P500 p5 suspension

[JWB]

are you going to put a switch to let the shocks see each other and be isolated depending on the terrain. i am going to try this mod if for no other reason than it is so inexpensive compared to a variable rate change up, that you can afford to bring spare shocks to install if one fails i am going to do the double up mod you have been talking about. the front looks fairly simple the back might have some clearance issues unless you move the upper mount to the outside of the frame. by the way what it the diameter of the upper side of the shock the gabriel specs dont say.

Yes, I'm going to make them isolated, or paired side to side with separate air valves, and I could, with the set up I'm building have all the shocks seeing each other- not sure if that would ever be an advantage.... I'm still waiting for all my tubing and fittings to show up, but I'll take pictures as I put it all together. If you're asking what the outside diameter of the actual shock is, I don't know, and everything is at the shop where I work, but I can tell you they are a lot smaller than the stockers, and way lighter. As far as mounting, I haven't actually started measuring yet, but for the upper mounts, I think I will carefully remove the existing mounts completely, and either buy, or fabricate a 'u' channel that will 'saddle' the frame rail, and weld my mounts to that. It just seems that it would be easier to get everything located exactly how I want it, and not risk weakening the frame If I screwed up the mounts and had to remove and re-weld a couple times. Screwing up is pretty normal for me....
EDIT 8/3/17 JWB- subsequently found that no welding was needed, and the shocks are a near 'bolt in'. See the remaining posts. Shocks need to be doubled on each wheel, as singles require too much pressure, and may fail quickly

 

[Admin]

 

[solrus]

Picked up the top shock mount brackets tonight , from the lazer shop. As soon as we get warmer temps in Ohio , I will get these welded on and mount the shocks.
View attachment 28519

This spring??

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[Chooglin]

This spring??

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I am hoping we get a few warmer days during Christmas break and I will do it then !

 

[Montecresto]

My flip phone doesn't do that

Lmao, I have the same problem JWB!

 

[bikeman]

Yes, I'm going to make them isolated, or paired side to side with separate air valves, and I could, with the set up I'm building have all the shocks seeing each other- not sure if that would ever be an advantage.... I'm still waiting for all my tubing and fittings to show up, but I'll take pictures as I put it all together. If you're asking what the outside diameter of the actual shock is, I don't know, and everything is at the shop where I work, but I can tell you they are a lot smaller than the stockers, and way lighter. As far as mounting, I haven't actually started measuring yet, but for the upper mounts, I think I will carefully remove the existing mounts completely, and either buy, or fabricate a 'u' channel that will 'saddle' the frame rail, and weld my mounts to that. It just seems that it would be easier to get everything located exactly how I want it, and not risk weakening the frame If I screwed up the mounts and had to remove and re-weld a couple times. Screwing up is pretty normal for me....

are you going to try to bolt the adapters to the frame so they could be removed if you had to go back to stock? on the bottoms i wonder if you can just put a spacer in the existing mount and install a long bolt that would go thru both shocks. and mount them outside the existing mount which would require very little fabrication, might have to move the brake line lower to clear the rear most shock. i am assuming that the load does not increase so a grade 8 bolt should support the load with out bending of course that does not apply to a hard bottoming out so additional support might need to be fabricated in the form a u that could be welded to the side of the existing mount out of thicker metal. i have not studied the rear axle to see what would be needed there yet.

 

[Montecresto]

Well I did some riding over an area where I took pics of the machine totally stock, and you can see plain as day the wheels lifting completely off the ground because the suspension is so stiff. Then the pictures (screen shots from video for now till I get new computer) of the new set-up where you can see the suspension working through it's full range of travel as I drive through deep ruts on the trail. So, after riding through that section of trail about 10x's I can tell you the ride is unbelievable. I looked at the videos we took as we rode the trail with the stock suspension, and I could see us getting bounced and jarred around, and for most of the time I was in 1st or 2nd gear- pretty much crawling. With the air shocks, we went up and down the trail comfortably-didn't scare the Princess- in 3rd and 4th gear. Of course not through the area that I took the pictures, but further up trail. I went through the deep ruts in the pictures in 1st gear. You can see it's fully compressing and extending the shocks, and if I went too fast, it would bang it. Keep in mind, the way it is right now, the shocks 'see' each other, so as one shock compresses, it pushes air into the other side driving it out- let's call it 'articulation mode' or 'crawler mode'. When the shocks are isolated, let's call it 'ride mode', they will be more resistant to compressing and will lose some articulation, but will be far more resistant to bottoming out. It now keeps all four wheels on the ground through that whole section of trail in the pics. Looking forward to showing you all the videos, it's just amazing to watch the difference as the machine goes through the same stretch of trail.View attachment 28286 View attachment 28287 View attachment 28288 View attachment 28288 View attachment 28290 View attachment 28289

How noticeable of a difference was this to the driver?

 

[JWB]

are you going to try to bolt the adapters to the frame so they could be removed if you had to go back to stock? on the bottoms i wonder if you can just put a spacer in the existing mount and install a long bolt that would go thru both shocks. and mount them outside the existing mount which would require very little fabrication, might have to move the brake line lower to clear the rear most shock. i am assuming that the load does not increase so a grade 8 bolt should support the load with out bending of course that does not apply to a hard bottoming out so additional support might need to be fabricated in the form a u that could be welded to the side of the existing mount out of thicker metal. i have not studied the rear axle to see what would be needed there yet.

