What settings for stock Talon 2020R when riding rocky washes?

[Doogle]

I have no knowledge about settings for shocks and springs on my stock 2020 TalonR. I've not experimented in 700 miles of riding. I've been in some tipsy situations and wonder if different settings may have made things more stable and less exciting. Going over uneven ledges with one side dropping more than the other, would softer shock settings and different spring compressions help me? I haven't been to any high speed or sand areas yet, and don't think I will be anytime soon.

 

[Admin]

 

[JACKAL]

Slow speed rocky / rough terrain typically the softest settings will give you the best ride.

As far as tippy, it might be the effects of the sway bars essentially tying both sides together. Disconnect the sway bar linkage on one side and try it, see it you like the better articulation of the suspension. Please note you will incur more body roll in higher speed turning without the swaybar linkage connected.

It all boils down to personal preference.

In the end you would probably benefit from softer dual rate spings on the shocks for low to moderate speed trail riding. These units are sprung very stiff in case the phony tough and crazy brave want to attack deep sand whoops at 50-60 mph, FOX use heavy springs to compensate for not using bottom out cups and proper internal valving to meet Honda spec requirements.

 

[PaulF]

I have a Weller Racing "middle of the road" tune but the basic setting for different riding will be similar...

• At the dunes, I run the clickers on #3, the rear crossovers way down (45 turns down from bind), the sway bar attached and 8 psi in my paddles. This works pretty good considering it is not really tuned for the dunes. It is a little harsh set up this way but I need the bottom out resistance more than a plush ride.
• Trail riding, I put the clickers at #1 or 2 depending on terrain, tires at 12 psi and the rear crossovers about in the middle at 25 turns down from binding and generally have the sway bar attached. Rides like a Cadillac and handles great. This setup is even Wifey approved (and she hated the stock setup).
• Rock crawling is #1 clickers, rear crossovers at bind +2 turns (I don't want the upper springs binding), tires at 6psi and the sway bar detached. This is a killer setup and works really well for me on the slickrock. It provides good articulation on all 4 corners without being overly "tippy".

At the very least, try disconnecting your sway bar when crawling. On the R, you have to remove both links and pull it up out of the way or the bar will hit the upper trailing arm.

 

[CID]

One of the first things I did to my R was raise the crossover rings 'a lot', see the link in my sig for details. This will soften your ride considerably. I also added quick disconnect sway bar links and run it disconnected most of the time. I hook it back up when higher speeds are expected (you know who U are ). Disconnecting the SB will also soften your ride, noticeably. I run my shocks on full soft, position 1, even with 2 spares.

Showing the SB and upper trailing arm interference potential Paul mentions -


Doogle - get a tilt bubble, the Talon's tilt table number is 37.3*. There's no reason to be freaked out at 20* and I didn't know where that was. Note that the tilt table number is static and we're dynamic, a slight bounce at 30* might do you in. Be careful ordering, mine is about 3" wide, the first one I ordered was 7".

 

[Doogle]

I have a Weller Racing "middle of the road" tune but the basic setting for different riding will be similar...

• At the dunes, I run the clickers on #3, the rear crossovers way down (45 turns down from bind), the sway bar attached and 8 psi in my paddles. This works pretty good considering it is not really tuned for the dunes. It is a little harsh set up this way but I need the bottom out resistance more than a plush ride.
• Trail riding, I put the clickers at #1 or 2 depending on terrain, tires at 12 psi and the rear crossovers about in the middle at 25 turns down from binding and generally have the sway bar attached. Rides like a Cadillac and handles great. This setup is even Wifey approved (and she hated the stock setup).
• Rock crawling is #1 clickers, rear crossovers at bind +2 turns (I don't want the upper springs binding), tires at 6psi and the sway bar detached. This is a killer setup and works really well for me on the slickrock. It provides good articulation on all 4 corners without being overly "tippy".

At the very least, try disconnecting your sway bar when crawling. On the R, you have to remove both links and pull it up out of the way or the bar will hit the upper trailing arm.

Thanks Paul, I'll save this info to my phone to always have with me.

 

[Doogle]

One of the first things I did to my R was raise the crossover rings 'a lot', see the link in my sig for details. This will soften your ride considerably. I also added quick disconnect sway bar links and run it disconnected most of the time. I hook it back up when higher speeds are expected (you know who U are ). Disconnecting the SB will also soften your ride, noticeably. I run my shocks on full soft, position 1, even with 2 spares.

