P1000 Over Heating Issue

Redmoon

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Hi Everyone. Getting close to pulling the trigger on a 2019 1000-5 LE the question is: Is Honda still having the over heating issues on the 2019? Have they fixed the issue the 19's ? We tend to wander the road less traveled and I don't want to get out there and not get back. Give me your thoughts please.
 
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KERN

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Hi Everyone. Getting close to pulling the trigger on a 2019 1000-5 LE the question is: Is Honda still having the over heating issues on the 2019? Have they fixed the issue the 19's ? We tend to wander the road less traveled and I don't want to get out there and not get back. Give me your thoughts please.

Short answer NO. Honda has not issued a formal recall or acceptable fix to my knowledge. Sure, there have been proposed work-a-rounds (i.e. reprogramming the ECM, burping the air from the radiator, turning off the key and resetting the ECM, making sure the radiator is clean and free of mud, snow, dirt, installing a bilge pump as a fan) but the results have been inconsistent. Some guys claim it fixes their problems; other guys say it did not help.

However, it depends on how you use the machine. In my experience under "normal" use i.e. running Mojave Desert, Hungry Valley OHV Park, Pismo Dunes at 25-50 Mph (speeds at which the air flows helps cool the radiator) most people do not have problems. The issue becomes when you are requiring heavy torque, high RPMs at low speeds i.e. :"rock crawling, snow tracks, climbing from 4000' to 8500' FT in 12 miles etc", the small volume radiator, combined with no fan shroud and fan controlled ECM will produce overheating issues. To further compound the problem, you are sitting on top of the motor, which is essentially in a closed box (see other threads on how to install a Wallmart bilge pump to vent out the air). My unit gets so hot you can blow dry your hair with heat coming out of the shifter panel.

This is not the first time Honda has designed, produced and sold a product without considering how the "end user" will be using the machine. For example, in the California Central Valley, the Farmers have purchased tens-of-thousands of Honda ATV Recon TRX250R used in the fields and orchards. The machines are air cooled and are the toughest, almost bullet proof, beat-the-hell-out-of-it product that Honda has ever built. However, run it in muddy field, jump off, leave it running to fix a water line, and the machine will overheat due to no air flow. Honda did not consider the workers would leave the machines idling for long periods of time.

I believe Honda did not consider the Pioneer 1000-5 would operate in "heavy torque, high RPMs at low speeds, high attitude, loaded" for extended periods of time. One would think with Honda coming in late to the side-by-side market, and with the consumer market moving in that direction, Honda would have it together. HONDA PLEASE GET IT TOGETHER!

If you do pull the trigger, make sure you ride with one eye on the temperature gauge, bring 2 gallons of blue antifreeze, and a lot of patience's to wait for the unit to cool down when it overheats. (and it will overheat-come ride with me and I will prove it).

Great machine- just a poor thermodynamic cooling design.
 
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Redmoon

Redmoon

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Short answer NO. Honda has not issued a formal recall or acceptable fix to my knowledge. Sure, there have been proposed work-a-rounds (i.e. reprogramming the ECM, burping the air from the radiator, turning off the key and resetting the ECM, making sure the radiator is clean and free of mud, snow, dirt, installing a bilge pump as a fan) but the results have been inconsistent. Some guys claim it fixes their problems; other guys say it did not help.

However, it depends on how you use the machine. In my experience under "normal" use i.e. running Mojave Desert, Hungry Valley OHV Park, Pismo Dunes at 25-50 Mph (speeds at which the air flows helps cool the radiator) most people do not have problems. The issue becomes when you are requiring heavy torque, high RPMs at low speeds i.e. :"rock crawling, snow tracks, climbing from 4000' to 8500' FT in 12 miles etc", the small volume radiator, combined with no fan shroud and fan controlled ECM will produce overheating issues. To further compound the problem, you are sitting on top of the motor, which is essentially in a closed box (see other threads on how to install a Wallmart bilge pump to vent out the air). My unit gets so hot you can blow dry your hair with heat coming out of the shifter panel.

This is not the first time Honda has designed, produced and sold a product without considering how the "end user" will be using the machine. For example, in the California Central Valley, the Farmers have purchased tens-of-thousands of Honda ATV Recon TRX250R used in the fields and orchards. The machines are air cooled and are the toughest, almost bullet proof, beat-the-hell-out-of-it product that Honda has ever built. However, run it in muddy field, jump off, leave it running to fix a water line, and the machine will overheat due to no air flow. Honda did not consider the workers would leave the machines idling for long periods of time.

