P1000 Sub-Transmission Service

[William]

Just wondering... How many times of grinding did it take to get to the point where it wouldn’t go into low? Mine has grinded 3 times... Once when new. A deep grind... Second two times very light and I caught it quick. Mine goes in low easily now that it is adjusted correctly. The two times it did it lightly I was facing forward downhill, and stopped and shifted to low, and it rolled forward a tiny bit while shifting and that is why it didn’t go in gear I guess...

 

[Admin]

 

[ch33br0h]

Just wondering... How many times of grinding did it take to get to the point where it wouldn’t go into low? Mine has grinded 3 times... Once when new. A deep grind... Second two times very light and I caught it quick. Mine goes in low easily now that it is adjusted correctly. The two times it did it lightly I was facing forward downhill, and stopped and shifted to low, and it rolled forward a tiny bit while shifting and that is why it didn’t go in gear I guess...

for me;
I never had grinding or issues going in too Low.
Was doing a ton of quick turn arounds, High, Reverse, helper connects trailer, I shift to low and go with cargo.
After a few, my Reverse to Low action was going quick and I def never came to full stops......

It started by what I call "jumping" out of low, eventually had a few "jumps" out of Reverse and finally could not move more than a few meters in Low without it jumping out.

 

[Adam490]

I've got some notes to add once I get back to the computer. Job isn't bad at all.

 

[Adam490]

Finished up my Talon reverse swap yesterday. Didn't run into any issues. The short bolt on the back of the case isn't bad to get to with a 12mm crescent wrench. I cracked it loose and then just spun it off with my fingers.

Couple things that made it easier (mind you I was doing this by myself with the buggy on jackstands):

I used a ratchet strap to hold the front drive shaft up and out of the way on the drivers side. With it resting on the coolant lines the case would come out, but it would catch on the boot and hang up when the drive shaft slid over. I just looped the strap around the boot and tied it off to the seat post on the drivers side. Made it super easy to get the subtrans back in.

I used a large flat blade screwdriver to pop the rear driveshaft off the output shaft after getting the subtrans to separate. You could tug on it, but with a little bit of pressure against the shaft you can pop it loose easily with the driver.

The "special washers" are a bit of a pain. You basically use the gear like a slide hammer to get the washer off. When reinstalling them I used a small rubber mallet to tap them to get started and then I was able to work them on by hand.

If I had to do it again, it would only be a 3-4 hour job. With the subtrans out you could do a gear swap in 45 minutes or so once you know how the shift drum and gear train go together.

My low gear and shifter was nowhere near as bad as some of them I've seen:

Thanks again @P1K5Dave for the walkthrough

 

[Trapper5885]

Hello guys , just read this thread about the sub transmission ....lots of good info . I just started having an issue with mine .
Have a pk13. 2016 , hopefully you all can help with a little input . I shift it into low and I’ll move about 10’ and it jumps out and back in to gear repeatedly, making a clanking bang like sound. Then I stop and put it in high and it runs great and my reverse works good with no issues . Do you think it just needs some cable adjustments ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[P1K5Dave]

Do you think it just needs some cable adjustments ?

You certainly need some adjustment, the question is how much the cogs have been beat up, or has the shift fork been bent...

Lots of jumping in and out repeatedly doesn't sound good, though.

 

[ch33br0h]

I shift it into low and I’ll move about 10’ and it jumps out and back in to gear repeatedly, making a clanking bang like sound. Then I stop and put it in high and it runs great and my reverse works good with no issues .

That "jumping and clanking" comes from those teeth in our photos being slammed.
soon you will feel it in Reverse when under more pressure like backing up a hill.

 

[P1K5Dave]

I made an edit to one of the breakdown posts today, to mention page 12-21 in the service manual and the needle bearings. Did you guys notice that they were missing a needle? By design...

P1000 - Sub-Transmission Service

I replaced my reverse and low gears in the sub-transmission this week. It was my first time going through the sub-trans, but I learned a lot that is useful to pass on to anyone getting into this. The first part of this is a guide to removing the sub-trans. You may need to get into it for...

hondasxs.com

 

[ch33br0h]

Did you guys notice that they were missing a needle? By design...

I was in a Cold Panic when I saw one needle missing...then spent a good amount of time looking for it and thinking I had to pause and import some parts. Was happy to find the note about it being intentional !

 

[Adam490]

I made an edit to one of the breakdown posts today, to mention page 12-21 in the service manual and the needle bearings. Did you guys notice that they were missing a needle? By design...

P1000 - Sub-Transmission Service

I replaced my reverse and low gears in the sub-transmission this week. It was my first time going through the sub-trans, but I learned a lot that is useful to pass on to anyone getting into this. The first part of this is a guide to removing the sub-trans. You may need to get into it for...

hondasxs.com

I read in the service manual that they are missing one by design so I wasn't bothered by it.

Hello guys , just read this thread about the sub transmission ....lots of good info . I just started having an issue with mine .
Have a pk13. 2016 , hopefully you all can help with a little input . I shift it into low and I’ll move about 10’ and it jumps out and back in to gear repeatedly, making a clanking bang like sound. Then I stop and put it in high and it runs great and my reverse works good with no issues . Do you think it just needs some cable adjustments ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yours is doing exactly what mine did. Once there's any ramping on the face of those dogs it won't hold under a load and will do exactly what you describe. You can try adjusting the cable (it's under the battery) but I doubt you'll be that lucky.

 

[Adam490]

Another quick note for anyone doing this...