Showing the SB and upper trailing arm interference potential Paul mentions -
View attachment 318953

Doogie - get a tilt bubble, the Talon's tilt table number is 37.3*. There's no reason to be freaked out at 20* and I didn't know where that was. Note that the tilt table number is static and we're dynamic, a slight bounce at 30* might do you in. Be careful ordering, mine is about 3" wide, the first one I ordered was 7".
View attachment 318954

I believe it was your posts on spring adjustments and sway-bar disconnect that I read, probably last year. I just never got around to trying adjustments. This tilt table I assume is degrees that the rubber may leave the road. And weight in the trunk, spare tire position, tire size, sway bar connected or not, all influence that number? Would that number also vary depending on whether you were going up hill vs down hill? Again, I know nothing about this stuff. Just trying to think through it.

 

[CID]

I believe it was your posts on spring adjustments and sway-bar disconnect that I read, probably last year. I just never got around to trying adjustments. This tilt table I assume is degrees that the rubber may leave the road. And weight in the trunk, spare tire position, tire size, sway bar connected or not, all influence that number? Would that number also vary depending on whether you were going up hill vs down hill? Again, I know nothing about this stuff. Just trying to think through it.

The tilt table number is only for side to side tippage, it has nothing to do with front to rear. Yes, everything you add or change from a stock Talon will change the actual tip over point, to an undeterminable degree. I don't have any idea when they'll go over backwards going uphill or tip over forward going downhill, I haven't seen any info on that.

With my two spares, I've really complicated my numbers but it's handled some insane cornering speeds without lifting so I'm gaining more confidence in the Talon's handling capabilities. I still get pretty wound up on side hills, 30* felt like 50*. Or maybe I'm just a scaredy cat.

Yep, whether the SB is connected or not is yet another variable. I've gotten used to the trophy truck handling, rolling over on the outside rear tire, with the SB disconnected but when I know I'll be going faster, it'll get reconnected.

 

[PaulF]

A stockish Talon will go 37* side to side and about 45* uphill and 50* down hill. I have an inclinometer program on my mounted tablet and have alarms set at 32* side to side and 40* front to back. I rarely set off the side/side alarms and don't ever think I have set off the front/back.

20* feels "tippy" (wife screams if I go much over that). 32* feels like you are going to fall over but you won't. 35* up hill feels like straight up and 40* down feels like you will flip over. None of these angles are dangerous when crawling, they just feel unsafe.

 

[Doogle]

I have an inclinometer program on my mounted tablet and have alarms set.
None of these angles are dangerous when crawling, they just feel unsafe.

I have no meters. My only alarms are the hair on the back of my neck and the height of my goose bumps. I wonder how much a meter might help. When going over an uneven ledge at an angle and one wheel is about to drop of more than the other. And the other set of wheels are doing their own unknown things.

And tall tires are great for clearing big rocks. But you may have raised your center of gravity 3 inches and cause yourself to get bigger goose bumps. Maybe side by sides should add air bags to level out these trying times.

 

[Dankathy]

Old guy once said "experience is that thing you have right after you needed it the worst".

 

[Doogle]

I may look into getting a meter. Even if dialed in to a particular machine, they are still static numbers. While moving, a bump here or a dip there could be the difference for sitting vertical or horizontal. I have run out of gas in most vehicles I've ever owned. I always say you don't know what empty is until you've been there. It's probably the same with tip overs. But I don't want to use experience to find out. Thanks for the feed back Paul and CID.

 

[bjniceguy]

what are the down sides with disconnecting the rear sway bar? Obviously have to slow don't on corners when going fast, but what else? I assume it lets you articulate more when crawling, but what about on trails?

 

[CID]

what are the down sides with disconnecting the rear sway bar? Obviously have to slow don't on corners when going fast, but what else? I assume it lets you articulate more when crawling, but what about on trails?

Most of my local riding is relatively slow trails in a high impact area, there's always the chance of incoming traffic. With my lower speeds, I never noticed that the SB was disconnected and appreciated the softer ride (a SB connects the left and right sides, both damping and spring rate, disconnecting it softens the ride noticeably, well worth it to me). My other summer riding is exploring the high country and it's so rocky and slow, no SB is necessary.

Jump ahead to Utah last spring. Holy Crap, I got real tired of rolling over on the outside rear tire, trophy truck style, in every corner and I wasn't haulin' butt but the roads are more open and the sight lines are much further out. I hooked that puppy back up (quick disconnect). Note that I have two spares (for solo desert exploring), so your handling will definitely be different. I can still carry respectable speeds with the SB disc, just have to put up with body roll.

