P1000 Sub-Transmission Service

wrhii

wrhii

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All that's left is to put it all back together.

My day went surprisingly well until it came to putting the front diff back into its position. Maybe I was getting tired, maybe my luck had run out, but the best advice I can give you for putting the front diff back in is to not tighten anything, not even a little bit, until all three long bolts and both brackets are in place. It gave me a really hard time getting all of the hardware in, even with nuts on finger tight.

Oh, and then getting the seat back on again. I swear that thing shrunk 1/4" due to the change in temperature between when I took it off and when I put it back on. That's the only explanation I have for it. The five bolts wouldn't line up to save my ass. But that's another story...

Other than that, this guide is a wrap. If I remember anything I'm missing, I'll come back and make edits. It has been five days between doing the work and writing this up, so it's possible I could be off somewhere. Anyone who has experience with this, that wants to add more detail or fix anything I may have messed up, please share and I will update the guide!

Thanks to all of the members that have put up guides to help me through things. I hope my contribution pays a little back.
Thanks. Im afraid the company 1pk is coming up soon.
 
wrhii

wrhii

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What are your symptoms?
About what id expect after looking at the photos you posted. All goes into reverse, except the trans, I can feel it connect, disconnect and reconnect again. Seems that only one or two places where it will mesh well enough to say connected and pull the machine. The boys use it to move cattle occasionally, a lot of "backing and forthing" happening, sometimes........ rapidly. Maybe a bent shift fork but it sounds like it would in your photos. Cant put that sound into words.🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
 
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ch33br0h

ch33br0h

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@P1K5Dave

thank you for taking the time to create this post!
I now have (2) great walkthroughs for this service and just made the plunge to order the parts!

I'm curious to hear if you had to get any special/specific tools?
In Sub=Trans section of the manual they have a page of tools and I see that at least one the "Bearing Remover" where each one comes in at over $200...
Or did you manage to get by with just standard tools we all have laying around?
 
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aspire

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Thanks for this guide! I am in the process of assembling the sub transmission and putting the two cases back together. In the service manual, page 12-20 says "Tighten the bolts securely". This is ambiguous. I would think there should be a torque spec for the case bolts which secure the cover side, gasket and case side together. However, I can only find torque specs for the mounting bolts which secure the sub transmission assembly to the crank case assembly.

Sub transmission Mounting Bolt (cover side = 20 ft lbs)
Sub transmission Mounting Bolt (case side = 21 ft lbs)

The case bolts and the mounting bolts will both compress the gasket(s) and assume tightness should be evenly applied.
Therefore is it correct to assume 20ft lbs for the sub trans case bolts?
 
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P1K5Dave

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@aspire ,

I remember coming up on that question myself, I think we discussed it in some other thread because they didn't give me a spec. It seems I recall they had a "general" torque spec based on bolt size that you were to apply absent specific instructions.

I just went with "tightened" by a 1/4" drive ratchet that wouldn't let me twist anything off, but allowed me to get them pretty snug. I'm sure you'll be fine with the 20 ft lbs if it felt good on the hand-torque test.
 
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P1K5Dave

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As with any cover and gasket, the most important part is working side to side, tightening bolts across from one another a bit at a time until it's all snug and even.
 
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ehart814

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Nice job on the write up! Good motivation for me to slowwwly shift from forward to reverse and back and make sure it's engaged and fully stopped before moving! One thing I do not like about the 1000 is the shifter. It just doesn't give a good "feel" for when it's in gear correctly, and having to worry about it being out of adjustment.
 
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CID

CID

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Nice job on the write up! Good motivation for me to slowwwly shift from forward to reverse and back and make sure it's engaged and fully stopped before moving! One thing I do not like about the 1000 is the shifter. It just doesn't give a good "feel" for when it's in gear correctly, and having to worry about it being out of adjustment.
#metoo :oops: (but Talon) I'm glad to have learned about the potential problem before I did any damage. New to SxSs but understanding how shift dogs work, I can take my time shifting to avoid long term, permanent, internal damage. This thread will reinforce that caution.

