P1000 running rough and back firing

[JoshBoom95]

Good afternoon,
So yesterday we took out the p3 1000 and it was do good for about 15mins before it sounds like we lost a cylinder. So we pulled the plugs and checked spark. Both are great and the plugs looked perfect. Put them back in and the same. Idle goes way down to 3 or 4 hundred then back up to normal and then when you give it gas sounds like it's having a super hard time and it's running super rich, but while your holding the gas steady at say 3000 it will clear up and run fine for a second then go back to running rough. If you floor it backfires and puffs black smoke out the tail pipe. I want to think its a bad 02 sensor but not sure. It did throw a code only after we tried an 02 sensor from a honda rancher but that code was 2 long blinks followed by 3 fast which I believe is the o2 but the code goes away when I put the stock one back in. So kinda lost and any ideas would be great. I will be ordering a shop manual as well.
Thanks for anything

 

[Admin]

 

[Plumber32]

Water in fuel?

 

[Neohio]

code 23.
02 sensor heater circuit malfunction.
you are correct in that regard.

Does it offer any other codes?
Immediate access to a pdf of the manual is available here for supporting or lifetime members, If you don't want to wait on a manual. I believe it only covers 2016 model years though.

 

[JoshBoom95]

I have already drained all the gas. Even used a vacuum to get all the fuel out. Put fresh 87 non ethanol fuel in.
When I put the stock 02 sensor in the code goes away. So there are no other codes that I get from it. Just pulled the air cleaner and cleaned the filter but that looks good as well. If I start it up and don't touch the gas it idles fine. As soon as I touch the gas it starts missing and the idle surges. And it won't ever get back to normal. Then it will randomly clear out and then go right back to surging idle and rough gas pedal.

 

[Neohio]

according to the manual, the following could be issues

`inspect fuel system
`check idle speed
`check iavc
`check ignition system
also check for
valve clearance,
faulty ignition system.

Try putting 2 fresh plugs in it. You could have a cracked porcelain creating these issues.
grab a tube of dielectric grease and put it in every ignition component connection. use contact cleaner first to remove any possible contaminants.

 

[JoshBoom95]

so i am now thinking its a coil or plug issue because when it goes into its fit of not running right i can unplug the bottom coil and it wont affect anything. and when i plug it back in it sometimes fixes it and sometimes doesnt but when i unplug the top on when its not running good it dies, so i am getting a new coil and 2 new plugs. odd that the computer could detect a misfire? anywho i will udate in about a week when the parts get to my door.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Might want to clean the spark arrestor in the tail pipe while your at it.

 

[Neohio]

Might want to clean the spark arrestor in the tail pipe while your at it.

Doesn’t a clogged arrestor usually idle fine, but not rev?

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Doesn’t a clogged arrestor usually idle fine, but not rev?

Really just depends on how clogged up it is but usually will idle and die or run bad under load.

 

[Neohio]

If unplugging and plugging the coil fixes the problem. That would point me towards the wiring harness.
Have your machine idling, start fiddling with the harness and see if you can replicate the rough running.

I had an issue with a faulty factory crimp on my harness last year. After it ran and got warm, the fuel injection would shut off. Ended up with the wire only being connected by a few strands.

 

[zmnypit]

Any update? Mine started this Wed and again yesterday and hasnt thrown any codes. Idle fluctuates up and down, rich smell and if you press the gas or put it in gear it dies. If I do get it moving it runs fine until I stop again. Just started out of the blue and hasnt been washed in a couple weeks. Headed to beach so havent gotten to look at it yet.

 

[Neohio]

Any update? Mine started this Wed and again yesterday and hasnt thrown any codes. Idle fluctuates up and down, rich smell and if you press the gas or put it in gear it dies. If I do get it moving it runs fine until I stop again. Just started out of the blue and hasnt been washed in a couple weeks. Headed to beach so havent gotten to look at it yet.

Any codes being thrown?

 

[zmnypit]

Any codes being thrown?

No codes

 

[Neohio]

Check all your wiring for chew marks to start.
That time of year that mice start exploring

 

[Plumber32]

Doesn’t a clogged arrestor usually idle fine, but not rev?

That was my experience

 

[1BadDart]

Mine did something similar, only doing it intermittently. I changed the plugs and it hasn't acted up since.

 

[JoshBoom95]

hey all so i got my parts in. i ordered a new coil and 2 new plugs. so i had a bad coil. i was able to figure it out because when the bike would start running super rough i would unplug a coil. and when it didn't have an effect i knew it had to be because it wasn't firing. now i did try swapping the plugs with no effect so putting 2 new plugs and a new bottom coil in (that was the one that i could unplug with no change) cleared up the issue. also when you order the part the new coil doesn't come with the boot, so i just slid the old boot off and slid it on the new coil wire. did take some convincing. i layed the spark plug on the frame to make sure i had spark before putting the plug in. but all is back to normal now. just surprised the computer wouldn't give a code for a misfire.

 

[Uniblab]

I have a 2017 P1000/5 and had a similar issue, this thread came up from a google search and it was helpful to me so I thought I would post my experience also.

