P700 Starting - Walking through the steps

[MRDMD19]

Newbie here. Just bought a 2016 700-2 with 12k miles on it from a farmer. Overall in nice condition, apart from the shovel fulls of dirt from removing the undercarriage guards! I’ve looked through all the threads and found helpful pieces but thought some of you vets might be able to walk me, and potentially others, through a troubleshooting pathway.
when I purchased, I noticed the machine turned over quite a number of times before it started, but when it bit, it purred immediately- no struggle. I figured she needed a tune up.To support, attached is a pic of the air filter. I did buy a brand new Yuasa battery as the battery was shot. Once home, it turned over and over, but never even barked. Followed manual procedure: no throttle, half throttle, full throttle — nothing. Tried later, lots of turning over then bit and purred perfectly. Drove it around - ran 100%. Stopped and started again immediately. Yes, in Park and Brake Pedal depressed at all times. Installed new plugs, changed oil/filter, cleaned the machine, installed new air filter, new final drive fluids. Started immediately following and ran perfect. Shut it off and came back an hour later - would not start. Gas is plentiful and reasonably fresh. Turn key and neutral light on, hear what sounds like a relay for a bit under the seat, wait, then turn over. Turns over perfectly but not even a bark. Now to the question: what is proper troubleshooting process: 1. Check for spark (pull plugs and hold against cylinder head - turn over- If no spark, then what? If spark, check for fuel - how? Perhaps a step by step on tracing back potentially spark and fuel problems would be helpful for many. In an aside, I recognize that electrical issues not related to spark may play a role - interlocks related to park lever, for example, may play a role. Open to checking everything and anything. Cheers!

 

[Wallace]

That is one dirty filter. Looks like water in the bottom of the filter box.

 

[MRDMD19]

There was a little water in there. I cleaned there housing and piping(internally). Now looks like the attached pic.

 

[Slackjaw]

I would start with the frame ground bolt (clean, tighten eyc) and some dri-gas. Assuming you replaced plugs already.
Farm has cans aren't known for fresh clean fuel.

 

[MRDMD19]

Yes. Plugs are fresh. Where is the frame ground bolt located? Good point on the farm gas, but would have thought crappy gas would make it spit/sputter. It either runs perfectly or doesn’t even try.

 

[Wallace]

You did put the new Battery on a charger, right. I have heard a low battery will spin it over but not have the juice to start.

 

[Slackjaw]

Yes. Plugs are fresh. Where is the frame ground bolt located? Good point on the farm gas, but would have thought crappy gas would make it spit/sputter. It either runs perfectly or doesn’t even try.

Follow battery negative terminal wire to where it bolts to the frame. It's a known issue and the same ground point is used by multiple systems. (ECU etc)

 

[MRDMD19]

Will do so today, but when ground is not good, wouldn’t the machine fail to receive power/turn over?

 

[MRDMD19]

You did put the new Battery on a charger, right. I have heard a low battery will spin it over but not have the juice to start.

The battery came ready for service and tested good before installation, can’t recall the exact number, but was over 13volts, I believe. After not starting, I pulled and did place on a trickle charger for a few days. The trickle charger quickly moved from the charge to the maintenance position on it.

 

[Slackjaw]

Will do so today, but when ground is not good, wouldn’t the machine fail to receive power/turn over?

Things go squirrelly as hell when that ground gets corroded. I wish it would simply not crank.
Farm use means manure, urine etc.
Very bad stuff for electrical connections.
I would use sandpaper and dielectric grease on all grounds. I would also probably cut off most of the spades/ring terminals, strip back to new wire and replace.

 

[MRDMD19]

Things go squirrelly as hell when that ground gets corroded. I wish it would simply not crank.
Farm use means manure, urine etc.
Very bad stuff for electrical connections.
I would use sandpaper and dielectric grease on all grounds. I would also probably cut off most of the spades/ring terminals, strip back to new wire and replace.

