P1000 White Lightning Build

snuffnwhisky submitted a new Garage Item:

White Lightning Build

Bought her 2 weeks ago. Had a full page s*** list the first night. Didn't really know about Honda having a sxs or much about sxs's until I talked to my brother about getting one. He works at the local Honda shop... lucky me! Started reading this forum after talking to him and out of the blue a guy at work wanted a four-wheeler and I had one... so it begins!

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[Zmorris83]

Ive always had the red alto and kolene steels in my drag cars. Just need someone to crack the computer and this could all be changed easily. Its programmed to lower psi to smooth it out.

Maybe we could get some of the guys together and hammer out the ECU with winols.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Maybe we could get some of the guys together and hammer out the ECU with winols.

Something like that will probably be next. Might be able to talk with guys that tune the honda bikes and maybe send someone a computer to see what could be done.

 

[Delton]

Does pc have any kind of map clamp? If not whacha gonna do for that?

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Does pc have any kind of map clamp? If not whacha gonna do for that?

Use a normal GM map sensor. 0-5v reference. It has a nipple for a hose or direct plugin.

 

[Delton]

Use a normal GM map sensor. 0-5v reference. It has a nipple for a hose or direct plugin.

Those are good for what? 3bars? Thats more than enough for what those stock eternals will handle.
If i had time (and resources) id like to see if fic controller from aem could be adapted to work. Itd put pc to shame.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Those are good for what? 3bars? Thats more than enough for what those stock eternals will handle.
If i had time (and resources) id like to see if fic controller from aem could be adapted to work. Itd put pc to shame.

The FIC controller looks pretty cool piggybacking. I'm only thinking 110-120 hp so the PCV should handle that with stock fueling but will have to look into that system more.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Those are good for what? 3bars?

Got them for whatever u want lol... I don't have a replacement block so thinking 8 psi max.

 

[Delton]

The FIC controller looks pretty cool piggybacking. I'm only thinking 110-120 hp so the PCV should handle that with stock fueling but will have to look into that system more.

I might could be persuaded to loan you one if youre interested. If it works just buy a new one and give old one back. Id like to one day resurrect my Neon.
Fic is awesome. Does everything you need...map clamp, ignition retard, etc. Has seperate control for up to 4 more injectors if i remember correctly.

 

[Delton]

I also have a missing link laying around somewhere but not sure if p1k map sensor would work with it.

 

[Neohio]

Any thought to a stand alone like microsquirt?

 

[Delton]

Any thought to a stand alone like microsquirt?

Im sure Snuff could handle it no problem but ill never install another one. Talk about a headache for technology challenged people like myself. Had to teach car how to run all over again lol

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Any thought to a stand alone like microsquirt?

With the DCT, don't think a standalone would work.

 

[Delton]

Holler if you become interested.

I dont think baby girl is gonna be eating any gt's any time soon lol

 

[Zmorris83]

8 psi boost gives a relative fuel pressure of 50psi. 110hp is going to max out injectors at the NA AFR. That's not a good idea. (I'm assuming 4 bar stock fuel pressure and the 55% duty cycle you stated before.) Contrary to popular wisdom, lean is not mean. Lean destroys parts and makes less power. I would want to be at .80 lambda (.82 at the leanest) at WOT using "93 octane" E10 gas. Oxygenated, ethanol and especially methanol fuels won't be possible without significant fuel flow increase. An adjustable base/rate boost reference regulator would be the simplest solution. (To avoid altering part throttle fuel pressure it would have to be plumbed into the factory fuel return which could be slightly challenging considering that it is in the tank.) That in tandem with placing the IAT before the IC should allow the use of the factory ecu.