No bolts- drilling holes will definitely weaken the frame. I'm gonna clamp the 'saddles' first and weld mounts to them, and once I'm confident that the positioning is good, I'll weld the saddles at several different points. I was thinking about the same as you on the A arm ends. I've been so busy at work this week, I haven't even cleaned the mud off the machine from my last ride, so I'm not much help at this point.

 

[JWB]

How noticeable of a difference was this to the driver?

It's a dramatic difference. It's so much smoother, the machine feels slow now. When driving up and out of the creek in the pictures, there is a completely different feeling when all four wheels are planted and providing traction. I could stop part way up the bank, and then continue without any wheel spin. If the P500 had a locking front diff. it wouldn't be such a big deal-( I REALLY wish someone would make one) but without it, it's critical to keep all four on the ground to get the most tractive effort from the P500. I can't think of any other way to meet that requirement other than some type of air suspension. There's a company that was making a system for the Rhino's, and I was ready to dish-out the $2700 for their system and then modify to fit the Rhino shocks, but that company says they are concentrating their efforts on motorcycle stuff now, but might in the future offer something for UTV's. So here we are! Did I mention that I really wish there was a front locker for this machine?

 

[Montecresto]

It's a dramatic difference. It's so much smoother, the machine feels slow now. When driving up and out of the creek in the pictures, there is a completely different feeling when all four wheels are planted and providing traction. I could stop part way up the bank, and then continue without any wheel spin. If the P500 had a locking front diff. it wouldn't be such a big deal-( I REALLY wish someone would make one) but without it, it's critical to keep all four on the ground to get the most tractive effort from the P500. I can't think of any other way to meet that requirement other than some type of air suspension. There's a company that was making a system for the Rhino's, and I was ready to dish-out the $2700 for their system and then modify to fit the Rhino shocks, but that company says they are concentrating their efforts on motorcycle stuff now, but might in the future offer something for UTV's. So here we are! Did I mention that I really wish there was a front locker for this machine?

So the corvette air shocks don't bolt right up. New brackets must be welded on is what I'm gathering?

 

[JWB]

So the corvette air shocks don't bolt right up. New brackets must be welded on is what I'm gathering?

They are very close to a straight swap if you do single front shocks only. Just a very minor bushing mod to the air shocks. The lower bushings are 5/8 diameter, so I stuffed a piece of hard rubber hose into the bushing so I could retain the stock bolt. My only issue with a single front shock set up, is that the air pressure needs to be more than 140 psi. 140 is working, and all the pictures I've posted have pressure at 140, but no real load on machine, and will bottom out easier than the stockers. The shocks are rated for 200, but a very small 200 psi compressor is $$$, and I don't feel comfortable having to run the air pressure near max all the time. That's why I'm doubling them.
EDIT: 8/3/17 no bracket mods or welding needed to double all four corners. These shocks need to be doubled, or they may fail quickly. JWB

 

[rocmar]

I measured the actual suspension travel today (front) with the air shocks. The Honda spec says 5.9 inches. I now have 11 inches of travel. I hope I get the same gain in the rear with no CV joint binding. l'll keep y'all up to date as I progress with this project.

Pics...bro

 

[Montecresto]

They are very close to a straight swap if you do single front shocks only. Just a very minor bushing mod to the air shocks. The lower bushings are 5/8 diameter, so I stuffed a piece of hard rubber hose into the bushing so I could retain the stock bolt. My only issue with a single front shock set up, is that the air pressure needs to be more than 140 psi. 140 is working, and all the pictures I've posted have pressure at 140, but no real load on machine, and will bottom out easier than the stockers. The shocks are rated for 200, but a very small 200 psi compressor is $$$, and I don't feel comfortable having to run the air pressure near max all the time. That's why I'm doubling them, and that will require modified brackets.

I see. Do you think that the travel will still be 11"? Are going to post detailed pictures of the bracket mod so that we can do this as well?

 

[pFive]

I have sen a lot of Harley bagger (and sportster) guys using these shocks and removing the HD air shocks with internal springs. If having a fail over spring is important you might check into some HD take offs from pretty much any bagger.

 

[Montecresto]

I have sen a lot of Harley bagger (and sportster) guys using these shocks and removing the HD air shocks with internal springs. If having a fail over spring is important you might check into some HD take offs from pretty much any bagger.

Could you elaborate on that pFive?

 

[pFive]

Could you elaborate on that pFive?

HD baggers (FLH, ultra classic etc..) run an air/oil shock on the rear, but manufacturers cant really run just air I guess, so the HD shock has a spring inside to prevent issues should air pressure go away. I am seeing riders on various forums change out to the straight air shocks for a more supple ride and tunability. But, the thing is the shocks they are shelving are going on craigslist pretty reasonable and may be worth a look to prevent the bottoming issue off road. Hell, a big bagger weighs 760 lbs + and those shocks could be perfect for this application. When I get in the shop in January I might get the tools out. They maybe too stiff...who knows?