Removed the ground screw - 10mm. (Applied a pic of location to help others- accessed under the Right seat area.) very clean, apart from dust where no metal - metal contact, cleaned with acetone then rubbed down all with steel wool until bright and shiny, wiped with paper towel and reassembled. Before reassembly, checked confirmed conductivity between both ends of the grounding cable.
still no luck starting.
I then removed both plugs (recently replaced). I found it easiest to access from below/left side Both appear to soundly clink into the plug boot. I kept both connected plugs against the plug, foot on brake, turned over - ONLY GETTING 1 spark from each plug, simultaneously, about 1 spark per second. This seems a serious problem.Ooen to suggestions.

 

[Gator]

Gas, Pump, Injectors

Fuel Drain the gas and fill with premium ethanol free gas. Add an entire can of Sea Foam and/or a bottle of techron. Get it cranked and drive that tank of gas thru it.
Pump Remove fuel line and check fuel pressure or just replace the pump (after everything else has been tried)
Injectors Checking for plugged (partially plugged) injector is difficult. Hopefully the fuel additives will clean them. FYI: you must have good voltage for the injectors to fire

These are just thoughts that you have probably already considered

 

[bigshoe]

I've seen a few of these do this and it was always ignition switch they where cranking but not powering anything else

 

[MRDMD19]

Gas, Pump, Injectors

Fuel Drain the gas and fill with premium ethanol free gas. Add an entire can of Sea Foam and/or a bottle of techron. Get it cranked and drive that tank of gas thru it.
Pump Remove fuel line and check fuel pressure or just replace the pump (after everything else has been tried)
Injectors Checking for plugged (partially plugged) injector is difficult. Hopefully the fuel additives will clean them. FYI: you must have good voltage for the injectors to fire

These are just thoughts that you have probably already considered

Appreciate your thoughts, Gator. And no, I hadn't necessarily thought of all those things yet. Good advice. Since I feel I've identified what I think is a spark issue, I had planned on tracing that back first. If I know spark is good, I'll take your advice and start working back through fuel system.

 

[MRDMD19]

I've seen a few of these do this and it was always ignition switch they where cranking but not powering anything else

Just to clarify, Bigshoe, are you saying you've seen other Pioneers start/not start intermittently, but run well when they do go, or you've seen others with similar spark pattern?

 

[MRDMD19]

Looking for someone that has pulled their plugs, kept them plugged into their boots, kept them both against the engine, and turned the key. I'm use to seeing a continuous stream of spark between the electrode and tip, so fast that you couldn't count them. What I'm seeing on my 700 is both plugs simultaneously throwing 1 single spark each, about 1 per second (though the motor is turning over at a normal speed). Looking to verify this isn't normal. If so, I'll perhaps look at replacing the Ignition Coil Assembly that both plug wires travel into. Just don't want to replace the coil if what I'm seeing is normal.

 

[Backwoods]

Yo

There was a little water in there. I cleaned there housing and piping(internally). Now looks like the attached pic.

View attachment 249978

You need to oil that filter. Valves bad out of adjustment can make it hard to start or not at all. I have saw it on machines before. He probably never checked them.

 

[MRDMD19]

Yo

You need to oil that filter. Valves bad out of adjustment can make it hard to start or not at all. I have saw it on machines before. He probably never checked them.

Thanks. The filter comes pre-oiled or dry, and you can buy the oil. I selected the pre-oiled option.
Good to know about the valves. I'll start looking for a valve adjustment guide here on the forum. I'm sure somebody has probably already posted one.

 

[bigshoe]

S

Just to clarify, Bigshoe, you've seen other Pioneers start/not start intermittently, but run well when they do go, or you've seen others with similar spark only crank no start , usually is accompanied by dash not working correctly when its the switch. they always ran good when they started.

 

[CID]

Looking for someone that has pulled their plugs, kept them plugged into their boots, kept them both against the engine, and turned the key. I'm use to seeing a continuous stream of spark between the electrode and tip, so fast that you couldn't count them. What I'm seeing on my 700 is both plugs simultaneously throwing 1 single spark each, about 1 per second (though the motor is turning over at a normal speed). Looking to verify this isn't normal. If so, I'll perhaps look at replacing the Ignition Coil Assembly that both plug wires travel into. Just don't want to replace the coil if what I'm seeing is normal.

@HondaTech