The driveshaft has a small gap at the subtrans side of the front output shaft. You'll have cleaned that output shaft as you were working on the gear swap so it will look like the driveshaft should be further back. I laid under there fighting it for 15-20 minutes before I realized the front diff was hitting the steering rack and that driveshaft can't go back any further. Hopefully this saves someone else from the same hassle .

 

[Trapper5885]

Thanks guys for all the help , I’ll be adjusting the cable soon, if that doesn’t work , it’ll be doing the swap . I guess
Outside of this issue , my machine has been Flawless
Over the years. Again thanks

 

[Adam490]

Thanks guys for all the help , I’ll be adjusting the cable soon, if that doesn’t work , it’ll be doing the swap . I guess
Outside of this issue , my machine has been Flawless
Over the years. Again thanks

Hopefully the adjustment does it for you. If not and you need to replace the gears, feel free to PM me if you need any help with it 👍🏻

 

[skinsone]

Completed my repair last week. The only problem I ran into was after I had reinstalled it and put the front diff back in place, I started the machine and grabbed the shift lever and it was stuck. I could not move it either direction.

Took the subtrans back out and took the cover off thinking I had something out of place. Everything looked fine so I manually worked the shift drum for 30 minutes or so until I was certain everything was moving freely and in nuetral. When I put the cover back on and the gap between the case and cover was less than 1/2” I grabbed the control shaft and pulled up slightly and felt it move and pop into place.

Reinstalled and it works perfectly.

Although I can’t be sure what was wrong the first time, I think when I put the cover on originally and had to use a little side pressure on the shift drum to align it with hole in the cover that I ended up putting too much pressure on the control shaft and forced it down a little and the gears were no longer aligned.

the repair wasn’t too scary (kinda fun actually) with a service manual handy and this thread w/pictures of other people going through the same thing.

 

[ch33br0h]

Got my sub-trans back in place!
Minor issue with the line up of the gear selector/indicator.
on first try, my dash showed blank for all and P in the H position. took it back out and reinserted a few times till at one point I turned the longer end to point where my short end was going and bingo!

Felt good to already know how to assemble the rest, struggled a bit with replacing the skid plate and sure enough, when entering the final bolt is when I noticed the pattern.... next time I know that one is my savior!

Found a Fox dealer in country that fixed my shocks and also went with new Eibach springs in the rear, thanks to the info in this forum.
Also finally installed the door bushings from @RB3offroad ---Wow, they are well worth it!

My only bad side effect was that when I took the battery out to view the shift adjustment, it dropped and damaged my ground terminal..... due to my location it could be 1-2 weeks before a new battery reaches me. Around here its either Diesel trucks or small chinese motos, no one has a compatible battery for the Honda.. Guess it just gives me more time to see what else needs revision!

I've worked my life in IT, but have always been shy about working on my rigs beyond basic oil changes.. its just always been easier to send the to the shop.... 2020 changed that and well, Just want to send a big thank you to all on here that help share the data!

 

[GameOverMan]

The next place I want to interject is on page 12-18 (PDF 388) second set of instructions, as follows:

View attachment 226574
What they're talking about as far as "alignment" there is the straight vertical groove on your shift drum. The straight vertical groove will face toward, and align with, the pins in the shift fork shaft. You'll see what I'm talking about when you're there.

Continue following the manual until we get to the top of page 12-19 (PDF 389).

Hey Guys, Working on the putting the sub-trans back together. Have been trying to assemble it in N and park inside the vehicle. Didn't work. Going to try 3rd time and shift gear in N before installing it.

But I'm confused on the drum alignment. First I put all the bosses back into the groove on the drum. Then I lift the forks and rotate the drum counter clockwise 180 degrees? Because I've been just rotating it a bit but I'm not sure the proper way. Manual is confusing.

 

[ch33br0h]

I'm confused on the drum alignment. First I put all the bosses back into the groove on the drum. Then I lift the forks and rotate the drum counter clockwise 180 degrees? Because I've been just rotating it a bit but I'm not sure the proper way. Manual is confusing.

My best advice is to gently lift forks and rotate just a little till it does its magic.
I had to walk away a few times at this point cause things were not lined up properly for me, was struggling hard to understand the steps and finally it all just clicked in to place when I changed my focus.

I hope to provide you some moral support on this and I'm sure others will chime in with more detailed/mechanical guidance.

 

[GameOverMan]

My best advice is to gently lift forks and rotate just a little till it does its magic.
I had to walk away a few times at this point cause things were not lined up properly for me, was struggling hard to understand the steps and finally it all just clicked in to place when I changed my focus.

I hope to provide you some moral support on this and I'm sure others will chime in with more detailed/mechanical guidance.

Thank you! Ugh, this is my 3rd time putting it on. I can rotate like a quarter where the wheel on the bottom (pic3) falls in the groove on the drum. Or if I rotate just a bit where the lines line up like the manual tells me then it falls out into this dead groove from where it doesnt shift anymore. I've done this 3 times where it lines up but in parking position on the lever. Should I try to line up and in Neutral lever?

 

[GameOverMan]

I'm guessing if that wheel falls in the groove on the bottom drum. It is in Reverse? Is that right?

 

[ch33br0h]

I'm guessing if that wheel falls in the groove on the bottom drum. It is in Reverse? Is that right?

its been a while since I did mine and it was super hair raising for me....
One vivid memory I have was that once I reached a point where all just clicked in to place,
I was able to rotate the shaft from what I felt was my neutral with 2 quick rotations down to H and L and long rotation up to R and P.

Then just remember that all including the console shifter should be in N when it comes to time to reassemble and mount.

hopefully I'm not confusing you more!!!