P1000 Internal Gear Reduction not saving clutches

[popeye]

I don't have a tape measure but I can fold mine in half to get you all 8 inches!

Realy? Could sworn you said this guy was more hung than you?

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[Admin]

 

[JTW]

I was talking about my feet and folding my toes over you damned pervert!! But way to get a guy down on himself!

 

[ohanacreek]

I've been watching this clutch thing since the very first failure... most of them involve reversing up a steep hill and not being able to go fast enough to keep the clutches engaged. others get their wheels bound up in deep mud or against a rock or something and sit there and burn theirs up bc they don't know any better, or want to win the pecker measuring contest at the local mud hole...

I think some are considering the DCT automatic transmission with a fluid link(torque converter). It's not it's a manual transmission that is computer controlled.

Bury a Jeep or Samurai and keep trying to spin those tires, or turn it around on a hill slipping that clutch until it glows, then tell me how long the clutch lasts.

 

[ohanacreek]

Now we have peckers involved, ok, who has the tape measure? LOL

Just stand at the back of the end zone.

 

[ghost]

I think some are considering the DCT automatic transmission with a fluid link(torque converter). It's not it's a manual transmission that is computer controlled.

Bury a Jeep or Samurai and keep trying to spin those tires, or turn it around on a hill slipping that clutch until it glows, then tell me how long the clutch lasts.

True - but I should be able to back up a hill without tearing up the earth.

 

[ghost]

I'm not doing any of that stuff. Mine go every 3-400 now. Weird. Been easy the last few sets. Does the 500 have problems with it under 500 miles?


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When your clutches go, is it sudden or do they slowly start slipping?

 

[ohanacreek]

True - but I should be able to back up a hill without tearing up the earth.

That's debatable, it has turf mode but "I" would not consider it a pre-requisite for the type of machine it is. It's not a golfcart (my previous HOA told me as such, PREVIOUS)

Everything has limitations, I'm a Honda fan, but a manual transmission does have the limitation of overheating a clutch if it's used improperly, or outside of it's designed use.

50% of the guys I've ridden with from the forum USE their machines beyond what's suggested in the owners manual.

Over sized tires, 500lbs in accessories, etc...
Fjording creeks, 6000lb trailers, skidding hundreds of 40' pine trees(that paragraph was just me)

The fact that the complaints section amounts to 3% of the owners says something, the fact that the owners are ANGRY, over such a low failure rate. Shows just how high Honda has set their own bar.

Go over the the Polaris forums.
Failures are just par for the course and are accepted, an entire aftermarket has grown up around preventing the KNOWN failures and limitations. They placed a stop sale and RIDE because of the imminent fire hazard.

I am about to buy a 16' and it is an informed decision. I really want the LE but it's a premium I don't want to pay over a new previous yr model with a extended warranty.

I'm not arguing for or against, I'm saying step back look at the big picture based on what it's designed to do, what you're going to use it for, what you think you can convince a dealer you use it for, and make an informed decision. There are a few (WITH REASON, I'd be angry too) very squeaky wheels.

 

[Eltobgi]

Mine just went! I stopped for traffic and accelerated with engine reving and no movement. Increased rpm and it grabbed and was jerky and slipping on the ride home

 

[CumminsPusher]

When your clutches go, is it sudden or do they slowly start slipping?

Tough to explain I guess. I'm pretty good at knowing when they are getting close probably up to 20 miles but it's very slight difference I definitely wouldn't have felt it the first time. From then on I really baby it because it doesn't take squat to kill them. The last time they went backing out of my work area into 10 inches of powder.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I'm not doing any of that bad stuff. Mine go every 3-400 now. Weird. Been easy the last few sets. Does the 500 have problems with it under 500 miles?


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Since you are quite mechanically minded and skilled, can you/have you verified that your oil cooler is working properly? I have a theory that the problem isn't a clamping force/oil pressure/clutch material problem but it is a clutch overheating/delamination problem. There is an oil cooler on the P1000 but it doesn't look like a radiator as I was expecting, so I don't really know for sure how it works but I bet you could figure it out.

Maybe that is why it happens instead of it being a clutch problem. There is really no mention of clutch problems on the other forums where Honda uses the this design.

ETA: Or it could be some other auxillary or tertiary system that influences it. Like something in the oil pump or maybe a bit of slag or trash that is partially blocking the oil flow in just some machines.

 

[ghost]

Go over the the Polaris forums.
Failures are just par for the course and are accepted, an entire aftermarket has grown up around preventing the KNOWN failures and limitations.

