P500 Who wants a diff. Lock ?

[Bastardchild]

Ok guys, here is what I can tell you about the Torq-Locker from Torq masters.

First, they have finished there testing on 3D printed versions and are now in limited prodution. They well be sending out these preproduction versions to a select few for testing and feedback. Depending on how long the testing takes and any fine tuning they may have to make they will then go into full production. All though they can not give me an actually date of release yet, I'm guesstimating by mid summer the locker should be available to the public. The locker for the P5 is not much different than the one for the can-am's so they are pretty confindent not much will need to be done after the testing is complete.

Hopefully this will help appease some of your minds...lol.
Still doesn't make it available any faster though...double lol!

I will gladly test a locker in the front of mine! It would be all mud testing though. Im sure they would want feedback on how it does on mountain trails too.

 

[jay_man81]

I’m pretty sure they all ready have their testers picked...lol.

 

[Livinthelegend]

Ok guys, here is what I can tell you about the Torq-Locker from Torq masters.

First, they have finished there testing on 3D printed versions and are now in limited prodution. They well be sending out these preproduction versions to a select few (whom they all ready have picked...sorry guys) for testing and feedback. Depending on how long the testing takes and any fine tuning they may have to make they will then go into full production. All though they can not give me an actually date of release yet, I'm guesstimating by mid summer the locker should be available to the public. The locker for the P5 is not much different than the one for the can-am's so they are pretty confindent not much will need to be done after the testing is complete.

Hopefully this will help appease some of your minds...lol.
Still doesn't make it available any faster though...double lol!

When do you think you will get your test locker?

And tell them you will need two for proper testing. I will bring the beer.

 

[jay_man81]

I don’t drink so make it a birch beer for me...lol.

Not sure. In a couple weeks I hope. Preferably in time to have it installed for the takeover!

 

[hondasrule]

I am going to go into geek mode temporarily , so please forgive me.

I am just trying to clear up any confusion !


I am posting this to help everyone understand how you calculate the number of rotations of a inside tire vs outside tire on a turning radius.
First you need to figure out the cercumference of the tire.
You take the tire diameter and multiply it by pi (pi=3.14)
26"x3.14=81.68


I used the center of the outside tire as my turning radius.

Now we will calculate the circumference of the turning radius of the outside tire (turning radius is 12.8' or 153.6")

1) Multiply the turning radius by 2 and that will give you the turning radius diameter.
153.6x2=307.2" (turning radius diameter)

2) Now multiply the turning radius diameter by pi
307.2x3.14=965.097" this is the cercumference of the outside turning radius.

Now we will figure out how many revolutions it will take to cover 965.097" with a tire that has a cercumference of 81.68 (26" diameter tire)

3) divide 965.097 by 81.68 and this will give you the revolutions of the outside tire if you make 1 full revolution (360* on a turning radius) 965.097/81.68=11.82


Now we will calculate the circumference of the turning radius of the inside tire.

We are going to use 42" width on the Pioneer 500 (this is the distance from the center of one tire to the center of the other tire !

1) Subtract 42" from the outside turning radius.
153.6"-42"=111.6"

2) now multiply that number by 2 and this will be your inside turning radius diameter.
111.6x2=223.2

3) Now multiply the turning radius diameter by pi
223.2x3.14=701.2" this is the cercumference of the inside turning radius.

Now we will figure out how many revolutions it will take to cover 701.2" with a tire that has a cercumference of 81.68 (26" diameter tire)

4) divide 701.2 by 81.68 and this will give you the revolutions of the inside tire if you make 1 full revolution (360* on a turning radius) 701.2/81.68=8.585

Now we have the revolutions of the outside tire (11.82) and the revolutions of the inside tire (8.585)

The difference in revolution from the outside tire vs inside tire is 3.235 turns !
11.82-8.585=3.235

Something not right! My machine would be hopping in turns and dragging one front wheel around the corner. which it is not. Also if that is the case then the rear axle being full time locked would chew tires right off in short order also.
I know we are missing some important info like steering angles and a bunch of other important stuff.
Mabey you could mark the tires and count the turns from left to right for us. in a real world test.
I would love to know what you come up with.

 

[pFive]

Things are different when you have 100% traction with no tire scrub. I know I cant turn around in my yard with my rear 30" Tractor tires without plowing up dirt.

 

[Chooglin]

All I can say at this point is , those who want to go with a spool , use a spool and those who want to go with a Locker , use a locker !

