The front differential in the I-4WD models is a limited slip variant, the I part of that equation uses the computer to determine when to apply the brake to a spinning wheel to allow up to 4x power to the opposite side with traction. That's how Honda has been pitching its operation to the press about the Talon.No reason debating over who knows more about i4wd when neither of us know the other.
I was just playing devils advocate, as I always do. Trying to point out potential problems. Since you apparently have first hand experience with the situation, was i correct to assume that losing one front axle means you lose power to both front tires due to being an open diff?
Like I said before, I'll probably like the system. I just like to think of all the pros and cons. For example when I bought my first new atv, the electric shift was a new option on the ranchers. I thought about it a lot, and decided that being able to shift without putting my feet under water (we have a lot of water crossings) was worth the extra $400 or whatever. However, I would never have done it if it didn't come with a wrench under the seat and the ability to manually shift it by hand. Can't tell you how many times I drove that thing with my hand down underneath. I hate buying new batteries, and they don't like to shift without a battery. Come to think of it, I had to pull start that thing a lot too LOL.
Without going back and listening to their sales pitch, I think you got that verbatim!The front differential in the I-4WD models is a limited slip variant, the I part of that equation uses the computer to determine when to apply the brake to a spinning wheel to allow up to 4x power to the opposite side with traction. That's how Honda has been pitching its operation to the press about the Talon.
I drove it 20 miles of difficult trails back to the trailer at the end of a 12 hour ride.Without going back and listening to their sales pitch, I think you got that verbatim!
I've heard them use that statement before, it sounds like it's memorized. One of those things Honda has given them a script for, that way they don't screw it up since salesmen don't really know how it works. That statement alone wouldn't convince me to buy into it.
How did the limited slip differential respond to your broken front axle?
Here is the engineering principle behind the front differential on page 7 the torque bias is explained.I drove it 20 miles of difficult trails back to the trailer at the end of a 12 hour ride.
I’m not sure if that’s what they are using on the Talon or i4wd but I can tell you that that type of differential is in the pioneer 1000 deluxe.Well holy crap! If that isn't an engineering marvel, I'm not sure what is. Love the principles in that thing. Really out of the box thinking. Are we sure that is what they are using up front on the i4wd machines?
Going to have to think more about it, but I think I like it. Like it as much as a knob you turn and it locks the front axle... I don't know?
I had no idea that's what they were using in the rear end.View attachment 97541
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There is a lot of friction between these parts. It seems like a heavy duty oil would maybe help extend the life. The picture below is a close-up shot of the scratches that came from the two friction surfaces.
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It is in the front and rear for the pioneer 1000 with out i4wd. We didn’t know that we had limited slip differentials in the front and rear because it still seems to spin one wheel very easily.I had no idea that's what they were using in the rear end.
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Same style limited slip in the standard or LE pioneer, F & R. The only difference between them is the LE front diff is missing the locking collar for 4Lock.It is in the front and rear for the pioneer 1000 with out i4wd. We didn’t know that we had limited slip differentials in the front and rear because it still seems to spin one wheel very easily.
I am a current RZR XP1k owner, eyeing the Talon for a possible future machine. I've owned Honda dirt bikes before and think Honda offers a good quality product. The DCT trans is what has me most interested, although I understand the Pioneer had some early clutch issues with the DCT. Hopefully that is all straightened out for the Talon.
Going along with the thread title, things I either don't like OR have questions on:
1) on the R model, the rear trailing arm hangs a little low and WILL get hung up in certain terrains. I experienced this in my older RZR XP 900 which had lower trailing arms also
2) should have come with 30" tires and the appropriate gearing to go with those tires. Then you have the option of staying 30" or upgrading to 32" without risking burning up clutches. A big question is, how low will the LOW gear be, and how will the trans/clutches hold up to slow paced rock crawling and hill climbing, especially with a 30" tire. I want to run a 30-32" tire without having to do a costly gear reduction.
3) don't care for the what appears to be different offset wheels front and rear. I run 5+2 wheels currently, and most likely will run something similar on the Talon. The front will likely be fairly wider with a setup like this. I like to run all 4 wheels and tires the same size, ie. 30x10x14 on 5+2 wheels all 4 corners. Does anyone know the wheel bolt pattern on the Talon? I may just try bolting up my current 30" Roctanes on 4/156 wheels if the bolt pattern is the same and IF the 14" wheels clear the supposedly larger brakes. If not, time for a new 15" wheel/tire set. The 28's will have to go instantly.
4) I have mixed feelings on i4wd, although I've read good reviews on it so maybe it functions just as good as a true locker. I would be happy with a more simplistic locking front diff.
5) Dislike the motorcycle battery. Should have copied Popo and put in an automotive sized battery. For the current Pioneer owners, I assume it uses a motorcycle battery also. Not sure what the stator output is on these, but how do the current Pioneer 1k's do with added light bars and stereos?
6) Why no spin on oil filter? It appears to use a canister type filter. Maybe they filter better, but no one can argue that a spin on oil filter is easier to maintain.
7) Air filter setup from what I can tell in pictures, looks very similar to my old RZR 900 XP. Sure, it's a decent setup and looks easily accessible, but there are better setups. It looks like when you pull the old filter out, you'll be dumping dirt on the clean air side of the filter box/intake. Then you have to clean all of that up real good before installing new filter. I like the current RZR XP1k filter setup quite well.
8) for the money these will probably be, would have liked to see Arched A-arms and arched radius rods come stock.
Don't get me wrong, aside from all of those questions, I still want one!! It's a Honda and it has DCT. Good stuff. If low gear comes geared low enough to not burn up clutches I'll be happy. I will probably watch reviews on it the first year though, and possibly buy a 2nd year model. I'm sure my questions will be answered after the first year.
#5.. Gotcha. Sounds Like I need to jump over to the Pioneer 1k forum and do some reading. I like to run a winch, light bar, reverse light, and a basic stereo. Sounds like this may be an issue...losing tranny function definitely not a good thing!!Point #2 you are right especially now Rzr's are coming with 32in tires and geared to turn them they fell flat on that maybe next year?
Point #5 They don't do well with add-ons to the tiny stock battery I have a winch, light bar and soundbar wired to mine once the voltage drops you lose the tranny. We are having to install auto-sized 2nd batteries to compensate draw from accessories January mine will be getting a Optima Yellow top installed by the user KnuckleDeep.
Point #6 I agree i like popo's spin on filter much easier to spin on hand tighten and go instead of 2 cartridge filters the current 1000 has and 3 drain plugs.
Point #7 if you don't like that don't look at the Pioneer 1k air filter removal it doesn't make sense.
2nd aux battery and an isolator. No big deal. Run all accessories off six battery. Only run factory system on main battery. Never have issues with the stock system being low on voltage for transmission solenoids.#5.. Gotcha. Sounds Like I need to jump over to the Pioneer 1k forum and do some reading. I like to run a winch, light bar, reverse light, and a basic stereo. Sounds like this may be an issue...losing tranny function definitely not a good thing!!