I believe Honda did not consider the Pioneer 1000-5 would operate in "heavy torque, high RPMs at low speeds, high attitude, loaded" for extended periods of time. One would think with Honda coming in late to the side-by-side market, and with the consumer market moving in that direction, Honda would have it together. HONDA PLEASE GET IT TOGETHER!

If you do pull the trigger, make sure you ride with one eye on the temperature gauge, bring 2 gallons of blue antifreeze, and a lot of patience's to wait for the unit to cool down when it overheats. (and it will overheat-come ride with me and I will prove it).

Great machine- just a poor thermodynamic cooling design.


Thanks for your thoughts Kern.
Would this lack of a fix prevent anyone from going with Honda?
Use would be Northern Az Mountains. Trails and Fire roads. I will never swim or mud my machine. No swimming suit.
Come on Honda! If I am going to spend 22 thousand on one of your machines I don't want to have to go to Walmart to buy a bunch of Bandaids ie. Fans, Antifreeze. etc. to make it ridable. Thats BS. I hope Honda isn't going the route of thinking that they have a good product and a minor thing like overheating and not running is something that we can just live with! Not.
What I want and expect for 22k Honda is an F ing Civic like reliability. Is that too much to ask for?
 
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sugarray

sugarray

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Very few folks are having any problems. Others will chime in, but man, just ride your SXS. If you are worried, stay home. A quick search will cover this topic ad nauseam.
 
K

KERN

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Thanks for your thoughts Kern.
Would this lack of a fix prevent anyone from going with Honda?
Use would be Northern Az Mountains. Trails and Fire roads. I will never swim or mud my machine. No swimming suit.
Come on Honda! If I am going to spend 22 thousand on one of your machines I don't want to have to go to Walmart to buy a bunch of Bandaids ie. Fans, Antifreeze. etc. to make it ridable. Thats BS. I hope Honda isn't going the route of thinking that they have a good product and a minor thing like overheating and not running is something that we can just live with! Not.
What I want and expect for 22k Honda is an F ing Civic like reliability. Is that too much to ask for?

No. I am hardcore Honda guy and I bleed Honda Red. However, you need to know what you are getting into and the FACT that Honda (and by default your Dealer) will not help you or stand by their product. It turns out Warranty work is not back and white. If something is broken under warranty AND Honda authorizes the Dealer to complete the repairs everything is fine. HOWEVER, in the case of over-heating (which the dealer cannot replicate or identify a component to replace) Honda will not pay the dealer for the diagnosis time. You (the customer) are on the hook for diagnosis (shop time). I did raise hell with my Salesman and he covered the shop time from his Sales Budget after I refused to pay. (BTW, I spent over 28K on this machine, purchasing the adds-on through Honda). Then, the Salesman said there was nothing more Honda or they could do and go find a Radiator shop. I get it- nobody wants to work for free and the shop is a profit center.

Heat issues on side-by-sides have always been an issue. I own a Polaris 570LE and it has an overheating exhaust issue, which gets so hot it will melt the plastic and I cannot carry anything in the bed. I have installed all the tricks including "heat shields", exhaust tape, exhaust louvers and it helps, but the problem is still there.

Search the Internet and research the forums. Numerous people all over the United States are having overheating issues. Clearly, there is something going on.
 
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KERN

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Very few folks are having any problems. Others will chime in, but man, just ride your SXS. If you are worried, stay home. A quick search will cover this topic ad nauseam.

Not to start a flaming war, but you state "Very few folks are having any problems" and then "A quick search will cover this topic ad nauseam." Clearly, there is a problem or it would not be discussed in "ad nauseam". His concerns are legitimate and no one wants to spend $25,000+ on a machine, get stuck, and find out Honda claims "nothing is wrong". I then told the Honda Rep, "Ok. get in and we will go for a ride. Make sure to bring your hiking boots as the last time we had to hike out 12 miles in the snow because the unit overheated without warning and puked out all the coolant." Funny...he did not want to go.
 
Redmoon

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Very few folks are having any problems. Others will chime in, but man, just ride your SXS. If you are worried, stay home. A quick search will cover this topic ad nauseam.

Been riding or racing starting back in 73. No stranger to all of this and I am not your little sister so to tell me to stay home if I am worried isn't really working for me. Also a large percentage of the posts are people asking questions on why this doesn't work or how to fix something. There is no way for me to gauge if there are 10,000 or 100 people who post on this site on a regular basis that are having problems with their machines. It is a fair question that doesn't deserve some tired old snarky response. Ain't no way to get new members to participate.

