P1000 Internal Gear Reduction not saving clutches

[1BadDart]

There is obviously a clutch problem on some machines. But how does it get fixed? We have to figure out what is causing it. There are going to be common denominators in the majority of failures. First IMO you throw out the extremes, perhaps stuff like being bogged down in the mud and rocking the machine back and forth to try to get out, trying to back up a steep creek bank or slowly backing a heavily loaded trailer. Once the extremes are removed what do all the problem machines have in common? Is the oil pressure on the clutch low at lower rpms preventing the clutch from fully engaging? Is it a problem with the clutch it's self? And many other potential causes.

Did the member here who's dealer radius/ported his relief valves ever post his service managers name and contact info? It would interesting to know how they arrived at the conclusion that the relief valve was the problem.

It seems that Honda is content with replacing (some) clutches at this time, but that doesn't fix the issues that some are experiencing. Hopefully it's not one of those deals where they are merely band-aiding the problem until the warranty goes out and then they wash their hands of it.

 

[Admin]

 

[Plumber32]

Could some of the motor castings be outsourced. To keep up with demand? And the ones from factory "b" are the issues with holes being too small for sufficient oil flow. Could they have a warehouse full of engine parts that are in no particular order and no way of tracking down bad cast. If that is the problem. It sure seems sporadic. Just a thought.

 

[JACKAL]

The dealer I go to is the second largest in the nation, so I talked to the service manager. I asked him what else has he seen come in for service on the p1k, he said they have worked on several with water injestion from people trying to go through too deep of water.

Yeah, I will never get that. I can see crossing creeks in trail systems etc. But trying to run in water / mud up to and deeper than headlights? Just buy a dang jon boat save your self the trouble. Those guys that think going deep gives them a bigger sac would be a lot of money ( and frustration ) ahead just taking longer showers.

 

[JACKAL]

maybe if this source, or Honda were more forthcoming with information, there wouldn't be so many uninformed opinions being passed around.
I asked if you thought the 17 would be more reliable, you said yes. I asked why, you said nothing.

Those that know don't talk, those that talk don't know. Mainly because if they do talk they get cut off from any information. Knowledge is power, I prefer to keep what little I have, as it ain't much just enough to make informed decisions.

I try to help and answer people's questions and concerns as much as possible. There will be a point to in time when more can be elaborated on, but not yet. I've been riding Hondas nearly 45 years and have never been let down, sure there are hiccups in the road but they have always been addressed, often silently but corrected nonetheless. The problems today is expectations of instant gratification, sorry to say it is more complex than that for that expectation to be fulfilled.

To those sitting on the sidelines wondering whether to buy or not look at it this way. People buy powerball lottery tickets with a 1 in 292 million chance in winning. Buying a P1K you have a 97% chance at winning, zero issues. That's pretty good odds better than nearly all the competition odds of having problems.

In the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that."

 

[Ridem32]

Those that know don't talk, those that talk don't know. Mainly because if they do talk they get cut off from any information. Knowledge is power, I prefer to keep what little I have, as it ain't much just enough to make informed decisions.

I try to help and answer people's questions and concerns as much as possible. There will be a point to in time when more can be elaborated on, but not yet. I've been riding Hondas nearly 45 years and have never been let down, sure there are hiccups in the road but they have always been addressed, often silently but corrected nonetheless. The problems today is expectations of instant gratification, sorry to say it is more complex than that for that expectation to be fulfilled.

To those sitting on the sidelines wondering whether to buy or not look at it this way. People buy powerball lottery tickets with a 1 in 292 million chance in winning. Buying a P1K you have a 97% chance at winning, zero issues. That's pretty good odds better than nearly all the competition odds of having problems.

In the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that."

lol sounds like you won the lottery. You say you went thru 2 clutches and broke axle. Now you say 97% of getting a good PK1. So you got bit now going back for another bite buying 2 more new models lol. Why don't you buy a left over 16 model at the great discount price? It's a 97% chance that you will get one that want burn up clutches


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[walexa07]

Yeah, I will never get that. I can see crossing creeks in trail systems etc. But trying to run in water / mud up to and deeper than headlights? Just buy a dang jon boat save your self the trouble. Those guys that think going deep gives them a bigger sac would be a lot of money ( and frustration ) ahead just taking longer showers.

