P700 Starting - Walking through the steps

[CID]

In Comparison with the post of the 700 spark, I believe mine is sparking properly. I posted a YouTube video of mine. this leads me to considering 1. The fuel system or 2. Low compression. As my compression is only 50, I suspect it an issue, though it does run very strong when running — no apparent loss of power.I’d like to best understand how to chase back a fuel issue.

When I was just a puppy, my old car wouldn't start unless I push started it but it ran just fine once running. The sage old garage guy said - "You need a valve job, you don't have enough compression to fire at cranking speed." He was right, the valve job fixed it.

Since it won't fire with ether, I wouldn't be worrying about fuel issues right now. I do understand wanting to know how to trouble shoot fuel supply problems though; fuel injection is voo doo to me. 🤔

 

[Admin]

 

[MRDMD19]

Still at it. Suspected the fuel system was functioning at least to some degree — when my brother came over, I tried to start it and I saw the fuel line jump a slight amount. It cranked and cranked, but wouldn’t start, just a tiny little bite here and there. I took the plugs out to show him. It was sparking much less consistently.— see the attached video. Upon the work, my brother found that one of the boots on the ignition coil was barely on. We unbolted the coil and slid the boot back on. Not sure if that’s significant, but it then immediately fired right up. We drove it around the yard, where it performed 100%. Shut it off and it started right back up and purrec like a kitten. Still scratching my head on this. Don’t know if I’m naive enough to consider that the ignition coil was the issue, but I’m again becoming more suspicious it’s the spark side and not the fuel, because of the inconsistency of the spark —you can see as you compare the videos.

 

[MRDMD19]

When I was just a puppy, my old car wouldn't start unless I push started it but it ran just fine once running. The sage old garage guy said - "You need a valve job, you don't have enough compression to fire at cranking speed." He was right, the valve job fixed it.

Since it won't fire with ether, I wouldn't be worrying about fuel issues right now. I do understand wanting to know how to trouble shoot fuel supply problems though; fuel injection is voo doo to me. 🤔

Appreciate your thoughts. Given the cost and invasive nature of addressing the compression issue, I’m working to rule everything else out I can before dealing with it. have A feeling I’ll be circling back to compression eventually.

 

[v908]

Appreciate your thoughts. Given the cost and invasive nature of addressing the compression issue, I’m working to rule everything else out I can before dealing with it. have A feeling I’ll be circling back to compression eventually.

Do a valve adjustment, then check compression again. It could be that a valve isn't closing all the way and is reducing compression. Do the easy stuff before digging into the expensive stuff...

 

[MRDMD19]

Do a valve adjustment, then check compression again. It could be that a valve isn't closing all the way and is reducing compression. Do the easy stuff before digging into the expensive stuff...

Appreciate the advice. I did already adjust the valve clearance. compression is 52psi.

 

[MRDMD19]

starting is yet inconsistent, so I bought another 700 to use while I straighten this one out. It’s a year newer and almost identical. Some interesting things. I believe I was getting fuel, so I starting messing with electrical. The spark pattern is still wacky — hit and miss. For comparison, I pulled the plugs on the new one and placed them on the block. Very quick at first, then settled into a stable rhythm. The other older Sxs does not do the same. I swapped Ignition coils and the old coil worked in the new bike but the new coil did not get the old bike started. Swapped the main electrical unit under the seats. same result. not sure what else to do so I pulled the cover off the back of the motor to get to the stator coil. Oil came out when i removed the cover — I didn’t expect this. The ones I’ve done in the past were dry — though I’ve only ever seen 2 others - Suzuki and a Yamaha. Anyone in the know have a comment on this? I do see that the area is open to the crank case so I guess perhaps that’s ok. I attached a link to a video I took of it. The stator looks room, almost half burned up. Anyone know if this looks normal or not. Hate to invest in a coil if I don’t have to. Any way to bench test these?

 

[CID]

That stator looks cooked to me. Yamaha recalled the WR250 because of stators cooking themselves, mine only had a few thousand miles on it and the mechanic said it was visually cooked, much yours I'd imagine (never saw mine). My single cylinder motorcycle has 3 leads the same color coming out of the stator and two others for the pulse coil. Those 3 leads should ohm the same resistance.

I really think your stator is fried but I don't know that for a fact. Try the ohms thing, if they're reading wildly different, you've found your problem.

 

[MRDMD19]

Unrelated to the issue, but What brand of filter did you buy? I've never seen one with those options?

Can you post a video of the spark/cranking going on? The engine should have a distinct rhythm when cranking, and the spark should match that. Doesn't really sound like the issue, but I'd like to hear and see it.

The pre-oiled filter is a Honda. Here is a picture of a new one I bought for the newer sxs. You can see on the packaging that it’s pre-oiled and Honda brand.

 

[DG Rider]

The pre-oiled filter is a Honda. Here is a picture of a new one I bought for the newer sxs. You can see on the packaging that it’s pre-oiled and Honda brand.

View attachment 252250

Those are the ones I've gotten. I don't really trust the off brand s*** on Amazon as far as air filters go. Its just that when you mentioned un-oiled, I kinda freaked for a minute thinking I might have ordered a dry one (even though I always check, and they are oiled, they don't seem to have much on them).

 

[MRDMD19]

Those are the ones I've gotten. I don't really trust the off brand s*** on Amazon as far as air filters go. Its just that when you mentioned un-oiled, I kinda freaked for a minute thinking I might have ordered a dry one (even though I always check, and they are oiled, they don't seem to have much on them).

Agreed in that there isn’t much oil on the pre-oiled units which lends me to believe either: 1. I apply too much/don’t wring out enough, or 2. Honda skimps on the oil. I’d have to believe Honda knows best what their machine needs, so the fault likely lies with me.

 

[MRDMD19]

Agreed in that there isn’t much oil on the pre-oiled units which lends me to believe either: 1. I apply too much/don’t wring out enough, or 2. Honda skimps on the oil. I’d have to believe Honda knows best what their machine needs, so the fault likely lies with me.
And, yes, I don’t trust off-brand anything!!!

 

[MRDMD19]

And...replaced the stator, she starts and runs like a top!!!! Because my brother jumped in to pull it apart and throw in the new part with me, I did not record the event with pics. If it hasnt already been posted, I’d be happy to walk anyone through the details. It truly is a bolt-on process. The only annoying part was carefully scraping off the old gasket with a razor blade. I typically use only Honda branded everything, but I’ll admit I did use the Permatex gasket maker (black-made to be in contact with oil), instead of the TB1215 described in the book. Torqued all per spec. My only disappointment was the lack of a spec for the bolts on the alternator (stator) cover. Including a pic of both stators.

 

[DG Rider]

And...replaced the stator, she starts and runs like a top!!!! Because my brother jumped in to pull it apart and throw in the new part with me, I did not record the event with pics. If it hasnt already been posted, I’d be happy to walk anyone through the details. It truly is a bolt-on process. The only annoying part was carefully scraping off the old gasket with a razor blade. I typically use only Honda branded everything, but I’ll admit I did use the Permatex gasket maker (black-made to be in contact with oil), instead of the TB1215 described in the book. Torqued all per spec. My only disappointment was the lack of a spec for the bolts on the alternator (stator) cover. Including a pic of both stators.

View attachment 255033

I think you're the 2nd person who had wires starting issues from a burned stator. The crank position sensor is built into it, as you probably know. Glad you got it!