You can see my white sway bar link in the up (disc) position. I rode about 2500 miles on my recent Utah trip and never hooked it up, it depends entirely on my 'mood'.

 

[Dankathy]

Most of my local riding is relatively slow trails in a high impact area, there's always the chance of incoming traffic. With my lower speeds, I never noticed that the SB was disconnected and appreciated the softer ride (a SB connects the left and right sides, both damping and spring rate, disconnecting it softens the ride noticeably, well worth it to me). My other summer riding is exploring the high country and it's so rocky and slow, no SB is necessary.

Jump ahead to Utah last spring. Holy Crap, I got real tired of rolling over on the outside rear tire, trophy truck style, in every corner and I wasn't haulin' butt but the roads are more open and the sight lines are much further out. I hooked that puppy back up (quick disconnect). Note that I have two spares (for solo desert exploring), so your handling will definitely be different. I can still carry respectable speeds with the SB disc, just have to put up with body roll.

You can see my white sway bar link in the up (disc) position. I rode about 2500 miles on my recent Utah trip and never hooked it up, it depends entirely on my 'mood'.

View attachment 319686

What disconnect are you using? Recomend it?

 

[CID]

@Dankathy

These are the only ones I know of, they could have done better but there's a choice of one. My biggest issue is the bolts don't fit the Honda holes tightly, they're a loose fit and depend on the tightness of the nuts. The Honda fittings are shouldered and fit tightly into the trailing arm and sway bar holes, the nuts only keep them from falling out, the 'structure' comes from the tight fit.

Honda Talon Sway Bar Disconnect - Quick Release Link

Our Honda Talon Sway Bar Disconnect Link quickly disconnects and swing up out of the way into a custom bracket for unrestricted axle articulation during off-road driving like rock crawling

www.andymccoyracecars.com

I said the same thing on a different day, post #5 here -

Dirt Road Fabrication Bed Extender/Spare/Rotopax Carrier on a Talon R

I usually ride solo so a spare seems like a good idea to me. I had seen the DRF unit and liked it but he hadn't finalized the 2 R and I was headed for Utah and Arizona in March so I had to find an alternative - that was the FactoryUTV spare carrier. My buddy @Lil_Steve had an extra front wheel...

hondasxs.com

 

[PaulF]

What disconnect are you using? Recomend it?

I had the AMR setup but hated it. They use SAE hardware and everything is sloppy as hell. 7/16 is not a good replacement for 12mm.

I took the AMR's off and fabbed my own with 12mm Heim joints on the bottom and used the stock links and upper joints...

 

[Smitty335]

I have no knowledge about settings for shocks and springs on my stock 2020 TalonR. I've not experimented in 700 miles of riding. I've been in some tipsy situations and wonder if different settings may have made things more stable and less exciting. Going over uneven ledges with one side dropping more than the other, would softer shock settings and different spring compressions help me? I haven't been to any high speed or sand areas yet, and don't think I will be anytime soon.

I run 1.5 inches of spring sag every where, in the slow speed rocks I run a soft slow compression setting with a fast rebound. In faster sand ect. I run a slow stiffer compression setting and much slower rebound. Pretty well leave my fast compression setting alone in most situations. I run Elka 5's on a P1 though. HA!

 

[Lil_Steve]

I had the AMR setup but hated it. They use SAE hardware and everything is sloppy as hell. 7/16 is not a good replacement for 12mm.

I took the AMR's off and fabbed my own with 12mm Heim joints on the bottom and used the stock links and upper joints...

View attachment 319689

View attachment 319690

I share the sentiment that AMR could have done a better job. Not trying to make more work for you but I'd bet you'd have a good bit of interest selling that heim joint lower conversion for the masses.

 

[CID]

Paul's new title - The Talon Whisperer. 😎

 

[PaulF]

I share the sentiment that AMR could have done a better job. Not trying to make more work for you but I'd bet you'd have a good bit of interest selling that heim joint lower conversion for the masses.

I don't have a proper machine shop for that. Took me an entire day just to fab mine. I throw it out there for those that want to build their own. Cost me less than $50, I bought my Heim joints here...

Bearings, Spherical Rod End Female M12 x 1.25 RH

DWTF-12-F, Bearings, Spherical Rod End, Female M12 x 1.25 RH Steel Housing, PTFE Race

midwestcontrol.com