 

[hondasrule]

All I can say at this point is , those who want to go with a spool , use a spool and those who want to go with a Locker , use a locker !

Yep I second that!!!! either way lets get out and ride and have some fun!

 

[Chooglin]

Yep I second that!!!! either way lets get out and ride and have some fun!

Indeed , I wish we could get some warmer weather !

 

[Mudder]

That just cracked me up! Was not expecting that...LMAO!!!

My subconscious slipped out, I woulld definitely buy a SxS Lock ‘Er Up” shirt with a pic of a locker. Could also say..”What Diff Does It Make?...A Hella of a Lot!

 

[Wallace]

Indeed , I wish we could get some warmer weather !

68 and sunny here. Got to do some yard work.

 

[Chooglin]

68 and sunny here. Got to do some yard work.View attachment 68909

I would love that right about now , we are going to hit 50* on Sunday , so that will be nice. I have so much to do before Takeover but I hate the cold and can't get anything done !

 

[GRANITE]

Is anyone packing fuel cans for the p5. I thought jackal said you didn’t need them ?

 

[Livinthelegend]

Is anyone packing fuel cans for the p5. I thought jackal said you didn’t need them ?

I never go out on big rides without extra fuel. Better to have and not need than need and not have.

 

[JWB]

**EDIT** There's a follow-up to this initial review after inflating the tires. Read on!
Well..... I installed the spool today. Unfortunately for me, a spool is not for me. I turned the machine around in the shop, in 2wd, and immediately noted that the steering was very heavy, particularly backing up, and if not moving- no way. That's on a cement floor, and I have power steering. I drove it out onto our very hard packed gravel yard- same deal- keep in mind, I run my Rip-Saw RT's very soft, and the rip-saws grip like pit-bulls on hard pack, pavement, rock, or ground they can sink their teeth into... So the spool isn't going to work for my riding style. We already know what a beast the machine will be driving all four wheels, so I don't think I need to go and run it through any mud holes or anything like that, cuz the most important thing to me was how it would react in tight trail situations with good traction. Now for the guys that love riding mud, the spool will be a very inexpensive alternative to the locker. I'm feeling a little concerned that the locker will have some of the same issues- particularly in 4wd, so I may have to 're-learn' my driving habits, as I almost always ride in 4wd...
As far as the install, it went very smoothly, the retaining pin for the cross pin came out without issue, and the spool itself fit really really good, with all the clearances really close. Something else I verified while I had the diff apart, the ring gear has 53 teeth, and the pinion 13 teeth for a calculated ratio of 4.08:1 (rounded up). I then verified that number by turning the driveshaft and counting the axle turns.
So, tomorrow I'm gonna tear it down again, and remove the spool.
Looking forward to trying the auto locker!....Next!

 

[Chooglin]

Well..... I installed the spool today. Unfortunately for me, a spool is not for me. I turned the machine around in the shop, in 2wd, and immediately noted that the steering was very heavy, particularly backing up, and if not moving- no way. That's on a cement floor, and I have power steering. I drove it out onto our very hard packed gravel yard- same deal- keep in mind, I run my Rip-Saw RT's very soft, and the rip-saws grip like pit-bulls on hard pack, pavement, rock, or ground they can sink their teeth into... So the spool isn't going to work for my riding style. We already know what a beast the machine will be driving all four wheels, so I don't think I need to go and run it through any mud holes or anything like that, cuz the most important thing to me was how it would react in tight trail situations with good traction. Now for the guys that love riding mud, the spool will be a very inexpensive alternative to the locker. I'm feeling a little concerned that the locker will have some of the same issues- particularly in 4wd, so I may have to 're-learn' my driving habits, as I almost always ride in 4wd...
As far as the install, it went very smoothly, the retaining pin for the cross pin came out without issue, and the spool itself fit really really good, with all the clearances really close. Something else I verified while I had the diff apart, the ring gear has 53 teeth, and the pinion 13 teeth for a calculated ratio of 4.08:1 (rounded up). I then verified that number by turning the driveshaft and counting the axle turns.
So, tomorrow I'm gonna tear it down again, and remove the spool.
Looking forward to trying the locker!....Next!

Thanks for posting your honest thought's @JWB, my biggest concern with both the locker and spool , is how it will act in 2wd (particularly on pavement). I'm not to concerned with 4wd , that's what the lever on the dash is for. The only time I use 4wd is when it's needed , otherwise, my machine is in 2wd !