Background - shortly after buying my Pioneer I was hot-dogging it through some moderately deep water (maybe 18") and it started to run rough. Figured I got some electrical connection wet, so pulled it out of the puddle, dried everything off and it seemed to run okay after that, but not perfect. Since then, it has always had a stumble right off idle, only really noticeable after warmed up and worse when in 4wd and when starting off uphill (as in, when I needed it most). Dealership couldn't find anything wrong with it, of course. Wasn't too bad so I ignored it.

A few days ago, I took it out and the miss had gotten significantly worse. Was now idling on one cylinder, though once I got going, it seemed okay at higher RPMs. I did what Josh did and unplugged the coil wires one at a time. No change on the front cylinder, unplugging the rear cylinder and it died immediately. Obviously the front cylinder was not firing. Pretty sure I have good compression because it cranks evenly, and pretty sure I'm getting fuel because of how badly my eyes water when it is missing.

Next I swapped the spark plug "wires" (HV, coming from the coils) and also swapped the supply-side wiring to the coils (had to undo the wire hold-downs for it to reach). Started it up, and unplugging the front cylinder again produced no change while unplugging the rear cylinder killed the engine. Since the problem did not change after the coil swap I now suspected the spark plug.

Swapped spark plugs and returned the coils to their original configuration. This time, unplugging the front coil killed the engine and the rear produced no change. So when swapping plugs the problem followed the plug. Went to the local dealership and bought two new plugs. Replaced the rear plug with a new one and she is running like new again. No more miss at idle, and the longer-term problem with the off-idle dead spot is also gone. Made my day.

The bad plug looks perfect. My Pioneer only has 250 miles on it but I do drive it pretty hard. I am keeping the new spare plug double-baggied in the glove box in case of another failure. I also put dielectric grease over all of the connections I touched during this episode, including inside the plug boots. I guess I will start looking at ways to make the Pioneer more waterproof.

Thanks to everyone who posted, especially Josh. This forum is an invaluable resource!

 

[MMW]

I have a 2017 P1000/5 and had a similar issue, this thread came up from a google search and it was helpful to me so I thought I would post my experience also.

Background - shortly after buying my Pioneer I was hot-dogging it through some moderately deep water (maybe 18") and it started to run rough. Figured I got some electrical connection wet, so pulled it out of the puddle, dried everything off and it seemed to run okay after that, but not perfect. Since then, it has always had a stumble right off idle, only really noticeable after warmed up and worse when in 4wd and when starting off uphill (as in, when I needed it most). Dealership couldn't find anything wrong with it, of course. Wasn't too bad so I ignored it.

A few days ago, I took it out and the miss had gotten significantly worse. Was now idling on one cylinder, though once I got going, it seemed okay at higher RPMs. I did what Josh did and unplugged the coil wires one at a time. No change on the front cylinder, unplugging the rear cylinder and it died immediately. Obviously the front cylinder was not firing. Pretty sure I have good compression because it cranks evenly, and pretty sure I'm getting fuel because of how badly my eyes water when it is missing.

Next I swapped the spark plug "wires" (HV, coming from the coils) and also swapped the supply-side wiring to the coils (had to undo the wire hold-downs for it to reach). Started it up, and unplugging the front cylinder again produced no change while unplugging the rear cylinder killed the engine. Since the problem did not change after the coil swap I now suspected the spark plug.

Swapped spark plugs and returned the coils to their original configuration. This time, unplugging the front coil killed the engine and the rear produced no change. So when swapping plugs the problem followed the plug. Went to the local dealership and bought two new plugs. Replaced the rear plug with a new one and she is running like new again. No more miss at idle, and the longer-term problem with the off-idle dead spot is also gone. Made my day.

The bad plug looks perfect. My Pioneer only has 250 miles on it but I do drive it pretty hard. I am keeping the new spare plug double-baggied in the glove box in case of another failure. I also put dielectric grease over all of the connections I touched during this episode, including inside the plug boots. I guess I will start looking at ways to make the Pioneer more waterproof.

Thanks to everyone who posted, especially Josh. This forum is an invaluable resource!

A very good post, I am glad you got it figured out! Thanks for sharing.

 

[HondaTech]

hey all so i got my parts in. i ordered a new coil and 2 new plugs. so i had a bad coil. i was able to figure it out because when the bike would start running super rough i would unplug a coil. and when it didn't have an effect i knew it had to be because it wasn't firing. now i did try swapping the plugs with no effect so putting 2 new plugs and a new bottom coil in (that was the one that i could unplug with no change) cleared up the issue. also when you order the part the new coil doesn't come with the boot, so i just slid the old boot off and slid it on the new coil wire. did take some convincing. i layed the spark plug on the frame to make sure i had spark before putting the plug in. but all is back to normal now. just surprised the computer wouldn't give a code for a misfire.

Glad you got this problem solved it seems, Honda had some issues with the Africa Twin getting corroded plug wires (the end that screws into the cap) and causing complete shutdowns.

I was going to ask you to also check your coil mounts, I've seen a few that looked tight but when wiggled, they were significantly looser than the other one.

The reason you didn't get a misfire code was because unlike cars, most Honda powersport ECMs don't have the ability to recognize the engine is misfiring. They only know if a sensor is out of range or not operating properly. I don't believe even the Goldwing can trigger a misfire and they have knock sensors.