Can-Am 50" SxS

[mbjeepxj]

Both systems will lose momentum and both would require 3 wheels spinning to work. Since the rear diff is locked, and the front is locked to the rear, then you'd absolutely have to spin both rear tires and one front tire for there to be any difference in wheel speed for either setup to engage. Both systems take a certain amount of time to engage

The Honda i4WD system works similarly to Jeep's own brake traction control that was introduced in the Wrangler in 2007 which they call BLD (brake-lock differential).
The sensitivity of wheel speed sensors and the speed of the computer response will determine how much time it takes to apply the brake to the wheel that lost traction and transfer power to the opposite wheel with traction, but it should work just fine at any speed or amount of throttle input if it's anything like the Jeep system.
Here's some good footage of the Jeep BLD in action:

It doesn't take and excessive amount of time to engage, but that's dependent on both the wheel speed sensors and the computer as to just how aggressive it can be.
Side note: One thing that I notice about guys that have driven open-diff Jeeps for years and then hop in a newer JK with open diffs and BLD, is they tend to let off the throttle as soon as they lose traction and don't give enough time for the system to do it's job. Smooth steady throttle and the system does it's thing and you start moving again.


The visco-lok style differential seems like it would take A LOT more throttle input to get it to engage and keep it engaged, since it relies on fluid pressure and clutch engagement to transfer torque. To me it's more similar to a clutch pack type limited slip, but instead of mechanical pressure to engage the clutches, it has to wait on hydraulic pressure generated my the difference in wheel speed to build up in order to engage the clutch pack.


Edit: I just looked at the PDF posted above, and the visco-lok is indeed called a LSD by definition. So there you have it.

 

[Admin]

 

[GPR1500SC]

I can not speak for I4WD but I do have experience with my dads Visco-lok 4wd drive system on his four wheeler and I don't have one kind thing to say about it!!!!!!!

It gets stuck where if he had REAL four wheel drive it would not be a problem, here is the most common situation where we hunt there is a creek crossing and it likes washing a sand bar in the crossing cut so when you are climbing up the bank the back tire MUST spin before the front ones start helping so the back tires dig in and he gets stuck so its the Rancher to the rescue or my Yamaha with real 4 wd and this happens in snow or any situation where flotation is a must.

Visco-lok is considered a swear word around my house.

 

[ohanacreek]

I will say if the I-4wd is anything like the AWD in the Acura lineup I would have it in a heartbeat. My Acura TL had no problem on ice vs a Range Rover. I used the puny trunk stowed tow hook to pull him out, with a car, and he was on basically the same tires with all the lockers locked.

 

[DG Rider]

I can not speak for I4WD but I do have experience with my dads Visco-lok 4wd drive system on his four wheeler and I don't have one kind thing to say about it!!!!!!!

It gets stuck where if he had REAL four wheel drive it would not be a problem, here is the most common situation where we hunt there is a creek crossing and it likes washing a sand bar in the crossing cut so when you are climbing up the bank the back tire MUST spin before the front ones start helping so the back tires dig in and he gets stuck so its the Rancher to the rescue or my Yamaha with real 4 wd and this happens in snow or any situation where flotation is a must.

Visco-lok is considered a swear word around my house.

Are we talking about a Can-Am here? What you describe almost sounds more like the Polaris "On Demand" set-up.

Supposedly, the newer "QE" visco-lock works much better than the older versions...
But I wouldn't pay money for any of them over a good old fashioned locker.

Apparently, the intro isn't until 10PM EST (????). So its more like sept 20.8th!

 

[CumminsPusher]

Are we talking about a Can-Am here? What you describe almost sounds more like the Polaris "On Demand" set-up.

Supposedly, the newer "QE" visco-lock works much better than the older versions...
But I wouldn't pay money for any of them over a good old fashioned locker.

Apparently, the intro isn't until 10PM EST (????). So its more like sept 20.8th!

I am for locker all they way like you. In or out without changing at the wrong times or wearing the brakes out to get there. Less to fail.

 

[GPR1500SC]

Are we talking about a Can-Am here? What you describe almost sounds more like the Polaris "On Demand" set-up.

Supposedly, the newer "QE" visco-lock works much better than the older versions...
But I wouldn't pay money for any of them over a good old fashioned locker.

Apparently, the intro isn't until 10PM EST (????). So its more like sept 20.8th!

It is a old Bummer dier

 

[DG Rider]

It is a old Bummer dier

Wow...thats like 2 name changes ago! It's not one of those wierdo step-through ones, is it?

Halo and someone else does make replacement lockers for them...but if it's that old, doubt its worth the coin to him.

 

[GPR1500SC]

Mid 2000's Bombardier Traxter 500 it is a step through he traded his 300 Kawasaki for it when the traxter had less then a 100 miles on it from the Kawasaki dealer.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Hah, you don't have a clue how Visco Lok works do you? It is not a viscous coupling like a torque converter. From GKN (the manufacturer) the system works like this:
>A self-contained silicone-fluid filled reservoir and shear pump generates a hydraulic pressure proportional to a speed difference across the axle.
>The speed difference between the feed disc and the fluid filled channel of the pump disc and the resulting fluid shear forces moves the fluid from the reservoir to the apply piston.
>The hydraulic pressure creates an axial force via the apply piston, compressing the clutch pack.
(Source with pictures: http://www.resyl.net/atvfiles/ViscoLok-engl.pdf)

You lose momentum with the viscous system because it takes significant rotation of the slipping tire(s) before the fluid pressure builds up and the friction surfaces engage, then when wheel speed normalizes across the front axle the "pull" you get from that wheel stops and you have to start over again (or keep spinning the other 3 wheels faster than the one wheel with traction). So in order to get the one wheel to pull you have to have the other 3 spinning. Seems like a good way to lose momentum, yeah? It's jokingly called Crisco-lock for a reason.

