J
JTW
Guest
I have an 07 Rubicon and you can take off in first with no gas. Go to low and it's a beast!
- Status
ohanacreek
My EcoBoost has I4WD
Moderator
Lifetime Member
Different machines different gearing, different uses. I just used a Samurai because they're a common off-road machine like a Jeep. First two names that popped in my head.
Point I was trying to make was about manual transmissions with clutches. Even if it's a Computer controlled DCT, still has to be driven like a manual trans vehicle. Not saying that is THE problem. It could be A problem, a contributing factor, in some un-estimable percent of the 3% that have had issues.
Sensors, bad grounds, poor cooling oil flow, take a guess at what the issue is that caused the rest of the 3%.
I think that we could beat this dead horse until their is peace in the Middle East, but the only way we will ever know for sure what the problem(s) is(are) is if Honda releases a statement/recall. So far that hasn't happened, another discussion that could turn into a equine beating.
I am fairly sure they have heard the displeasure coming from so many of the Honda faithful. There are a few thousand members on the forum, not all of them post and I would wager one or two of those might be Honda employees, I'll wager they are also on other manufacturers forums as well learning everything that can, can't say one way or the other for sure but it would make sense. I got on the other forums before I made a purchase, I'll bet they learned about all the competitors issues then adapted designs.
S
so on your statement that this is a manual transmission that is computer controller not an automatic.... ummmmm so its an automatic.
but anyway all smartass comments aside. the problem is that it does not have a fluid coupling. these wet clutch packs are made to be either engaged or not engaged. no slipping, unlike a true manual trans that the dry clutch and pressure plate are expected to slip for engagement. its a tricky game they are playing with being disengaged sitting at idle and then coming off idle and engaging the clutches just at the right point so as not to stall the engine but to catch the rising rpm and power output at just the right spot. why mudders with big tires are having so many issues is that it takes more effort to get into that rpm range where full engagement takes place. so the engine struggles with getting up and the clutch is chattering and slipping as it hasn't reached that full engagement point. the IGR will take off some of the strain, but in the end this trans needs a fluid coupling for takeoff so that as the engine starts to make power the clutches can keep full engagement as the converter slips.
i had a big red 700 and beat the dog piss out of it. back bumpers and hit it wide open snatching on stuck full size trucks. stuck in peanut butter gumbo mud, tires barely turning and pedal mashed out to the floor. but it was a honda and never frikken ever let me down. if i could get into it i could get out of it. only stuck a handful of times. most it would do is get hot from that torque converter putting in work. if they had put that in the 1000 we wouldnt be having this conversation and the pioneer 1000 would have a much better reputation.
but anyway all smartass comments aside. the problem is that it does not have a fluid coupling. these wet clutch packs are made to be either engaged or not engaged. no slipping, unlike a true manual trans that the dry clutch and pressure plate are expected to slip for engagement. its a tricky game they are playing with being disengaged sitting at idle and then coming off idle and engaging the clutches just at the right point so as not to stall the engine but to catch the rising rpm and power output at just the right spot. why mudders with big tires are having so many issues is that it takes more effort to get into that rpm range where full engagement takes place. so the engine struggles with getting up and the clutch is chattering and slipping as it hasn't reached that full engagement point. the IGR will take off some of the strain, but in the end this trans needs a fluid coupling for takeoff so that as the engine starts to make power the clutches can keep full engagement as the converter slips.
i had a big red 700 and beat the dog piss out of it. back bumpers and hit it wide open snatching on stuck full size trucks. stuck in peanut butter gumbo mud, tires barely turning and pedal mashed out to the floor. but it was a honda and never frikken ever let me down. if i could get into it i could get out of it. only stuck a handful of times. most it would do is get hot from that torque converter putting in work. if they had put that in the 1000 we wouldnt be having this conversation and the pioneer 1000 would have a much better reputation.
ohanacreek
My EcoBoost has I4WD
Moderator
Lifetime Member
Agree with the first half, I was dumbing it down too much.