Thanks to all who gave a fair response.
 
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ohanacreek

ohanacreek

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Not to start a flaming war, but you state "Very few folks are having any problems" and then "A quick search will cover this topic ad nauseam." Clearly, there is a problem or it would not be discussed in "ad nauseam"....

People are very quiet when something is right but when something is wrong they are very loud.

This has been discussed ad nauseam on multiple threads, and a lot of members have measured temperature in many different spots with fairly even consistency, and it always pops back up in the spring as soon as the temp gets over @70degrees. After Takeover I will see if there is a way to make them all in one group or cluster or something that is easy to find. You will notice it is a small minority that is the most vocal in the individual threads. There has been a lot of help and the same suggestions have fixed a large majority of the issues. Mainly burping the cooling system, sometimes it took 3-4 times to get the air out. 2nd would be cleaning the radiator since some folks like to play in the mud and creeks and a lot of junk gets in between the fins and prevents airflow (this is use outside of the intended design and most mudders relocate their radiators anyway), 3rd I would say ECU in the 17-18 models I believe there IS a service bulletin for that, then 4th swap the cap which is what in the old days you used to do first after making sure there was no leak or blocked fins.

This is not the first time Honda has designed, produced and sold a product without considering how the "end user" will be using the machine. For example, in the California Central Valley, the Farmers have purchased tens-of-thousands of Honda ATV Recon TRX250R used in the fields and orchards. The machines are air cooled and are the toughest, almost bullet proof, beat-the-hell-out-of-it product that Honda has ever built. However, run it in muddy field, jump off, leave it running to fix a water line, and the machine will overheat due to no air flow. Honda did not consider the workers would leave the machines idling for long periods of time.

Now thats not exactly Hondas fault, thats dumb to leave it running if you're going to be spending a long time repairing something. I would think in California if you weren't sitting on it it wouldn't run like a lawn mower. You can't engineer things for stupid people, they will find a way to out stupid you no matter how hard you try.

Short answer NO. Honda has not issued a formal recall or acceptable fix to my knowledge. Sure, there have been proposed work-a-rounds (i.e. reprogramming the ECM, burping the air from the radiator, turning off the key and resetting the ECM, making sure the radiator is clean and free of mud, snow, dirt, installing a bilge pump as a fan) but the results have been inconsistent. Some guys claim it fixes their problems; other guys say it did not help.

The issue becomes when you are requiring heavy torque, high RPMs at low speeds i.e. :"rock crawling, snow tracks, climbing from 4000' to 8500' FT in 12 miles etc", the small volume radiator, combined with no fan shroud and fan controlled ECM will produce overheating issues. To further compound the problem, you are sitting on top of the motor, which is essentially in a closed box (see other threads on how to install a Wallmart bilge pump to vent out the air). My unit gets so hot you can blow dry your hair with heat coming out of the shifter panel.....

ECM Service Bulletin for 17-18 and Cab Heat Update is available for all models if not installed from the factory

I don't know what the issue is for every instance and I don't deny people are having an issue BUT...there is a group of us that do in fact load them up with 300-500lbs of gear and rock crawl and climb 2000-3000 feet in 5-8 miles then rock crawl and go down, then go back up another 2000-3000 feet again. We are doing it for 2-3 days, and only one of us has had to stop and cool the machine off (repeatedly) and refill the radiator, which ended up being a bad radiator cap. No denying there is an issue but with a group of 10-15 and 40-50k miles between them with only one having a bad radiator cap. I don't think its EVERY machine. Mine has never gotten above 2 bars on they dash, I watch it because the clutch is Oil to water cooled which leads to the next part and crawling over rocky steep terrain can heat the clutch up.

There is a group who ride the ever loving crap out of the clutch and the clutch is oil to water cooled...

These are also some of the same people that had clutch issues, since they were riding it and getting it hot.
The cooling update increases oil flow and therefor transfers heat better to the coolant. If you ride it long enough and hard enough the clutch WILL heat the coolant to the point that the idiot light on the dash will come on but you still won't overheat the clutch. You'll burn the motor up first and sooner rather than later you will wear the clutch friction material out. There are a few that have overheated the motor on a regular basis because of how they ride and they have also had a clutch fail previous to the update.

