Thoughts about Showa shocks

[Hello_Darkness]

Except for the lack of threaded adjustable ride height the showa are on par with the Fox . How Honda comes up with the spring rates and valving baffles me sometimes. It has always been this way with them and motorsports Honda could have speced the valving different which cost next to nothing. Shims are cheap. If people feel the showas are that bad a revalve is easy and less expensive. Lot cheaper if you know how to do it yourself. Everyone has different expectations

My GM said the same after our ride, way better than the stock FOX stuff on his '19 R.

I've ridden 3 wheelers (suspended and not) all over God's green earth. You want a rough ride, there the standard for it.

If the Showas on that 4 seater i drove in Georgia are bad, I'd hate to see what's "Good".

I mean I guess a cloud would be better

 

[Admin]

 

[trigger]

I'm no suspension expert but after reading these 3 pages and using common sense... coil overs are made up of two components, springs and the actual shock which controls the speed and strength of rebound. My experience with the P5 is that the stockers had decent springs but the shocks sucked. You could adjust the preload and either bottom out constantly or go for a rodeo ride on the rough stuff at speed. Finding a happy medium was like pulling teeth. Bought some Walker Evans, which were damn near 20% the cost of the machine. Same thing with the preload, either too stiff or too soft. After playing with the shock adjustments you just have to find a happy spot. Very little noticeable difference at slow speeds but much better handling the chop at higher speeds. Well worth the money IMO but unless you have a fully electronic suspension system that adjusts on the fly there's going to be compromises. 🤷‍♂️

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

The only way you can get a soft smooth ride at low speeds while still having enough go fast suspension to absorb big impacts and jumps is with a bypass shock. There has to be a compromise with normal shocks because they have no way to bypass fluid around the piston at slow speeds. If Honda set up the non bypass shocks to deliver a plush ride at low speeds, the high speed handling and bottom out resistance would be horrible.

 

[futzin]

I played with the adjustment settings on the Walker Evans recently on my P5 with long travel kit. Small and medium adjustments were immediately noticeable at both slower and faster speeds. @KyGal83

 

[CID]

The only way you can get a soft smooth ride at low speeds while still having enough go fast suspension to absorb big impacts and jumps is with a bypass shock. There has to be a compromise with normal shocks because they have no way to bypass fluid around the piston at slow speeds. If Honda set up the non bypass shocks to deliver a plush ride at low speeds, the high speed handling and bottom out resistance would be horrible.

I've always wondered how the big hits could be handled while still being supple through the chop. I've whined openly about how harsh I think my '21 R2 rides at slower, trail cruising speeds but I've also been delighted at how well it handles the surprise, unseen hits when I don't even have time to lift.

Shock Therapy (yeah, I know) is asking ~$5k for a full set of BP shocks and that ain't happenin'.

 

[lash55]

Just wanted to know now to adjust the shocks. Do you go to full stop soft and then turn clockwise one turn for each stop? Low speed is suppose to have 12 settings, does that mean you can turn it 12 full rotations from stop. I know there are the marks on the valve so you can count the turns. Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

[JayPo]

Just wanted to know now to adjust the shocks. Do you go to full stop soft and then turn clockwise one turn for each stop? Low speed is suppose to have 12 settings, does that mean you can turn it 12 full rotations from stop. I know there are the marks on the valve so you can count the turns. Thanks for any help you can give me.

Low speed is the screw in the middle. Turn in all the way counterclockwise untill it stops and this is full soft. For anything harder than full soft, turn it clockwise to the desired setting. You will feel it click every 1/4 of a turn or so. I think there are 12 clicks or so to get to full hard.

High speed is the nut around the screw. One full turn is a setting. You can use the dot on the nut and the dot outside the nut to determine a full turn. To start, turn the nut counterclockwise until it stops (full soft). For anything harder than full soft, turn it one full turn for each setting until you get to the desired setting. I think there are 12 or 14 high speed settings.

The user manual gives the exact details on the number of low speed and high speed settings for the front and the back shocks.

 

[Mudwisel]

I've always wondered how the big hits could be handled while still being supple through the chop. I've whined openly about how harsh I think my '21 R2 rides at slower, trail cruising speeds but I've also been delighted at how well it handles the surprise, unseen hits when I don't even have time to lift.

Shock Therapy (yeah, I know) is asking ~$5k for a full set of BP shocks and that ain't happenin'.

Like has been said. Most of the time it is a compromise. You can tweak the valving to change how fast the progression ramps up. When rebuilding the fox off of a Talon x the rebound stack was not what I expected. I would assume it was stock unless they repeened the shaft. (NOMo).

