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P1000 Honda Water Ingestion Fix

Discussion in 'Pioneer 1000 Shop Talk' started by HondaTech, May 15, 2017.

  1. truc577

    truc577 Well-Known Member
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    Well now I have to try to get my dealer to install this air intake fix! I put a deposit down but I am waiting to finish the deal because the dealer is waiting on the roof, windshield and several other accessories to come in. I hate it when there is a problem and corporate wont fix a very bad issue on early models. I can already hear the salesman saying we can but there will be a charge. Then Ill get pissed and want to go elsewhere and he'll screw me on my 500 deposit.
     
  2. Eltobgi

    Eltobgi Well-Known Member
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    Yup! But it's not a true fix, just makes the condition a little better! Snorkle it and sleep soundly!
     
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  3. truc577

    truc577 Well-Known Member
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    I have been trying to take in all the info on snokel mods and intake fixes. I am previously a Polaris 900 owner and after tons of research decided to go with the solid reliability of a Honda (I did have a 400 EX back in da day). So I apologize for the ton of questions I may have in the near future when I actually get the Pioneer in my shop. SOOOO does anyone have a minimally invasive intake fixes? I like hondasxs' set up, but I can not find it in the threads again.
     
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  4. GlockMeister

    GlockMeister The Bearded Wonder
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    Here ya go.
    Stealth Snorkel Examples - Honda Pioneer 1000
     
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  5. JACKAL

    JACKAL Ancient Guru
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    OK cleaned up thread back to the topic of the P1K it's intake location and options of preventing water ingestion.

    Now, many have gone the route of successfully snorkeling starting at the OEM location up front, as discussed in detail here:
    Stealth Snorkel Examples - Honda Pioneer 1000

    I have looked at this and looked at this, and literal spent dozens of hours thinking about how to resolve the ingestion issue, while not making an obvious snorkel AND getting rid of the ridiculously long intake tubing that goes down along the bottom just begging to store water to begin with. Snorkel or not any water gets in there it will sit in that low tube until it evaporates or get sucked into the intake. This can be from casual riding to getting into the creek that was juuust a bit deeper than anticipated.

    As with anything, there is a cause and effect for making changes. I get why Honda designed it this way, first it moves the primary intake away from heat and dust swirling near the engine, as an additional benefit greatly reduces the noise on the intake under hard throttle. But what if we can keep the same intake height or a little higher than OEM, eliminate that long intake tube just begging to hold water at the expense of a little intake noise and maybe more frequent air filter servicing. A picture is worth a thousand words so look and theses and seriously think about why cant you come off the lower right airbox where the tube attaches. I know it's tight in there but I am determined to come up with something.

    First a look at the intake overview, imagine yourself trying to breath while running through a 6ft garden hose, Honda mitigates some of the suction by using the dead air chambers in the lower tube.

    P1K Intake overview.jpg

    And a close up view of the engine & Intake from the passenger side arrow noting where the intake attaches to the airbox. remove everything going forward from the arrow.

    P1K Intake Detail Right Side.jpg

    Now a view from the drivers side. How about crossing over just in front of the head below the airbox then up the left side of it. (The path of yellow line) This would get intake away from hot exhaust and maybe get it up to the top of the bed rail behind drivers seat. I don't even intend to get it so deep my butt gets wet while driving so getting it a foot above that should be pretty safe. May put a cleanable foam pre-filter there, this would be in the way for any mid panel etc. and the fit between bed and seat back is tight. With a bit of work I think this is doable. Yes you will get some noise from the intake under throttle, but the rest of the powertrain is making its own noise as well. Possibly even go down across the sub-transmission then up near the drivers side, there is all kinds of space there, the trick is getting back to OEM the elevation at the top of the bed level and how tight everything resides in that area without getting into a bunch of cutting etc.
    P1K Intake L side.jpg

    So any serious thoughts or idea discussion on this, I am determined to effort out a solution on my next machine, likely a 2018 P1K5 LE for the family machine.
     
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  6. JACKAL

    JACKAL Ancient Guru
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    Thinking about this going back to the racing days of eliminating all this from a TRX250R which also had an incredible long intake tube for what it was.

