those miles the only thing I had to do to it was a two-dollar output shaft seal it right around 8000 Miles. That is certainly a persuasive argument. I ended up picking up a used 500 which I enjoyed but the ride and capability wasn't quite up to that 700, so I always plan to trade it when I could...and to be honest, I kinda missed the old 700.

Last summer I came very close to picking up a 1000, but I didn't want the price and the size...and the fact is you see a great number of people with overheating issues at these elevations, so in a sense, my whole reason for buying the 1000 was just trading one problem for another. I had misgivings about it from the start, so when the deal fell through, I actually felt some relief and knew I was picking up my second 700, this time of two seater. I should note that I no longer ride at those elevations and the highest I'll probably ever be with any regularitiy probably like 5,600 ft for a brief period. So here, the 700 does all I need it to do, but I confess someday I may give that 1000 a try...or maybe another machine.

Sounds like you're well on your way to selling the 700 so it probably doesn't matter, but just for reference, reverse is actually slightly lower geared than first, so you can often back through things that you can't drive through forward. And yes that sucks, but it gets you through.
Just ran out to my friends house. Who has the 1000 limited addition Comes with almost every add on I want for less $$$ than I can by and install them for. Seams like kind of a no brainer now I know.
Was able to find a used 1000-3 limited edition 2021 300 miles away with 350 miles on it hard top, hard front and rear window for $18,500 sounds like a good deal to me?
What kind of trade in price should I expect to be fair for my 2021 700-2 deluxe 650 miles with 8k worth of add on's?

'
With limited supply right now you'll probably get a good price on your machine, so selling it outright and picking up a used one might be the way to go.
I mention this only because you said you're a side-by-side rookie... But do some research here on the i-4wd setup on the LE.
 
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caverat

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  1. 700-2
I truly would love nothing more than to keep the 700 I have put so much work into it. and really like the size and well everything about it. But I live at 5000 feet and it only goes up from hear. Over heating don't concern me to much in the summer months I typically don't ride crazy hard for very long distance spend a lot of time looking at stuff. Now hunting season I push hard over 20 to 30 miles in deep snow. This was the primary purpose for the SXS I bust or wreck my truck every year!
Stupid hurts one way or the other!!!
Hunting is life to me. I shut my business down for 6 weeks every year for it. set up 2 canvas tents for a base camp and roam from that point. Chasing black bear, mule deer, white tail deer & of course Elk.
My demand on me and my gear is ridiculous. I can be at 10k feet and -20 deg chasing elk one day and the next be at 4500 feet on the river at 60 deg the next. I have a satellite camp that I will move in when needed that I backpack into the back country from.
Thank you so much for all your helpful input you have been a great resource in helping me with all my problems and solving them.
 
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caverat

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  1. 700-2
I'll be digging my atv out some time this week and will post some pics. Its like the perfect hunting atv.
 
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DG Rider

DG Rider

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  1. 700-2
I truly would love nothing more than to keep the 700 I have put so much work into it. and really like the size and well everything about it. But I live at 5000 feet and it only goes up from hear. Over heating don't concern me to much in the summer months I typically don't ride crazy hard for very long distance spend a lot of time looking at stuff. Now hunting season I push hard over 20 to 30 miles in deep snow. This was the primary purpose for the SXS I bust or wreck my truck every year!
Stupid hurts one way or the other!!!
Hunting is life to me. I shut my business down for 6 weeks every year for it. set up 2 canvas tents for a base camp and roam from that point. Chasing black bear, mule deer, white tail deer & of course Elk.
My demand on me and my gear is ridiculous. I can be at 10k feet and -20 deg chasing elk one day and the next be at 4500 feet on the river at 60 deg the next. I have a satellite camp that I will move in when needed that I backpack into the back country from.
Thank you so much for all your helpful input you have been a great resource in helping me with all my problems and solving them.
You say you had trouble at 5800' in snow? I've had trouble with my original 700 in frozen, icy snow...but it was on up around 8-9k feet, but then again, I was on 25's. Is it possible something might be amiss?

What year is your machine? Is it loaded down to the max?
 
NewHere2

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You kind of sound like me when I first got my 1st 700...also my 1st SxS. I'd owned mostly Honda ATVs to that point, and the thing that was always amazing to me about Hondas was that they always seem to perform better than the spec sheet indicated. The 700 was a different animal.