Another option would be an auxiliary Methanol fuel system direct port injected. You would be able to probably still run "87" E10 and definitely 87 E0. This is probably the route I will take as it would completely eliminate the need for an intercooler and simultaneously solve the octane and timing issue.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

8 psi boost gives a relative fuel pressure of 50psi. 110hp is going to max out injectors at the NA AFR. That's not a good idea. (I'm assuming 4 bar stock fuel pressure and the 55% duty cycle you stated before.) Contrary to popular wisdom, lean is not mean. Lean destroys parts and makes less power. I would want to be at .80 lambda (.82 at the leanest) at WOT using "93 octane" E10 gas. Oxygenated, ethanol and especially methanol fuels won't be possible without significant fuel flow increase. An adjustable base/rate boost reference regulator would be the simplest solution. (To avoid altering part throttle fuel pressure it would have to be plumbed into the factory fuel return which could be slightly challenging considering that it is in the tank.) That in tandem with placing the IAT before the IC should allow the use of the factory ecu.

Another option would be an auxiliary Methanol fuel system direct port injected. You would be able to probably still run "87" E10 and definitely 87 E0. This is probably the route I will take as it would completely eliminate the need for an intercooler and simultaneously solve the octane and timing issue.

48-53 psi is the stock spec on pressure. Pretty sure I was at 55% duty cycle with the Africa Twin cam, intake and exhaust with lamba at 0.90. I do need to verify that again as that was a year ago. Africa twin motor is 94 hp so I should be right about there already. Lamba does need to be around 0.80 like you said. Duty cycle needs to stay below 90%, ideally 80%. I haven't researched but there is probably a larger injector that will drop in if I had to have it. The boost reference regulator would help a little on tuning but it can't really makeup for a larger injector plus the pump has to be changed for a higher pressure to do that. The motor is only 10:1 and I always run 93. With good intercooler temps and pull timing it should be pretty good on pump gas. I've got a good plug viewer to look for detonation.

 

[Zmorris83]

48-53 psi is the stock spec on pressure. Pretty sure I was at 55% duty cycle with the Africa Twin cam, intake and exhaust with lamba at 0.90. I do need to verify that again as that was a year ago. Africa twin motor is 94 hp so I should be right about there already. Lamba does need to be around 0.80 like you said. Duty cycle needs to stay below 90%, ideally 80%. I haven't researched but there is probably a larger injector that will drop in if I had to have it. The boost reference regulator would help a little on tuning but it can't really makeup for a larger injector plus the pump has to be changed for a higher pressure to do that. The motor is only 10:1 and I always run 93. With good intercooler temps and pull timing it should be pretty good on pump gas. I've got a good plug viewer to look for detonation.

48 to 53 is worse than 58 proportionately to 8 psi boost. Your relative pressure will drop even more percentage.

.9 lambda after the cam swap is very surprising with no tune. Did you happen to datalog kPa, IPW and AFR before the cam? With the difference in fuel flow demand between 72 and 94 hp I would expect a higher lambda. That is a massive change in peak power. I'm curious where the discrepancy is.

 

[Zmorris83]

Fuel pressure, although not directly proportionate to injector flow, does make a significant difference and I would be really, really, really shocked if the pump couldn't flow a measly 110hp at 61 psi.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

48 to 53 is worse than 58 proportionately to 8 psi boost. Your relative pressure will drop even more percentage.

.9 lambda after the cam swap is very surprising with no tune. Did you happen to datalog kPa, IPW and AFR before the cam? With the difference in fuel flow demand between 72 and 94 hp I would expect a higher lambda. That is a massive change in peak power. I'm curious where the discrepancy is.

I have the powercommander and autotune. +30% more fuel at 8k over the stock map with my setting of 0.90 lamba and a few more degrees of timing with the engine mods.

 

[Zmorris83]

I have the powercommander and autotune. +30% more fuel at 8k over the stock map with my setting of 0.90 lamba and a few more degrees of timing with the engine mods.

That's exactly what would be expected from 72 to 94.

If you're at 94 hp and 55% IPW, fuel is definitely not an issue. Even E85 would be under 95% IPW at 120hp with boost referenced fuel pressure.

 

[Zmorris83]

I have the powercommander and autotune. +30% more fuel at 8k over the stock map with my setting of 0.90 lamba and a few more degrees of timing with the engine mods.

What's the factory timing map like?