P1000 30 Amp fuse Winch

BeardedTexan

BeardedTexan

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Need some advise on my Pioneer 1000 when using my winch. I have the dual battery setup and my wench is ran to the accessory battery.

Issue is that when a load is put on the wench my 30 Amp fuse will blow. Simple fix I'm thinking is to change out the inline fuse with a 40 or 50? I've checked and there are no grounding issues.

Thanks in advance
20200628 084418
 
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NTCPrezJB

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Need some advise on my Pioneer 1000 when using my wench. I have the dual battery setup and my wench is ran to the accessory battery.

Issue is that when a load is put on the wench my 30 Amp fuse will blow. Simple fix Im thinking is to change out the inline fuse with a 40 or 50? I've checked and there are no grounding issues.

Thanks in advanceView attachment 212810
I'd find the max draw for your particular winch and go from there. I think they are far over a 30 amp fuse likely over 100 over it or more.
 
BeardedTexan

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I'd find the max draw for your particular winch and go from there. I think they are far over a 30 amp fuse likely over 100 over it or more.
I should have stated which one I installed. I purchased it from the Honda SxS online store.
15948332995442891634262326227849
 
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Neohio

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I don't think you have it wired correctly.
Can you share some pics of the wiring?
The big thick wires do not get fused.
 
BeardedTexan

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Correct my spelling first. I meant *winch*
So tracing the fuse that is having issues is my inline fuse for my switch panel. To note only radio was playing and my SXS was turned on. Light bar was not turned on.

My radio system is the SSV works and was not turned full blast.

20200715 122727
20200715 122923 20200715 122800
 
TxDoc

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Call the Warn toll free customer service number. Will only take a minute. They recommend no fuse or a simple kill switch.

A Warn 4500 pound winch pulls around 20 amps on a no load draw. And about 250 amps on a full load.

At startup you'll draw more current than you expect.

Know that fusing a winch might mean that they'll open when you're operating it. A Warn M8000 can draw as much as 400 amps at max load.


So you need to size it to tolerate your winch's max current for whatever length of time you think you'll need it to. You figure out the right type, fast acting or time delay, and rated value from their curves. A fast blow type might be specified to open at 150% of rated value in 300 seconds, so you'd have to select something in the 250A to 350A range for it not to open routinely on long pulls, for example. Hard to think you'd need to run your winch at max current for more than 5 minutes but still you need to consider that there's a tolerance to the current and time ratings.


This type of fuse might open at 10x rated value within 1/10th of a second and along the curve it will give you typical operation, so an over current of 5x might cause it to open at 1 second, etc. This is where time delay types might be considered. They are design to tolerate a large in rush for a while to accommodate things like motor starting.

For a winch this isn't really useful because the draw is sustained for minutes while a motor might take some number of second to start up before settling.


Problem with fusing is that the value you select will only really protect against cable shorts and not equipment issues. IOW, a failing solenoid could draw 200A and generate a lot of heat, causing it to become an issue and maybe catch fire without ever opening a fuse sized not to blow under normal operation. So a fuse seems to me to be incomplete protection and in a way false security if it lulls you into infrequent maintenance and inspections.


A disconnect or kill switch like would be a good option, if something does go wrong you pull the plug. So this along with a fuse to protect if a cable is cut or shorted might be the best way.




You could use something like this if you just have to have it. But, again, at lower current draws it won't save you.



Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
 
NTCPrezJB

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Correct my spelling first. I meant *winch*
So tracing the fuse that is having issues is my inline fuse for my switch panel. To note only radio was playing and my SXS was turned on. Light bar was not turned on.

My radio system is the SSV works and was not turned full blast.

View attachment 212824 View attachment 212825 View attachment 212826
What's the smaller red wire on your winch contact block (top photo) going to?
The main red/black wires are typically wired direct to the battery...or red to positive battery terminal and black to frame ground.
The yellow/blue wires to the winch.
The other little connector off the contact block is the winch switch and key on power typically.
 
BeardedTexan

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What's the smaller red wire on your winch contact block (top photo) going to?
The main red/black wires are typically wired direct to the battery...or red to positive battery terminal and black to frame ground.
The yellow/blue wires to the winch.
The other little connector off the contact block is the winch switch and key on power typically.
Im pretty sure that is the positive lead for the wireless remote module that the winch uses. Let me go back and double check that!
 
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BeardedTexan

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Call the Warn toll free customer service number. Will only take a minute. They recommend no fuse or a simple kill switch.

A Warn 4500 pound winch pulls around 20 amps on a no load draw. And about 250 amps on a full load.

At startup you'll draw more current than you expect.

Know that fusing a winch might mean that they'll open when you're operating it. A Warn M8000 can draw as much as 400 amps at max load.


So you need to size it to tolerate your winch's max current for whatever length of time you think you'll need it to. You figure out the right type, fast acting or time delay, and rated value from their curves. A fast blow type might be specified to open at 150% of rated value in 300 seconds, so you'd have to select something in the 250A to 350A range for it not to open routinely on long pulls, for example. Hard to think you'd need to run your winch at max current for more than 5 minutes but still you need to consider that there's a tolerance to the current and time ratings.


This type of fuse might open at 10x rated value within 1/10th of a second and along the curve it will give you typical operation, so an over current of 5x might cause it to open at 1 second, etc. This is where time delay types might be considered. They are design to tolerate a large in rush for a while to accommodate things like motor starting.

For a winch this isn't really useful because the draw is sustained for minutes while a motor might take some number of second to start up before settling.


Problem with fusing is that the value you select will only really protect against cable shorts and not equipment issues. IOW, a failing solenoid could draw 200A and generate a lot of heat, causing it to become an issue and maybe catch fire without ever opening a fuse sized not to blow under normal operation. So a fuse seems to me to be incomplete protection and in a way false security if it lulls you into infrequent maintenance and inspections.