There had been mumblings about this engine and it's too-tall gearing since it debuted in the Rincon back in 03, and I heard more about the big red that first used it in a side by side, but those didn't sell very well so it was difficult to gauge the truth. People assured me that the 700 had plenty of power...And then that's because for most people it does. But like you, I lived at relatively high elevations in central Arizona, typically riding at 5,000 ft Plus.

I quickly discovered the shortcomings of a lack of a lower range on this machine, and was furious that Honda and put this out. There's simply no way they couldn't have known about these issues unless all they did was drive a thing around the test track in South Carolina. Sometimes I confess I'm starting to wonder if that was actually all they did with it...

I put it on Craigslist for sale, but the fact is I probably wasn't going to get out of it what I owed, so I bit the bullet and just used it since I couldn't afford to trade it. And it ran. And ran. And ran.

Some 9,000 mi later I ended up getting into a tight spot and had to sell it, but in those miles the only thing I had to do to it was a two-dollar output shaft seal it right around 8000 Miles. That is certainly a persuasive argument. I ended up picking up a used 500 which I enjoyed but the ride and capability wasn't quite up to that 700, so I always plan to trade it when I could...and to be honest, I kinda missed the old 700.

Last summer I came very close to picking up a 1000, but I didn't want the price and the size...and the fact is you see a great number of people with overheating issues at these elevations, so in a sense, my whole reason for buying the 1000 was just trading one problem for another. I had misgivings about it from the start, so when the deal fell through, I actually felt some relief and knew I was picking up my second 700, this time of two seater. I should note that I no longer ride at those elevations and the highest I'll probably ever be with any regularitiy probably like 5,600 ft for a brief period. So here, the 700 does all I need it to do, but I confess someday I may give that 1000 a try...or maybe another machine.

Sounds like you're well on your way to selling the 700 so it probably doesn't matter, but just for reference, reverse is actually slightly lower geared than first, so you can often back through things that you can't drive through forward. And yes that sucks, but it gets you through.

With limited supply right now you'll probably get a good price on your machine, so selling it outright and picking up a used one might be the way to go.
I mention this only because you said you're a side-by-side rookie... But do some research here on the i-4wd setup on the LE.
With out a doubt, this is the most informative post I've read. Using reverse gear was first used back in the Ford Model A & T days! 👍
 
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caverat

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  1. 700-2
it is a 2021. I think the 27 in tiers are a big part of the problem. I do carry about 200 lbs of misc gear all the time. I've had the thought that if I go back to 25's I could put a 4" lift kit on and probably be good. It's just I'm crazy nervous that when I end up on a long steep climb and power out its going to be a train wreck. And when hunting season comes around I will have times that it will be loaded close to full payload
 
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DG Rider

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With out a doubt, this is the most informative post I've read. Using reverse gear was first used back in the Ford Model A & T days! 👍
LOL...I had forgotten about the old Ford technique.
it is a 2021. I think the 27 in tiers are a big part of the problem. I do carry about 200 lbs of misc gear all the time. I've had the thought that if I go back to 25's I could put a 4" lift kit on and probably be good. It's just I'm crazy nervous that when I end up on a long steep climb and power out its going to be a train wreck. And when hunting season comes around I will have times that it will be loaded close to full payload
I dunno. It's a crapshoot. If you still have the stockers, give it a try...
But...I can't tell you in to spend any more knowing that the ultimate answer is another machine.
 
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caverat

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  1. 700-2
When I first bought it in November It ran at ok elevation. But had nothing added to it at all. I have no idea how much weight all the mods have add but I would guess it has to be close to 500lbs
 
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Russ989

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That’s why I went from the first pic to the second one.

14C8D77E 61BD 4FA8 B02F 278085AB6FE7

2DCED978 3692 4824 9CFF 70D0BFEF5BFA
 
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caverat

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  1. 700-2
With out a doubt, this is the most informative post I've read. Using reverse gear was first used back in the Ford Model A & T days! 👍
My 2012 Ram still goes up hill better backward than forward LOL
 
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DG Rider

DG Rider

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When I first bought it in November It ran at ok elevation. But had nothing added to it at all. I have no idea how much weight all the mods have add but I would guess it has to be close to 500lbs
Yeah...forgot about all that. That's a big factor.
 
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