Fluid coupling has its downsides too. I personally don't like auto transmissions or CVTs. You lose that connection, there is a skill to driving a manual. "To me" the point of the DCT to to dumb it down enough a larger portion of the population can benefit from a clutch even if they can't use it manually(third pedal).
I did not like the torque converter on my 700 because sometimes all it would do is "slip" it didn't have the power to lock it up, you couldn't blip the throttle to get it to give that slight extra bit of momentary torque and spin the tires just enough to climb an obstacle (gearing was a bit too high should have been a 4-5 speed,(again beating dead horse)) the torque converter ironically didn't convert the torque into motion as instantaneously because of the nature of the fluid connection as a locked clutch would.
I pulled over 300 - whole 40' pine trees with my 700, I could not put tension on the chain and pull them, I had to have enough room to get the wheels moving and then spinning or it would bog down and stop in its tracks. Too much and it'd jar the hell out of me and sometimes just sit and spin, too little and I had to try again. But in the middle it worked like a charm.
To each there own, different vehicles have different motors, tires, intended uses, and that's another reason there's not one transmission to transmit power for all vehicles.
I also hate driving a 1 ton manual in traffic, wouldn't want a true manual or automatic on track day(DCT with paddles is where it's at)
Transmission tech has come a LONG way in production vehicles in the last 15-20 years.
Last edited:
I think the moral of the story is... just hit it with some speed!
AKRider
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Club Contributor
Unbelievable, 15 pages of why the clutches are burning up even with "IGR".....And its because he had "Low voltage to oil sending unit"!!!!
You read these forums and either wanna spend more money on your Pioneer, OR you read these forums and wait for something to fail cause it happened to someone else....
PioneerPete
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
hahahaha... good luck with that!
PioneerPete
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
it's probably pretty close by my estimation, having followed this mess since the first time it was posted here. the folks in the know can't or won't share how many p1k users are on this forum, but I've seen information on here appearing to indicate dealers who've sold ~100 units had about 4 come back in for clutches. I've seen at least 20 on here with about 3 or 4 repeat failures.
Plumber32
Go ride!
Lifetime Member
Club Contributor
I'll bet if you could take the little screen or filter out it would solve alot of problems. Just like a aerator on your kitchen faucet. Restricted flow. And when it's dirty the flow is bad. When I turn the water on to a new house you wouldn't believe the wood chips, solder what have you gets stuck in there. Same could easily be the case with that filter getting plugged up.
PioneerPete
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
that's about what I've always figured... take that number and add to it the guys who just don't know how to 4wheel with a manual tranny and the guys who put 32+" tires with no gear reduction, and that' s probably about the number we've seen. I wonder if some of the repeats are just cases of not getting all the milling debris or clutch plate debris out on the first clutch replacement.
who knows... all just cogitation with no visible leadership on the issue from Honda.
A false reading could cause limp mode but would not burn up clutches lol. What a joke
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Eltobgi
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Club Contributor
AKRider
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Club Contributor
He's not saying the clutches were burnt. He's saying that he falsely made that accusation because he was drunk and pissed.
ohanacreek
My EcoBoost has I4WD
Moderator
Lifetime Member
But what's downstream of that screen that you can clean crap out of for $6?
Legitimately asking, cause I don't know.
Going with your analogy we had to replace two faucets(builder warranty) because of crap in the well line that wasn't filtered.
Plumber32
Go ride!
Lifetime Member
Club Contributor
The drain. If the aerator was off the faucet more than likely the faucet wouldn't plug and it would come out the spout. When I first fire up a water system I go with the tub first because it's not restricted. And most crap goes right down the drain. In the case of this motor I don't think very small debris would harm the clutch much if at all. Or just have a filter on the exit. After the clutches have been fed.
PioneerPete
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Plumber32
Go ride!
Lifetime Member
Club Contributor
He might be lying too. He could of cooked it. Said what he said . Recieved a ton of flack for the bad publicity. And retracted his story. Guess we will see if he's still trying to sell it.
- Status
Similar threads
P1000
Gear Reduction
- brianwilliams15
- Pioneer 1000 Accessories and Modifications
P1000m5
Transmission Not Engaging
- Traderquinn
- Pioneer 1000 Accessories and Modifications