P1000 Removing rounded out hex drive bolt - Help!

[bumperm]

I've mentioned before, it looks like an ape with a 1000 psi impact driver put in the fasteners on my '21 P1K5 SE. It's as if he removed the impact driver while it was still turning, you can see the damaged 5mm hex drive hole and know it's screwed up beforehand. Usually tapping in a hex drive bit with a hammer, a new quality bit such as the Wiha I'm using, will get most loose. Not all though.

Getting ready to install a Shifter Hole Cover , so figured I'd check the bolts, both looked rounded. The "tap the bit in" drill worked on one, the other stripped. It's in a recess in the plastic so I can't get a Dremel in there to cut a slot.

I could disconnect batteries (to help prevent damage to electronics), connect my MIG welder ground to the frame (as near the offending bolt as possibible). Hold a suitable nut in position and weld into the center of the nut to weld the nut and bolt together, then use the nut to remove the stripped head bolt. I'll cover everything with a damp cloth to prevent collateral damage. The panel plastic melting adjacent to the nut is of little consequence as I can put a washer in the recess later. I'll have a water spray bottle to cool things off after welding.

I have a TIG welder available, and would be inclined to use that if it were home, as it welds with more finesse, I'd have to fetch it from my hangar if that would work better?

Any thoughts, experience doing this, comments, better ideas (please!) are most welcome . . .

 

[Admin]

 

[Smitty335]

I've mentioned before, it looks like an ape with a 1000 psi impact driver put in the fasteners on my '21 P1K5 SE. It's as if he removed the impact driver while it was still turning, you can see the damaged 5mm hex drive hole and know it's screwed up beforehand. Usually tapping in a hex drive bit with a hammer, a new quality bit such as the Wiha I'm using, will get most loose. Not all though.

Getting ready to install a Shifter Hole Cover , so figured I'd check the bolts, both looked rounded. The "tap the bit in" drill worked on one, the other stripped. It's in a recess in the plastic so I can't get a Dremel in there to cut a slot.

I could disconnect batteries (to help prevent damage to electronics), connect my MIG welder ground to the frame (as near the offending bolt as possibible). Hold a suitable nut in position and weld into the center of the nut to weld the nut and bolt together, then use the nut to remove the stripped head bolt. I'll cover everything with a damp cloth to prevent collateral damage. The panel plastic melting adjacent to the nut is of little consequence as I can put a washer in the recess later. I'll have a water spray bottle to cool things off after welding.

I have a TIG welder available, and would be inclined to use that if it were home, as it welds with more finesse, I'd have to fetch it from my hangar if that would work better?

Any thoughts, experience doing this, comments, better ideas (please!) are most welcome . . .

PICS???????????

 

[CID]

Is it a shouldered bolt? If not, can you drill the head off and then back out the remaining stud? Once the head is gone, the stud will be finger tight. If the bolt is shouldered, it will be bottomed in the hole and drilling won't git 'er dun.

Although I love the finesse of TIG, it's slow and will get hotter than a quick BZZZZTTT with the MIG.

 

[bumperm]

Is it a shouldered bolt? If not, can you drill the head off and then back out the remaining stud? Once the head is gone, the stud will be finger tight. If the bolt is shouldered, it will be bottomed in the hole and drilling won't git 'er dun.

Although I love the finesse of TIG, it's slow and will get hotter than a quick BZZZZTTT with the MIG.

It's a shouldered bolt, the threads are 6mm. It's a round, curved head, the same as is used to fasten all the color panels. (And all of those were way the h*** too tight as well.

This is the one on the left, I was able to get this out by first tapping is the hex drive bit with a hammer, then going at it with a small impact driver. I ran it back in snug.

This next one is a goner and will require heroic measures:

 

[CID]

Knowing how tight those are on my Talon, I got nuttin. 🤔

 

[Jerryg]

Carefully dremmel a slot, maybe use something to protect the plastic if it slips.

Then get a large flat tip screwdriver with a vise grip attached to the stem and slowly and carefully try to break it loose.

 

[toddvdh]

The right size screw extractor might work.

Otherwise try tapping a torx bit into the head. You could even file the tips sharp before if you want to sacrifice a torx bit.

 

[bumperm]

Carefully dremmel a slot, maybe use something to protect the plastic if it slips.

Then get a large flat tip screwdriver with a vise grip attached to the stem and slowly and carefully try to break it loose.

I was just typing this as you posted!! "Thinking some more, I might be able to use a . . . " dremel with a diamond burr, lubed with water, to cut a slot on each side of the hole."

Can't get a small abrasive cutoff wheel in there to slot it, the recess hole is too deep. But as you are suggesting, try to slot it enough to get a screwdriver to seat in each side.

Earlier on, when getting previous stripped out hex drives out, I tried using one of my thicker gunsmith screwdriver bits, as those are straight wall instead of the slight taper of many flat heads. Used an adjustable wrench on the driver shank, It twisted the flat portion of the bit!

 

[bumperm]

The right size screw extractor might work.

Otherwise try tapping a torx bit into the head. You could even file the tips sharp before if you want to sacrifice a torx bit.