 

[JWB]

Well..... I installed the spool today. Unfortunately for me, a spool is not for me. I turned the machine around in the shop, in 2wd, and immediately noted that the steering was very heavy, particularly backing up, and if not moving- no way. That's on a cement floor, and I have power steering. I drove it out onto our very hard packed gravel yard- same deal- keep in mind, I run my Rip-Saw RT's very soft, and the rip-saws grip like pit-bulls on hard pack, pavement, rock, or ground they can sink their teeth into... So the spool isn't going to work for my riding style. We already know what a beast the machine will be driving all four wheels, so I don't think I need to go and run it through any mud holes or anything like that, cuz the most important thing to me was how it would react in tight trail situations with good traction. Now for the guys that love riding mud, the spool will be a very inexpensive alternative to the locker. I'm feeling a little concerned that the locker will have some of the same issues- particularly in 4wd, so I may have to 're-learn' my driving habits, as I almost always ride in 4wd...
As far as the install, it went very smoothly, the retaining pin for the cross pin came out without issue, and the spool itself fit really really good, with all the clearances really close. Something else I verified while I had the diff apart, the ring gear has 53 teeth, and the pinion 13 teeth for a calculated ratio of 4.08:1 (rounded up). I then verified that number by turning the driveshaft and counting the axle turns.
So, tomorrow I'm gonna tear it down again, and remove the spool.
Looking forward to trying the locker!....Next!

After re-reading what I've posted, and reflecting for a few minutes, it didn't occur to me to air-up my tires a bit to see if that helps. I have 2-3 psi in them now, so I'll try 6psi in the front, and 7 in the rear- get them 'on their toes' so to speak, and give it one more shot. I'm thinking that with the locked front end, I can sacrifice a bit of traction.
I'll let y'all know tomorrow

 

[JWB]

Thanks for posting your honest thought's @JWB, my biggest concern with both the locker and spool , is how it will act in 2wd (particularly on pavement). I'm not to concerned with 4wd , that's what the lever on the dash is for. The only time I use 4wd is when it's needed , otherwise, my machine is in 2wd !

I promised to share the experience- no frills or b.s., and I can tell you all it was a real let down.... I was really hoping it would steer better. I'll try pumping up the tires, and share the results...

 

[hondasrule]

After reading what I've posted, and reflecting for a few minutes, it didn't occur to me to air-up my tires a bit to see if that helps. I have 2-3 psi in them now, so I'll try 6psi in the front, and 7 in the rear- get them 'on their toes' so to speak, and give it one more shot. I'm thinking that with the locked front end, I can sacrifice a bit of traction.
I'll let y'all know tomorrow

Hi JWB.
Thanks for going through the install process and giving it a shot for us. I appreciate your open opinion and honesty. I think this kind of testing feedback is important so we can know what to expect when we make the changes to our machines. I too can’t wait to hear the feedback from the torque masters vrs spool.
When I put spool in I aired up tires from 5.0 to 6.5. I run the mayhem’s 26 in. and they do have a crest on top of the tire.
Let us know if airing up tires changed the way it steers.

 

[JWB]

Hi JWB.
Thanks for going through the install process and giving it a shot for us. I appreciate your open opinion and honesty. I think this kind of testing feedback is important so we can know what to expect when we make the changes to our machines. I too can’t wait to hear the feedback from the torque masters vrs spool.
When I put spool in I aired up tires from 5.0 to 6.5. I run the mayhem’s 26 in. and they do have a crest on top of the tire.
Let us know if airing up tires changed the way it steers.

I Just did it. Pumped up to 8 psi front and rear. ***NIGHT & DAY DIFFERENCE***!!! Still heavy-er to heavy on the hard pack grippy stuff making full lock turns and going slow, but tolerable. Ran it out into the field- soft ground, not muddy, and did some ah- maneuvers. If you hadn't driven the machine before, you absolutely would not comment that it's hard to steer... Keep in mind I have power steering. To me, there's very little difference in feel between 2wd & 4wd in that situation. So here's the deal- I'm leaving the spool in, and I'm going to put the machine all back together, and go ride some of my trails. I will post my thoughts tonight, but I have to say now, that it now functions pretty much how I was expecting, and hoping for. As far as tire pressure, I can easily adjust to trail conditions if needed cuz I have an on-board air supply. Now on to some riding!
**I'm going to edit my initial impression to reflect the change- just in case someone reads it, and stops there.**