    On the P1K remove the OEM tube, block off and seal that lower right hole, remove the OEM air filter and replace it with one or two K&N or TWINAIR foam filters and ventilate the airbox lid on the front or top. This location is protected from splashing and is about 8" above the seat bottom. It would get dirty and require frequent service but eliminate water sitting in a tube waiting to be sucked in from a straw.
     
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  7. snuffnwhisky

    snuffnwhisky Village Idiot
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    I done the filter out of the top of the lid. Was too loud. I've got pvc that I thought about running up to the roof and back a little to help with the noise. Might try an insulated box around what I have now also. With my cage shoulder bar being straight, it made it easier.

    IMG_20161210_211700413.jpg
    IMG_20170307_202817278.jpg
     
    #47 snuffnwhisky, May 25, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  8. chadbo

    chadbo Mama Tried
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    Well I just did the eBay snorkel with extended hose and foam filter to roof, but snuff with a much better go at it
     
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  9. Crow_Hunter

    Crow_Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Those "dead air chambers" are actually what are called "tuners" they are "echo chambers" to help mitigate the intake noise coming back up out of the intake manifold. They interfere with the pressure waves coming out of the engine and make it much quieter. Most vehicles have them in their intake ductwork.
     
  10. bigdeal

    bigdeal Active Member

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    Snuff did you leave the orginal fillter in there? also did you close off the old intake?
     
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  11. snuffnwhisky

    snuffnwhisky Village Idiot
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    Capped the bottom inlet and removed the stock filter. Stock filter would not help unless the plug was leaking at bottom.
     
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  12. bigdeal

    bigdeal Active Member

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  13. bigdeal

    bigdeal Active Member

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    Thats what i was thinking. I have been wanting to do something like this too! Like that you could just take the whole air filter box out and start new. Just a box or y-pipe to intake?
     
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  14. JACKAL

    JACKAL Ancient Guru
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    That is almost exactly like I am thinking. That user hasn't logged in for over 35 weeks. Don't know If we will get a reply. But that is 90% of what I am thinking about.
     
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  15. ohanacreek

    ohanacreek Jack of all trades, Master of none.
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    But imagine it's a fire hose it'd be a LOT easier to breathe... if it's sized correctly it mitigates the issue of length.

    I was cleaning the air filter on my 700 about every 100 miles. I've checked the 1000 and it was slightly discolored after @300.

    Location is better, and if y'all didn't drown one after a creek run the last two years I don't see the issue with it being down low.

    I still think the @joeymt33 snorkle through the hood is the easiest cleanest cheapest quickest to hide from dealer option out there.

    Also has a nice growl to it when you push the go pedal to where it's meant to be.
     
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  16. snuffnwhisky

    snuffnwhisky Village Idiot
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    Other things to consider:

    (2) 44mm throttle bodies is 4.71 sq. in.

    (1) 2" Pipe Sch 40 = 3.36 sq. in.
    (1) 2.5" Pipe Sch 40 = 4.79 sq. in.
    (1) 3" Pipe Sch 40 = 5.46 sq. in.

    Pretty sure the stock under hood opening is about 6.27 sq. in.
     
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  17. Delton

    Delton Honda Fanboy
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    Heres something to put your mind at ease. Took my cover off after 1800 miles and countless water excursions. Absolutely no sign of water intrusion. Ever. I got pics of all the crap the stock filter stopped in my build thread. I'm sticking with stock filter after seeing how spotless it was on top of the filter cover.
    IMG_20170525_140655468-1336x752.jpg
    Check out the surrounding area with all it's mud and filth. And the showroom new area leading to the throttle bodies.
     
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  18. JACKAL

    JACKAL Ancient Guru
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    And I agree with simple, effective, and reversable methods.

    @Delton I also agree with keeping stock filter setup.

    However for the same reason you don't store dry goods directly on a concrete floor but up on a palette, I don't believe the intake tube should lay along the bottom of the frame begging to become a water column under tho wrong circumstances. Such as sticks or sharp rocks, it only takes once for a $9000 repair on a $15000 machine.
     
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  19. snuffnwhisky

    snuffnwhisky Village Idiot
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    1 stick could spell disaster.
     
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  20. joeymt33

    joeymt33 I'm scared of mud
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    They also say those chambers smooth out air flow as there can be disturbances in air flow from the valves opening and closing. I'm no professional though, I just looked it up one day and posted on the forum but can't find it now.

    I chose to leave mine.
     

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