Yup - exactly why I bought a honda.
It's unfortunate there are a couple threads like this now.
If I had to do it all over I'd buy one again - but with a little less conviction than I had last year.

 

[lee]

I don't have a tape measure but I can fold mine in half to get you all 8 inches!

@JTW you seam to take a ribbing pretty good, in that light:

There is a fine line between having the biggest dick and being the biggest dick.

(@joeymt33 good enough to make your quote line?)

 

[Mpmitch1]

The dealer I go to is the second largest in the nation, so I talked to the service manager and told him about people on here worried about clutches going out. He couldn't understand why people worry about them, I asked him howmany they have worked on,he said probably 3 or 4 since the p1k came out, and they sell a lot of p1k at that dealer. Then I asked him about warranty on the clutch he told me that if they come in it is all a case by case basis, and the ones that they fixed were all covered by warranty. Then I asked him what else has he seen come in for service on the p1k, he said they have worked on several with water injestion from people trying to go through too deep of water.

Lake hill motors in corinth ms?

 

[CumminsPusher]

Since you are quite mechanically minded and skilled, can you/have you verified that your oil cooler is working properly? I have a theory that the problem isn't a clamping force/oil pressure/clutch material problem but it is a clutch overheating/delamination problem. There is an oil cooler on the P1000 but it doesn't look like a radiator as I was expecting, so I don't really know for sure how it works but I bet you could figure it out.

Maybe that is why it happens instead of it being a clutch problem. There is really no mention of clutch problems on the other forums where Honda uses the this design.

ETA: Or it could be some other auxillary or tertiary system that influences it. Like something in the oil pump or maybe a bit of slag or trash that is partially blocking the oil flow in just some machines.

I've been through it a bit. It's always felt soft. It just doesn't clamp as well as it should. I'm the frustrated 3 percent. I'll probably go through a brand new set at the Takeover riding alongside whomever is saying I'm driving it wrong.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

To add to my previous post. This is a wet clutch system. It is designed to slip. It has to when the engine RPM and the gear ratio don't match the wheel RPM, otherwise it would break something.

It is part of it's operation.

Therefore, it has to have some means of getting the heat generated by converting kinetic energy into thermal energy out of the joint to prevent it from overheating the clutch material and causing the binder to fail and all the little friction bits to fall off.

Since it is an enclosed wet clutch, the oil has to be what is used to "carry" the heat away from the joint. If something is either impeding the flow of the oil or preventing or restricting the heat transfer from the oil cooler it could cause this problem.

Maybe that is what the oil relief valve chamfers help? Maybe something is wrong with people's oil coolers or air is being restricted by something like snow/mud build up or even putting down the reflective tape that some have used preventing the heat transfer needed for the system and the oil temp is allowed to get above the critical point?

Depending on the binder used it might not take much of a restriction or even just a shift in the mean temperature of the entire oil system by a few degrees that would be enough to cause the heat right at that clutch interface to be in the danger zone for too long even though the overall oil temperature isn't at the critical point.

Just a hypothesis.

 

[JTW]

@JTW you seam to take a ribbing pretty good, in that light:

There is a fine line between having the biggest dick and being the biggest dick.

(@joeymt33 good enough to make your quote line?)

Well... I can assure you I hold the title of king dingaling! But in the second category.. the first I come in like a scared crab!

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm out guys. Sorry for being frustrated and dealing. There's a reason I've so busy working on it keeping my mind off of it. This is my nightly view from my living room seat as it sits in a heated room I built for it. I'm damn frustrated but I truly love this machine. I've said enough I'm not going to continue.
I'm sure a fix will come and she'll be good I have faith. It's still a Honda!


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[Ridem32]

I'm not sure why some say oil temp heat causing this problem. Our machines have a EOT ENGINE OIL TEMP SENSOR ON THE CLUTCH COVER. See pic if the oil temp got or gets to high we would know it.


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[popeye]

I'm out guys. Sorry for being frustrated and dealing. There's a reason I've so busy working on it keeping my mind off of it. This is my nightly view from my living room seat as it sits in a heated room I built for it. I'm damn frustrated but I truly love this machine. I've said enough I'm not going to continue.
I'm sure a fix will come and she'll be good I have faith. It's still a Honda!


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Quite the view you have there cp

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[ohanacreek]

I'm not sure why some say oil temp heat causing this problem. Our machines have a EOT ENGINE OIL TEMP SENSOR ON THE CLUTCH COVER. See pic if the oil temp got or gets to high we would know it.


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Viscosity of different oils is different at different temps, it's based on viscosity/temp curve of oil spec'd in manual.