A disconnect or kill switch like would be a good option, if something does go wrong you pull the plug. So this along with a fuse to protect if a cable is cut or shorted might be the best way.




You could use something like this if you just have to have it. But, again, at lower current draws it won't save you.



Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
That's very informative and will read a few more times to digest the information you provided! Very much appreciated sir.
 
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BeardedTexan

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Now looks like a rats nest but confirmed the small red wire is attached to the winch relay to provide 12v to the wireless remote module.

Notice that my main positive and negative terminal cables are connected to the BUS bar. Do I connect them directly to main battery and add the kill switch suggested?

Sorry for the poor picture and or description. Appreciate the help in advance.

20200715 131350
 
BigOL3

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Need some advise on my Pioneer 1000 when using my wench. I have the dual battery setup and my wench is ran to the accessory battery.

Issue is that when a load is put on the wench my 30 Amp fuse will blow. Simple fix Im thinking is to change out the inline fuse with a 40 or 50? I've checked and there are no grounding issues.

Thanks in advance
Better watch out, those young wenches can get you in a LOT of trouble ........ LOL
 
Hondasxs

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I have sooo many questions. I cant see from the pics.
  1. What kind of bus bar is that?
  2. Do you know its amp limits?
  3. What wire is feeding the bus? Is there a large gauge + & - connected to the second battery to the bus?
  4. Is the second battery independently grounded to the frame? or back to the primary battery? I dont see it.
  5. Also, If you leave the wireless box (red wire) on a constant, I will run the battery dead over time. Need a key-on source.
  6. Finally, why are you not using the post covers? So many exposed points! Ya, I know they are a PITA.
 
Smitty335

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I have sooo many questions. I cant see from the pics.
  1. What kind of bus bar is that?
  2. Do you know its amp limits?
  3. What wire is feeding the bus? Is there a large gauge + & - connected to the second battery to the bus?
  4. Is the second battery independently grounded to the frame? or back to the primary battery? I dont see it.
  5. Also, If you leave the wireless box (red wire) on a constant, I will run the battery dead over time. Need a key-on source.
  6. Finally, why are you not using the post covers? So many exposed points! Ya, I know they are a PITA.
Dang! Just hammer a guy! HA!
 
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BeardedTexan

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1. Bus bar was ordered the the SXS thread 250A
2. I've contacted Viper for the specs
3. Used the UTV dual battery Kit
4. Correct, grounded independently to the frame
5. The red wire is on a key resource. Not powered on unless my switch on my panel is turned on
6. Each post does have a cover but in an effort to have my rig wrapped i had to completely remove the front end. Just pieced it back together and is still in the works. Not only to they have covers but each post is treated with protective chemical to prevent build up.

Not looking for style points. I have this one issue I was asking for friendly advise. Every aspect of this rig works and has up to this minor hiccup on the fuse blowing when stressed.

Appreciate your advice on removing from BUS. Ill connect directly to battery to improve performance 👍

20200708 184547
 
Hondasxs

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Below is the current draw for your winch.

I would move the winch main + & - direct to the second battery.
The small red wire on the contractor, you said this is the wireless system and the one that keeps blowing the fuse, correct? It needs to be moved and put to a key-on source. OR temporarily moved off the contactor until you can get it on a key-on source.

I have spoken about winch shock before. I don't recommend hooking anything up to the winch contactor because of its amp draw. It will pull a heavy load and slam closed leaving the current hanging. Thus in return, it will/could shock other accessories lines.

Let me know.




1594857242514
 
Smitty335

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Below is the current draw for your winch.

I would move the winch main + & - direct to the second battery.
The small red wire on the contractor, you said this is the wireless system and the one that keeps blowing the fuse, correct? It needs to be moved and put to a key-on source. OR temporarily moved off the contactor until you can get it on a key-on source.

I have spoken about winch shock before. I don't recommend hooking anything up to the winch contactor because of its amp draw. It will pull a heavy load and slam closed leaving the current hanging. Thus in return, it will/could shock other accessories lines.

Let me know.




View attachment 212856
Thanks!
 
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BeardedTexan

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Below is the current draw for your winch.

I would move the winch main + & - direct to the second battery.
The small red wire on the contractor, you said this is the wireless system and the one that keeps blowing the fuse, correct? It needs to be moved and put to a key-on source. OR temporarily moved off the contactor until you can get it on a key-on source.

I have spoken about winch shock before. I don't recommend hooking anything up to the winch contactor because of its amp draw. It will pull a heavy load and slam closed leaving the current hanging. Thus in return, it will/could shock other accessories lines.

Let me know.




View attachment 212856
Very helpful and informative! I've taken immediate action on moving the + & - to the secondary battery. I have disconnected the wireless device for my winch off the contactor.

Now my goal is to locate the accessory [key-on] as you suggested.

The fuse im having trouble with is the inline fuse that came with my switch panel I bought directly from Honda.

My thoughts are that I have all my accessories ran to my switch panel, BUS, and secondary battery to avoid draining the main battery. The accessories I have are (I do not run them all at once)

•ssv works sound system
•light bar ( quantity 1)
•winch

Volt meter on my switch panel when SXS motor is powered on is 13.9 v and at rest 12.8.

If at rest < motor not powered on> I hit the winch and it drops from 12.8 v to 12. 4 ish to 12.2

Don't mean to ramble but with the secondary battery and the UTV dual battery kit I did not need to worry about connecting to main battery.

Questions/ summary

1. Does my dual battery act as one and charge?
2. If acting as one with dual battery kit would it matter which battery I connect directly to?
3. Do you have an idea location for me to look for the key-on source?

Thank you again for your time and knowledge!
 

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