I used to be in that group that liked to do that kind of stuff, but not anymore. I'm totally fine with and understand the fascination of being able to conquer a mudhole that's challenging, and if someone has pockets deep enough to keep rigs going in that kind of service, I am more than happy for them and find that it can be entertaining to watch. But like I said, it's not for me any more - I just want to cruise with the family. Different strokes for different folks is what I say!

Waylan

 

[JTW]

As long as Honda takes care of the 3%.. I have no problem. But if a few years down the road half of the 97% start having the issues the 3% had... well that's another story! We all knew and expected that there could be issues with first model years.. as long as they fix whatever it is and don't try to screw people over with the issues if or when it comes along. Customers should be satisfied with that.. that's much of why I bought a Honda.

 

[walexa07]

To those sitting on the sidelines wondering whether to buy or not look at it this way. People buy powerball lottery tickets with a 1 in 292 million chance in winning. Buying a P1K you have a 97% chance at winning, zero issues. That's pretty good odds better than nearly all the competition odds of having problems.

But a powerball ticket only costs $5, not $15k to $20k. Honda has built their powersports reputation on reliability, and there is not another Honda model that I'm aware of that has had this type of drivetrain issue. All of Honda's past ATVs/UTVs have had some form of clutch(es) that are designed to slip/wear yet you can get 20 years of service without issue, even with hard use/abuse.

I'm just ready for there to be an answer regarding what the problem is and what the fix is - even if I had to pay $1K out of my pocket to fix this, I would feel at ease.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not fretting over it nor buying an extended warranty, and I'm not going to baby mine. I'll use it like I want to, avoid hairy situations that I KNOW are definitely causing excessive slippage, and fix it or trade it if I begin to have continued problems.

Waylan

 

[CumminsPusher]

I don't have good luck with anything that's why I very rarely play the lotto. If there were a .5 percent I'd find it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PioneerPete]

There is obviously a clutch problem on some machines. But how does it get fixed? We have to figure out what is causing it. There are going to be common denominators in the majority of failures. First IMO you throw out the extremes, perhaps stuff like being bogged down in the mud and rocking the machine back and forth to try to get out, trying to back up a steep creek bank or slowly backing a heavily loaded trailer. Once the extremes are removed what do all the problem machines have in common? Is the oil pressure on the clutch low at lower rpms preventing the clutch from fully engaging? Is it a problem with the clutch it's self? And many other potential causes.

Did the member here who's dealer radius/ported his relief valves ever post his service managers name and contact info? It would interesting to know how they arrived at the conclusion that the relief valve was the problem.

It seems that Honda is content with replacing (some) clutches at this time, but that doesn't fix the issues that some are experiencing. Hopefully it's not one of those deals where they are merely band-aiding the problem until the warranty goes out and then they wash their hands of it.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I would think if you throw out all the "extremes" you listed, almost all clutch issues would go away...lol

 

[Ca51flatty]

Those that know don't talk, those that talk don't know. Mainly because if they do talk they get cut off from any information. Knowledge is power, I prefer to keep what little I have, as it ain't much just enough to make informed decisions.

I try to help and answer people's questions and concerns as much as possible. There will be a point to in time when more can be elaborated on, but not yet. I've been riding Hondas nearly 45 years and have never been let down, sure there are hiccups in the road but they have always been addressed, often silently but corrected nonetheless. The problems today is expectations of instant gratification, sorry to say it is more complex than that for that expectation to be fulfilled.

To those sitting on the sidelines wondering whether to buy or not look at it this way. People buy powerball lottery tickets with a 1 in 292 million chance in winning. Buying a P1K you have a 97% chance at winning, zero issues. That's pretty good odds better than nearly all the competition odds of having problems.

In the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that."

So, back to the original topic of the Gear reduction for a second. Is the general opinion that it does not help the vehicle work better or make up some for larger more aggressive tires? I don't want to discuss Mud for this second. Just a general reduction, is better or not so much. By the 12 pages of this thread and other clutch related threads this topic is sensitive. For me, mine has worked flawlessly but I want to run a 30 or 32" tire (currently running a 30) but want to make up for this loss in final ratio with the gear reduction.