Some folks are not used to heat, it doesn't bother others so cab comfort is somewhat of a relative discussion.
Yes it gets hot and like you said you're sitting on 999cc of internal combustion, I take my windshield off in the summer and have the front seat somewhat insulated and a fan, @Montana has a cover for the shifter which is great in the warmer months and I am going to remove it in the winter. I really only use the fan in the winter to keep steam off the windshield. I also have a full skid plate which traps even more heat. For under @$100 you can remedy 95% of the heat in the cab area, and there is an update that all new machines should have the helps limit the heat in the cab and that all old machines can get. There are also a lot of people who complain about the heat in the cab that have a full windshield installed and will NOT take it off to allow airflow. My wife does much better in the winter than she does in the summer. Unless she is near water in the summer she hates being outside in the middle of the day in 100+ heat index, ironically we were in AZ and it was 110 and she was happy because heat index was 93. She does not like to ride in the summer even without the windshield. I wont ride in the summer with a windshield it feels like you're getting baked. Otherwise the heat doesn't really bother me.

PS you will find me very vocal when it comes to the downfalls and shortcomings of General Motors. No one is perfect but how a manufacturer handles issues is the deciding factor for me.
 
Hondasxs

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Well.
I'll will have the answer next week at royla blue TN.

New 2019 1000-5 deluex with 6 miles that has not seen a trail. Our first goal is to head to the most difficulate part of the park to do some crawling.

I'm excited and scared as my unit is untested.

I am bringing with me a fan override relay kit just in case and can install during a soda break.

Wish me luck.
276a07485f9ea506aadfe36eab30b18e

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
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Redmoon

Redmoon

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People are very quiet when something is right but when something is wrong they are very loud.

This has been discussed ad nauseam on multiple threads, and a lot of members have measured temperature in many different spots with fairly even consistency, and it always pops back up in the spring as soon as the temp gets over @70degrees. After Takeover I will see if there is a way to make them all in one group or cluster or something that is easy to find. You will notice it is a small minority that is the most vocal in the individual threads. There has been a lot of help and the same suggestions have fixed a large majority of the issues. Mainly burping the cooling system, sometimes it took 3-4 times to get the air out. 2nd would be cleaning the radiator since some folks like to play in the mud and creeks and a lot of junk gets in between the fins and prevents airflow (this is use outside of the intended design and most mudders relocate their radiators anyway), 3rd I would say ECU in the 17-18 models I believe there IS a service bulletin for that, then 4th swap the cap which is what in the old days you used to do first after making sure there was no leak or blocked fins.



Now thats not exactly Hondas fault, thats dumb to leave it running if you're going to be spending a long time repairing something. I would think in California if you weren't sitting on it it wouldn't run like a lawn mower. You can't engineer things for stupid people, they will find a way to out stupid you no matter how hard you try.



ECM Service Bulletin for 17-18 and Cab Heat Update is available for all models if not installed from the factory

I don't know what the issue is for every instance and I don't deny people are having an issue BUT...there is a group of us that do in fact load them up with 300-500lbs of gear and rock crawl and climb 2000-3000 feet in 5-8 miles then rock crawl and go down, then go back up another 2000-3000 feet again. We are doing it for 2-3 days, and only one of us has had to stop and cool the machine off (repeatedly) and refill the radiator, which ended up being a bad radiator cap. No denying there is an issue but with a group of 10-15 and 40-50k miles between them with only one having a bad radiator cap. I don't think its EVERY machine. Mine has never gotten above 2 bars on they dash, I watch it because the clutch is Oil to water cooled which leads to the next part and crawling over rocky steep terrain can heat the clutch up.

There is a group who ride the ever loving crap out of the clutch and the clutch is oil to water cooled...

These are also some of the same people that had clutch issues, since they were riding it and getting it hot.
The cooling update increases oil flow and therefor transfers heat better to the coolant. If you ride it long enough and hard enough the clutch WILL heat the coolant to the point that the idiot light on the dash will come on but you still won't overheat the clutch. You'll burn the motor up first and sooner rather than later you will wear the clutch friction material out. There are a few that have overheated the motor on a regular basis because of how they ride and they have also had a clutch fail previous to the update.

Some folks are not used to heat, it doesn't bother others so cab comfort is somewhat of a relative discussion.
Yes it gets hot and like you said you're sitting on 999cc of internal combustion, I take my windshield off in the summer and have the front seat somewhat insulated and a fan, @Montana has a cover for the shifter which is great in the warmer months and I am going to remove it in the winter. I really only use the fan in the winter to keep steam off the windshield. I also have a full skid plate which traps even more heat. For under @$100 you can remedy 95% of the heat in the cab area, and there is an update that all new machines should have the helps limit the heat in the cab and that all old machines can get. There are also a lot of people who complain about the heat in the cab that have a full windshield installed and will NOT take it off to allow airflow. My wife does much better in the winter than she does in the summer. Unless she is near water in the summer she hates being outside in the middle of the day in 100+ heat index, ironically we were in AZ and it was 110 and she was happy because heat index was 93. She does not like to ride in the summer even without the windshield. I wont ride in the summer with a windshield it feels like you're getting baked. Otherwise the heat doesn't really bother me.