It's still light years better than a CVT. :p
 
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aspire

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@P1K5Dave

Hoping you can shed some light here... 2020 Honda Pioneer 1000-3 EPS and when I disconnected the propeller shaft from the
sub transmission the manual (12-6 and 12-9) refer to a "joint spring". I presume it is meant to prevent any telescoping and keep tension on the shaft. I have looked and ran my finger inside the collar of the u-joint but no spring is present. Just splines and moly grease. What is more confusing is there is no picture of this spring anywhere and no part number I can find. In fact, the exploded diagrams only show a "SPRING, FR. PROPELLER SHAFT 40415-HL4-A00" on the front differential side of the shaft (18-7). Not getting much of anywhere on this. Did you have a spring present on yours? I called 5 Pioneer dealerships and got 5 different answers (yes spring, no spring etc.). Can't get a straight answer on what part I need to order if any...

Update: The latest dealer I spoke with stated the manual is covering a range of models (2016-2020) and the procedure steps may not apply to all models. He further stated the parts diagram is the definitive source and that it doesn't show any spring and thus makes sense it not be present. Would love to have this verified somehow.
 
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Chunk4546

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Does anyone have any pictures pf the talon reverse gears side by side with the pioneer reverse gears. Im havimg trouble getting mine back together and at this point the only piece i changed was the talon reverse, but i tossed my pioneer gear in the garbage before i compared it. I have a thread on my issue but maybe somebody is watching this one and missed my thread.
 
Hondoman

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Does anyone have any pictures pf the talon reverse gears side by side with the pioneer reverse gears. Im havimg trouble getting mine back together and at this point the only piece i changed was the talon reverse, but i tossed my pioneer gear in the garbage before i compared it. I have a thread on my issue but maybe somebody is watching this one and missed my thread.
Does the one you have show a part # by chance?

HL4 is pioneer
HL6 is talon

Aren't the number of teeth different?

Screenshot 20210316 184147
 
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Chunk4546

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there is no marking in the gear itself. I looked at my receipt and it say it is the 23691-HL6. But im worried that isnt what i got. See attached picture the gear doesnt go up to the flat part. Does anyone have a picture of theirs in the same angle.

A39F3357 CCA4 43FB A16C F25F2FD74CFF
 
P1K5Dave

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@P1K5Dave

Hoping you can shed some light here... 2020 Honda Pioneer 1000-3 EPS and when I disconnected the propeller shaft from the
sub transmission the manual (12-6 and 12-9) refer to a "joint spring". I presume it is meant to prevent any telescoping and keep tension on the shaft. I have looked and ran my finger inside the collar of the u-joint but no spring is present. Just splines and moly grease. What is more confusing is there is no picture of this spring anywhere and no part number I can find. In fact, the exploded diagrams only show a "SPRING, FR. PROPELLER SHAFT 40415-HL4-A00" on the front differential side of the shaft (18-7). Not getting much of anywhere on this. Did you have a spring present on yours? I called 5 Pioneer dealerships and got 5 different answers (yes spring, no spring etc.). Can't get a straight answer on what part I need to order if any...

Update: The latest dealer I spoke with stated the manual is covering a range of models (2016-2020) and the procedure steps may not apply to all models. He further stated the parts diagram is the definitive source and that it doesn't show any spring and thus makes sense it not be present. Would love to have this verified somehow.
Sorry I'm just getting back to you on this...

That was, in fact, the one thing I was puzzled about myself, after the fact. I went ahead and put it all back together, only later to think "what about that spring and o-ring that was mentioned in the service manual?"

I never saw a spring, and I think I recall an o-ring on the shaft. I assumed (later) that the spring must've stayed inside when I took it apart, and made a note to check it if I have this apart again.

I also wondered if by chance the previous owner had been in there...

I guess I can rest a little easier now? There is no spring?
 
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P1K5Dave

P1K5Dave

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On second thought, I need to re-read this and check the diagrams. It was the spring at the front diff that I'm referring to.
 
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P1K5Dave

P1K5Dave

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there is no marking in the gear itself. I looked at my receipt and it say it is the 23691-HL6. But im worried that isnt what i got. See attached picture the gear doesnt go up to the flat part. Does anyone have a picture of theirs in the same angle.

View attachment 260994

Looking at your pic, something about this is familiar, but I don't have specific memory.

Pay close attention to those exploded diagrams of the shaft / gear assemblies from the parts diagrams.

It's not in the service manual. I posted it above. (Edit 4-20-2021: I corrected the earlier post to reference the exploded diagram in the service manual, page 12-21.)

It's possible you may have something out of order, or backward, or perhaps the wrong washer in the wrong place in your reassembly.

Look at each item in the parts diagram carefully. If you use Partzilla to look at each part individually, they often give dimensions for washers and such. Check them with a caliper.
 
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