While you're right that in Honda's i4WD system some energy is lost to the brakes, it's gotta be less than the energy to spinning the other 3 wheels like the Can Am system since the Honda is computer controlled and in theory should react faster to preserve more vehicle momentum. It's worth noting that the Visco Lok still bleeds thermal energy in the clutches and in the shear fluid.

Perhaps neither system is perfect, but there isn't any basis for your unequivocal statement that Visco Lok is better than i4WD.

Probably we just need to get a member with an LE to line up and do some obstacle courses with a Defender. Until that happens it's impossible to say which system is actually "better".

Dear God

You know how a shear pump works right? The principles are EXACTLY the same as a torque convertor.

And yes, I do know how they work. If I have to explain why a system that applies the BRAKES to develop torque causes a loss in momentum trying to explain that how the Visco-lok works would probably cause people heads to explode.

There is no way that you can use physics to explain how a system that applies the brakes is going to lose less momentum that a system that uses fluid to transfer energy between a moving part and a non moving part. If that principal held true, lots of systems would use brakes to transfer energy rather than viscous couplings, clutches, etc.

They don't. That for most people, would be called "A clue".

I think I see why so many of you are die hard Honda fans.

Good luck guys.

Sayonara.

 

[Hondasxs]

Peace out!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

 

[DG Rider]

News trickling out of the show...

Defender XMR with LOCKING FRONT DIFF ('bout time). Guess they ARE listening...

 

[DG Rider]

Official: Maverick trail...

Maverick Trail | Can-Am

800 -51HP
1000 -75HP
QRS CVT, which i think is still the "loose style" CVT. Belt protection system.
Electronic Hill assist control
Still Visco lok front.

 

[Chooglin]

Maverick Trail | Can-Am

 

[rkwerner]

Looks like a lot of fun. I would not mind picking one up in the future as a second rig for the width restricted trails. I bet it screams with a 1000. Stability may be an issue though.

 

[Plumber32]

Dear God

You know how a shear pump works right? The principles are EXACTLY the same as a torque convertor.

And yes, I do know how they work. If I have to explain why a system that applies the BRAKES to develop torque causes a loss in momentum trying to explain that how the Visco-lok works would probably cause people heads to explode.

There is no way that you can use physics to explain how a system that applies the brakes is going to lose less momentum that a system that uses fluid to transfer energy between a moving part and a non moving part. If that principal held true, lots of systems would use brakes to transfer energy rather than viscous couplings, clutches, etc.

They don't. That for most people, would be called "A clue".

I think I see why so many of you are die hard Honda fans.

Good luck guys.

Sayonara.

Thank god!

 

[nbomar]

Thank god!

It may not be for real... lots thought it was when he switched brands. I struggle to get through the novels of insults and I’m better than you lingo... I will say canam and Yamaha are my tough seconds to my Honda. Polaris would be down by the bottom...


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[Plumber32]

It may not be for real... lots thought it was when he switched brands. I struggle to get through the novels of insults and I’m better than you lingo... I will say canam and Yamaha are my tough seconds to my Honda. Polaris would be down by the bottom...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sold a 13 can am 800xt with Q.E. for the 700 pioneer. The visco sucks for pulling out stuck atv. Works great in snow and fast mud. It's down right dangerous climbing rock and logs. That's the absolute truth. When that extra Tire kicks in you better be holding on because you're going for a ride it almost flipped me off several times. I could not follow my buddies in their Arctic Cats over the extreme stuff that I like to ride. It does not compare to a true Locker Honda's I 4WD will not lose momentum it will grab slowly you will never even notice it. I might be an outsider but I would buy the Polaris over the Can-Am having owned all the Brand's now

 

[CumminsPusher]

That is a bad ass little machine. Looks like you sit low enough that it might not be ultra tippy. Like others have said it's hard to get suspension to work hard at that width but seems to move ok. Still prefer Jap rigs

 

[moparornocar]

Dear God

You know how a shear pump works right? The principles are EXACTLY the same as a torque convertor.

And yes, I do know how they work. If I have to explain why a system that applies the BRAKES to develop torque causes a loss in momentum trying to explain that how the Visco-lok works would probably cause people heads to explode.

There is no way that you can use physics to explain how a system that applies the brakes is going to lose less momentum that a system that uses fluid to transfer energy between a moving part and a non moving part. If that principal held true, lots of systems would use brakes to transfer energy rather than viscous couplings, clutches, etc.

They don't. That for most people, would be called "A clue".

I think I see why so many of you are die hard Honda fans.

Good luck guys.

Sayonara.

Bye Felicia

 

[DG Rider]

This is the "Locker" Can-Am now has...

I have to rant a bit here...

This is typical CanAm, and one reason why I have never been a big fan. Some companies have the K.I.S.S philosophy, while Can-am's is K.I.S.S.Q.R.E.T.T.E.< +10 more letters that stand for something WAY overly complicated>.

I have ideal....why not just make the f***ing "locker" lock and leave it at that (IE-Stupid Lok)? If your test riders are so terrified of that evil monster that is a locked front diff (as seems to be the case in the video), then just make EPS standard? Instead...6 sensors...another "module" for the locker, and 3 modes?

How about letting me push a button and having it lock, and forgoing the scrotum temp sensor or whatever? How about letting me decide based on terrain, and just carrying out my commands?

I'm sure it will work fine (and better than the Visolok thing), and I have no doubt that the aftermarket will quickly reprogram the "module" to simply lock the diff, but there was no need to reinvent the wheel here.

A simple question that CanAm provided the typical, stupidly overcomplicated answer to.