I'll have to check, but there's not a lot of depth, though I could drill down . . . whoa, now there's an idea! It's a shouldered bolt, so I can drill down to the bottom of the shoulder and the head and shoulder will come out. That leaves me with just the threads in the hole. There's just one catch, in putting these things in so tight, they've slightly stretched the threads so that even those I've removed previously (half a dozen or so) required some torque to remove even after they've been "broken" loose. Hmm.

 

[Jerryg]

I was just typing this as you posted!! "Thinking some more, I might be able to use a . . . " dremel with a diamond burr, lubed with water, to cut a slot on each side of the hole."

Can't get a small abrasive cutoff wheel in there to slot it, the recess hole is too deep. But as you are suggesting, try to slot it enough to get a screwdriver to seat in each side.

Earlier on, when getting previous stripped out hex drives out, I tried using one of my thicker gunsmith screwdriver bits, as those are straight wall instead of the slight taper of many flat heads. Used an adjustable wrench on the driver shank, It twisted the flat portion of the bit!

If you can center a small cutting wheel, I think you would have enough meat since it is a shoulder bolt.

 

[bumperm]

If you can center a small cutting wheel, I think you would have enough meat since it is a shoulder bolt.

I'm almost sure the recess is too deep, and the diameter of the hole too small, to allow any of the Dremel cut off wheels to reach the bolt head. An electric drive rotary tool is too big in diameter also, though I have an pneumatic one that's thin . . . I'll go look.

Edit: I do have a air die grinder here, it's only about 3/4" in diameter, but still the Dremel cut off wheel won't reach the bolt head. Hole is too deep, deeper than the radius, so a slotting wheel is out of the question.

 

[Dirtstiffs-1000]

 

[bumperm]

This is the little guy we're dealing with. Round part of the head is about 1/8" thick. The shoulder is less than that (.089"), so not even a quarter inch adding both. The shoulder is .354" (9mm - but I think in inches :c), could be doable with an EZ-out, I have some here, though there's not a lot of depth for a "larger" one to work in and I'd be fearful of breaking off one that is sized for the threaded portion of the screw. I'll probably give it a try, if it breaks off, it'll give me a place to hang the nut while I weld it. Sigh.

 

[CPope]

I used the smallest ez out I had and drilled down center of bolt, it came out with a little effort

 

[Vikes79]

Get your self a set of these.

they work great in tight quarters as well.


Lisle 62900 Extractor Set
Amazon.com

 

[bumperm]

Get your self a set of these.

they work great in tight quarters as well.


Lisle 62900 Extractor Set
Amazon.com

Unfortunately, those need to be hammered in, and I'm not sure there's enough rigidity in the tubing that supports the dash panel to wail away with a hammer there? (I just gently tapped in the hex bit.) I have a set of left hand twist drills . . . sometimes you get lucky and the fastener will back out while it's being drilled - I figure it's in there way too tight for that, though. I have some conventional easy-outs. So LH drill and trying that is plan A.

In checking out the lisle extractor set (which is described as for min size 1/4" fastener - and my problem screw is 6mm), I found and ordered these:

Metric hex extractor set

Now my Male Purchase Formula is: Want X Need = Buy (with no value 0 or negative).
Lot of want and not much need = Buy!
Lot of need and not much want = Still Buy!

Also, my wife married me some 52 years ago with the understanding that tools are off budget as far as my toy account is concerned. A tool is defined as anything that has the potential to make money . . . doesn't matter if it ever does, just so long as the potential is there. Works for me!

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Those honda allen hex drive “bolts” all need replaced with torx or external hex.

i ran into several that stripped out from brand new Trying to remove them.

complete garbage.

if you look close at an undamaged one you see the “pocket” only fits the Allen wrench tightly at the surface and the deep portion of the hex shape is “wallowed out” by the hex broach method.

I’ve been eliminating any I remove.

 

[Mudwing]

Carefully dremmel a slot, maybe use something to protect the plastic if it slips.

Then get a large flat tip screwdriver with a vise grip attached to the stem and slowly and carefully try to break it loose.

This is what I would do next. Except I might try my impact screwdriver. Not impact gun. Soak with penetrating oil. Maybe weld a nut on after of this doesn’t work. Could always drill out and tap bigger. I know that is my last choice most of the time. 🤣🔪

 

[Mudwing]

I'm almost sure the recess is too deep, and the diameter of the hole too small, to allow any of the Dremel cut off wheels to reach the bolt head. An electric drive rotary tool is too big in diameter also, though I have an pneumatic one that's thin . . . I'll go look.

Edit: I do have a air die grinder here, it's only about 3/4" in diameter, but still the Dremel cut off wheel won't reach the bolt head. Hole is too deep, deeper than the radius, so a slotting wheel is out of the question.

Scratch that then. 🤣🔪

 

[CID]

The pic you posted in #13 looks like you could get a decent sized pilot hole drilled for one of the larger EZ Outs you ordered. And you'll need a big one to break that b**** loose.

As tight as mine have been, once broken loose, they spin right out without any 'stretch' friction.