PS you will find me very vocal when it comes to the downfalls and shortcomings of General Motors. No one is perfect but how a manufacturer handles issues is the deciding factor for me.


Can you take a guess of the units sold what the percentage of them are that have the over heating problems? just how common is it? I'm not looking for a guaranty, I realize thats not possible. Just trying to get a feel for how wide spread the problem is before I drop the cash.
 
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Redmoon

Redmoon

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Feb 21, 2019
265
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Prescott Az.
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  1. 1000-5
Well.
I'll will have the answer next week at royla blue TN.

New 2019 1000-5 deluex with 6 miles that has not seen a trail. Our first goal is to head to the most difficulate part of the park to do some crawling.

I'm excited and scared as my unit is untested.

I am bringing with me a fan override relay kit just in case and can install during a soda break.

Wish me luck.
View attachment 125153

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Thanks SXS. Let me know how it went. Have fun, and be safe.
 
ohanacreek

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Can you take a guess of the units sold what the percentage of them are that have the over heating problems? just how common is it? I'm not looking for a guaranty, I realize thats not possible. Just trying to get a feel for how wide spread the problem is before I drop the cash.
I'm not sure seems like maybe 50-60 that have spoken up here or on the Facebook groups, I would say less than a dozen had any issue unless they got no trapped air out of the cooling system. A few of those were clutch killers, others had mud caked in the radiator even though the surface was clean, at least one had a bad cap, 3-4 that I can remember were left unexplained or they went quiet without telling a resolution. There were a lot that complained about the fan on the 17-18 models, so that was an issue but Honda is reprogramming the ECU. Tracks would seem to increase the probability of overheating thats a heavy constant high RPM load on them, I didn't realize @KERN had tracks when he was referring to the load he was putting on it, that isn't a use in the manual so I'm lumping that in with mudders and relocating radiators for a specific use.
 
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I’ve had three different p1000’s and the ONLY time we had overheat issue was at RRB riding mud hard in a tight group. Caked up radiator but that’s to be expected. I have had many other issues however Honda has done a great job with product campaigns and the Pioneer is now a very solid vehicle. Don’t read too much into what’s been said. Any year 1000 is solid if the free updates are done.
Many other machines continue to have issues but that really is a thing of the past with the 1000. Our newest Pioneer is still a ‘16 and I love it more everyday we beat the holy hell out of it.
 
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Redmoon

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I’ve had three different p1000’s and the ONLY time we had overheat issue was at RRB riding mud hard in a tight group. Caked up radiator but that’s to be expected. I have had many other issues however Honda has done a great job with product campaigns and the Pioneer is now a very solid vehicle. Don’t read too much into what’s been said. Any year 1000 is solid if the free updates are done.
Many other machines continue to have issues but that really is a thing of the past with the 1000. Our newest Pioneer is still a ‘16 and I love it more everyday we beat the holy hell out of it.


Ohana and Pusher Thanks those are the types of responses that I was Looking for. From LaGrande Pusher miss that part of the mountains. Oregon Wash Idaho
 
K

KERN

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There is a group who ride the ever loving crap out of the clutch and the clutch is oil to water cooled..

Question: how can does the clutch overheat? Perhaps, that is where I am getting some of the heat? I run it in low range, manual mode, in 4AWD. How does the clutch slip?

Thanks
 
ohanacreek

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Question: how can does the clutch overheat? Perhaps, that is where I am getting some of the heat? I run it in low range, manual mode, in 4AWD. How does the clutch slip?

Thanks

Below @2000rpm it does not fully engage. Creates a lot of heat. If you’re high rpm I don’t see that being the issue. I was saying that is the cause of some of the overheating issues.
 
K

KERN

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Below @2000rpm it does not fully engage. Creates a lot of heat. If you’re high rpm I don’t see that being the issue. I was saying that is the cause of some of the overheating issues.

The tracks are off for the summer and you can really notice the difference with the tires. You are right, the tracks do put quite a load on the motor. I am working with a radiator shop to enhance the cooling system and hopefully that will resolve the overheating issue.

Thanks for your help.
 

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