There are a lot of threads, just google around. The deal is they can have a cheap way to drop the back and look cool and drag etc..
This uses the same shocks listed in this thread.
corvette air shocks on touring bikes


Another..
Homemade air ride



This may come up a bit short on stroke, but the price seems decent? Home

ww.skullycustoms.com/

 

[Montecresto]

HD baggers (FLH, ultra classic etc..) run an air/oil shock on the rear, but manufacturers cant really run just air I guess, so the HD shock has a spring inside to prevent issues should air pressure go away. I am seeing riders on various forums change out to the straight air shocks for a more supple ride and tunability. But, the thing is the shocks they are shelving are going on craigslist pretty reasonable and may be worth a look to prevent the bottoming issue off road. Hell, a big bagger weighs 760 lbs + and those shocks could be perfect for this application. When I get in the shop in January I might get the tools out. They maybe too stiff...who knows?

There are a lot of threads, just google around. The deal is they can have a cheap way to drop the back and look cool and drag etc..
This uses the same shocks listed in this thread.
corvette air shocks on touring bikes


Another..
Homemade air ride



This may come up a bit short on stroke, but the price seems decent? Home

ww.skullycustoms.com/

Thank you for that!

 

[bikeman]

No bolts- drilling holes will definitely weaken the frame. I'm gonna clamp the 'saddles' first and weld mounts to them, and once I'm confident that the positioning is good, I'll weld the saddles at several different points. I was thinking about the same as you on the A arm ends. I've been so busy at work this week, I haven't even cleaned the mud off the machine from my last ride, so I'm not much help at this point.

i read a forum on rhinos that was dated 2010. this guy added a monroe air shock to the side of his existing coil over on the back to level out his back end he talked about using the shock by itself like we are talking about. another guy commented that they would not hold up under intense desert riding. the guy said that he only road trails and that his riding was low speed so he thought they would hold up. i wonder if you still could get the articulation by adding the air shock . plus get ground clearance when you needed it buy pumping them up with an onboard compressor. all with out having to pump the shocks up to the high pressures you are having to do now by piggybacking them next to the oem coil overs. it would save on fabrication time and add reliability. or do you think it would mess up the ride quality

 

[Montecresto]

i read a forum on rhinos that was dated 2010. this guy added a monroe air shock to the side of his existing coil over on the back to level out his back end he talked about using the shock by itself like we are talking about. another guy commented that they would not hold up under intense desert riding. the guy said that he only road trails and that his riding was low speed so he thought they would hold up. i wonder if you still could get the articulation by adding the air shock . plus get ground clearance when you needed it buy pumping them up with an onboard compressor. all with out having to pump the shocks up to the high pressures you are having to do now by piggybacking them next to the oem coil overs. it would save on fabrication time and add reliability. or do you think it would mess up the ride quality

That's cool, some good ideas, the P5 has decent clearance already.

 

[JWB]

i read a forum on rhinos that was dated 2010. this guy added a monroe air shock to the side of his existing coil over on the back to level out his back end he talked about using the shock by itself like we are talking about. another guy commented that they would not hold up under intense desert riding. the guy said that he only road trails and that his riding was low speed so he thought they would hold up. i wonder if you still could get the articulation by adding the air shock . plus get ground clearance when you needed it buy pumping them up with an onboard compressor. all with out having to pump the shocks up to the high pressures you are having to do now by piggybacking them next to the oem coil overs. it would save on fabrication time and add reliability. or do you think it would mess up the ride quality

Yup, I read that one too, and I'll bet that they're going to work fine for what the rhino guy is doing. No, you can't get the same articulation with the stock shocks- they don't have as much stroke as the air shocks, and the amount of weight it takes to compress the stockers fully is crazy. When on the H.M. trails, I took mine up a double black-no utv's allowed trail (by mistake), and got to a point where the machine was teetering on the left rear, and right front wheels, and of course, with one front wheel off the ground, no front drive. So, with me- 240lbs, slid over to the passenger side, my nephew-175lbs, standing on the front bumper, and one of my buddies-290lbs standing on the passenger side hanging onto the cage, we still could not get the front suspension compressed to get the other wheel on the ground, so adding another shock/spring is not going to help. Again, the reason for doubling the hi-jackers is durability. I did find a company (Ride Tech) that makes an air shock designed specifically for UTV's, and have capacity to run single. As far as I can tell, they are about $800 each. That price might be per pair, but it sure looks like per shock on the web site....I can replace a bunch of blown up hi-jackers for that kind of $$$

 

[JWB]

I see. Do you think that the travel will still be 11"? Are going to post detailed pictures of the bracket mod so that we can do this as well?

Yes and yes. Still don't know if we can get that much travel in the rear yet without interference or CV binding- I just haven't had room in the shop, or time for that matter. I'm going to make steel filler bushings to fill that 5/8" hole in the gabriels tomorrow- instead of using the hard rubber hose that I installed for testing the shocks I have installed now.
EDIT: 8/3/17 Actual travel is 10" in the front, and 9" in the rear. JWB