 

[lash55]

Thank you for clarifying that for me, now I know where to start from. Manual wasn`t real clear for me

 

[JWB]

The reason for the switch to Showa was because FOX can't keep up with the demand for OEM SxS shocks, and the manufacturers are tired of waiting for stock to arrive to build more machines. Kawasaki did the same thing and switched to Showa shocks but used a better version with adjustable crossovers and true dual rate springs that can be adjusted. Honda just hates their customers...

Ya gotta wonder!

 

[Smitty335]

Exactly, they are built to a price point.

I do find it interesting that a new '24 TalonX2 has the same list price it did in '19, can the same be said for PoPo or Kawi? Legit question because I have no idea what those machines cost.

That said, is it really that big of a deal to fork over $2600 for a set of custom Elkas that are set up for you vs a higher end shock from Honda (w a higher MSRP) that everyone would still b1tch about? I don't think so but that's me.

Elka's are pretty nice, just order how you ride and slap them on.

 

[KyGal83]

Elka's are pretty nice, just order how you ride and slap them on.

Good to see you back, Smitty. I hope you are continuing to do well.

 

[JWB]

Elka's are pretty nice, just order how you ride and slap them on.

When I started looking at Elka's, the price for all four corners was about $5K. That's why I was somewhat dubious about the Bandit stage 5 set for $2400. And yes, another $2400 to make a new machine work properly is definitely a big deal to me- it was money I should not have had to spend.

 

[DRZRon1]

When I started looking at Elka's, the price for all four corners was about $5K. That's why I was somewhat dubious about the Bandit stage 5 set for $2400. And yes, another $2400 to make a new machine work properly is definitely a big deal to me- it was money I should not have had to spend.

Or just get the foxes done - they can be made to work great - I get the budget thing 😂


point is 4 new boingers is nice and ideal - but the stock boingers can be made to work just as good at a lower cost - also, unless you are a high speed cornerer - try and disconnect rear sway bar - that helps as well

 

[Smitty335]

Good to see you back, Smitty. I hope you are continuing to do well.

Thanks, it's nice to feel better.

 

[JWB]

Or just get the foxes done - they can be made to work great - I get the budget thing 😂


point is 4 new boingers is nice and ideal - but the stock boingers can be made to work just as good at a lower cost - also, unless you are a high speed cornerer - try and disconnect rear sway bar - that helps as well

The base machine (mine)comes with Showa's. Unfortunately, there is no one yet, that I'm aware of, that has any info, or experience modifying these new for 2024 shocks. And I didn't want to be the guinea pig modifying shocks that will still have no cross-over or pre-load adjustability, and having to spend, likely a lot of time, back and forth communication and shipping, test rides and aggravation. I had already disconnected both sway bars, installed bigger tires on smaller diameter rims, and was running on 6 psi with all four shocks set to the softest settings. The problem is solved by installing Stage 5 Bandits, at least on this particular platform.

 

[hondabob]

My Fox Shocks on my 2023 Talon R Live Valve had the rear tender springs sack out in 4,000 miles. I replaced them with 12-inch Eibach springs, and my ground clearance is back from 8.5 inches to 12.5 inches. It will be interesting to see someone with 4,000 miles on the Showa Shocks. I wanted the Showa Shocks, but Honda doesn't offer a 4-seater R model with the Showa Shocks plus the loss of preload adjustment and cross over rings was a deal breaker for me. Tender springs don't do well if they are constantly getting coil bind. My RZR 900 needed new tender springs every 2,000 miles.

 

[JWB]

My Fox Shocks on my 2023 Talon R Live Valve had the rear tender springs sack out in 4,000 miles. I replaced them with 12-inch Eibach springs, and my ground clearance is back from 8.5 inches to 12.5 inches. It will be interesting to see someone with 4,000 miles on the Showa Shocks. I wanted the Showa Shocks, but Honda doesn't offer a 4-seater R model with the Showa Shocks plus the loss of preload adjustment and cross over rings was a deal breaker for me. Tender springs don't do well if they are constantly getting coil bind. My RZR 900 needed new tender springs every 2,000 miles.

The rear showa's tender springs are in near coil bind with no load in the machine. By 'near', I mean you might be able to slide a piece of paper in between the coils.... Heading out to Spearhead and Hatfield-McCoy trails tomorrow for a week. Looking forward to not getting the crap beat outta me on the new Bandits.

 

[JWB]

End of third day on Spearhead trails with the Bandit stage 5 struts. 100% Yay! What a fun capable machine my Talon X 2 is now! Now I need fender flares- the Rip-Saws throw mud everywhere. Anyone who is familiar with the Rip-Saws knows how stiff they are, and how they tend to throw stuff. I'm running them with 10psi and it still rides amazing. Showa struts on 2024 Talon X 2: BOOOOO. FAIL.