 

[PioneerPete]

Those that know don't talk, those that talk don't know. Mainly because if they do talk they get cut off from any information. Knowledge is power, I prefer to keep what little I have, as it ain't much just enough to make informed decisions.

I try to help and answer people's questions and concerns as much as possible. There will be a point to in time when more can be elaborated on, but not yet. I've been riding Hondas nearly 45 years and have never been let down, sure there are hiccups in the road but they have always been addressed, often silently but corrected nonetheless. The problems today is expectations of instant gratification, sorry to say it is more complex than that for that expectation to be fulfilled.

To those sitting on the sidelines wondering whether to buy or not look at it this way. People buy powerball lottery tickets with a 1 in 292 million chance in winning. Buying a P1K you have a 97% chance at winning, zero issues. That's pretty good odds better than nearly all the competition odds of having problems.

In the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that."

thanks for sharing more detail... I understand and respect your stance on the shared information. I figured that all along, but hoped you might share if I b****ed enough...
it just gets old sometimes feeling like I'm babying it waiting until the problem is understood and I'm sure it can be corrected the first time. and I do have to baby mine... as you may recall when this all started, I almost burnt mine on the maiden voyage trying to turn around in a tight spot and having to back up a steep hill.
anywho, the available information seems to say that the guy in the know felt compelled to cash in his 16 and get a 17 to improve clutch reliability. I'm sure its not quite that simple, and there are more factors in such a big decision... and I've been wrong before, but if they fixed it on the 17s and aren't telling us to "save face" (I've spent time there), I'm gonna be double pissed.

 

[PioneerPete]

So, back to the original topic of the Gear reduction for a second. Is the general opinion that it does not help the vehicle work better or make up some for larger more aggressive tires? I don't want to discuss Mud for this second. Just a general reduction, is better or not so much. By the 12 pages of this thread and other clutch related threads this topic is sensitive. For me, mine has worked flawlessly but I want to run a 30 or 32" tire (currently running a 30) but want to make up for this loss in final ratio with the gear reduction.

my understanding is the guy who burnt his after the igr had oversized tires (32 maybe?), so it didn't really provide much improvement in ratios for him. I would imagine it would help if you didn't go up too much in tire size.

 

[JACKAL]

my understanding is the guy who burnt his after the igr had oversized tires (32 maybe?), so it didn't really provide much improvement in ratios for him. I would imagine it would help if you didn't go up too much in tire size.

Well here is my standing, put in an IGR with machined cases, I guarantee you there would be no warranty honored regardless of tires size.

 

[PioneerPete]

Well here is my standing, put in an IGR with machined cases, I guarantee you there would be no warranty honored regardless of tires size.

well duh!lol

 

[1BadDart]

I agree with most of what you've said, but I would think if you throw out all the "extremes" you listed, almost all clutch issues would go away...lol

You may be right.

 

[PioneerPete]

You may be right.

I've been watching this clutch thing since the very first failure... most of them involve reversing up a steep hill and not being able to go fast enough to keep the clutches engaged. others get their wheels bound up in deep mud or against a rock or something and sit there and burn theirs up bc they don't know any better, or want to win the pecker measuring contest at the local mud hole...

 

[PioneerPete]

I've been watching this clutch thing since the very first failure... most of them involve reversing up a steep hill and not being able to go fast enough to keep the clutches engaged. others get their wheels bound up in deep mud or against a rock or something and sit there and burn theirs up bc they don't know any better, or want to win the pecker measuring contest at the local mud hole...

but hey, we all want to be able to reverse out of trouble... and we all want to win those contests at the local rock climb or mud hole too...

 

[1BadDart]

I've been watching this clutch thing since the very first failure... most of them involve reversing up a steep hill and not being able to go fast enough to keep the clutches engaged. others get their wheels bound up in deep mud or against a rock or something and sit there and burn theirs up bc they don't know any better, or want to win the pecker measuring contest at the local mud hole...

Now we have peckers involved, ok, who has the tape measure? LOL

 

[JTW]

Now we have peckers involved, ok, who has the tape measure? LOL

I don't have a tape measure but I can fold mine in half to get you all 8 inches!