Shock Therapy Talon Review

[CID]

So what is the difference between the x and the R? I know the R has much longer trailing arms and 2.5 shocks. Is that the only differences?
I am trying to decide between the 2 mostly for 2 track trails in the mountains and I just want to have the best ride I can.
Good information on this thread as well.

The R has a longer wheelbase (92.7") and wider track (68.4" wide vs the X at 64" - overall width numbers, not track width). It also has more travel both front (17.7") and rear (20.1") (don't know the X's numbers). The rear suspension is different on the R, not sure about the front. As a retiring dirt bike rider, suspension is important so I went with the R. Width isn't very important in the desert (intended usage) or on the mountain jeep roads (unlike the forest trail riders back east). Since buying mine, I've seen enough complaints about the choppy ride in the X that I'm glad I went with the R. I still intend to replace the springs and get the shocks revalved, the R will never be accused of being undersprung.

 

[Grnminivan]

Thank you so much for the fast reply and valuable input.
Our back grounds are very similar. I guess that is why I am probably way overthinking this suspension thing.
When I used to race MX I always found that I could shave seconds with good suspension and only .10ths with power upgrades.
Spring and valuing upgrades will for sure be in the future of what ever unit.
All of the trails will be Jeep trails since even the X is to wide for ATV trails so that makes me lean a little more to R I guess.
Sorry that I derailed the thread.

 

[PaulF]

So what is the difference between the x and the R? I know the R has much longer trailing arms and 2.5 shocks. Is that the only differences?
I am trying to decide between the 2 mostly for 2 track trails in the mountains and I just want to have the best ride I can.
Good information on this thread as well.

No, there is more to it than that. They have completely different rear suspensions.

The X has the standard fixed (meaning they are fixed to the hub) trailing arm like most sport UTV's. The 1 trailing arm keeps the hub from spinning and transfers the forward driving force through one arm from the hub to the frame on each side. This is an example of a trailing arm, it mounts to the frame on the left and the hub on the right...

The R does not have "much" longer trailing arms, the center of the wheel is only a couple inches further back from the mount point on the frame but it actually doesn't technically have trailing arms at all, it uses a 4+ link suspension, much like a race car but with an extra link (this the 4 PLUS label). It has 2 links that keep the hub from spinning and transfers the forward driving force through TWO links from the hub to the frame on each side. There are an additional 3 links (aka radius rods) that keep the camber and toe in check. I can't find a good picture because the Talon is the only UTV that I can find that uses any type of 4 link rear suspension. Here is the best pic of a Talon R rear suspension I could find. The lower link is NOT a trailing arm although it is beefy and looks like one and most refer to it as a trailing arm. It is a lower link but they made it huge to withstand the punishment it might get going over obstacles...

The X is narrower and has a tighter turning radius and is more suited for trail and mountain riding like you are expecting to do.

The R has more suspension travel and is more suited for fast riding and the dunes. They are both very capable of crossing over so stick with the type you will be using it for the most and you will still be able to do anything you want.

And they both ride like a tank in stock form. The Live Valve is a little better. Both will buck over larger whoops. Both rides can be improved in several different ways from a simple crossover ring adjustment, sway bar removal, tender spring replacements and all the way to full out all new springs and shock re-valving.

 

[JTW]

Thank you so much for the fast reply and valuable input.
Our back grounds are very similar. I guess that is why I am probably way overthinking this suspension thing.
When I used to race MX I always found that I could shave seconds with good suspension and only .10ths with power upgrades.
Spring and valuing upgrades will for sure be in the future of what ever unit.
All of the trails will be Jeep trails since even the X is to wide for ATV trails so that makes me lean a little more to R I guess.
Sorry that I derailed the thread.

Have you looked into the KRX?

 

[Grnminivan]

Thank you PaulF. That clears up so many of my question.
Dealers here either have the R or the X in stock and I didn’t know what the difference was.

JTW yes I have looked at the KRX. It is a nice unit and rides nice, but the dead pedal and foot wells are very uncomfortable for me.

 

[JTW]

Thank you PaulF. That clears up so many of my question.
Dealers here either have the R or the X in stock and I didn’t know what the difference was.

JTW yes I have looked at the KRX. It is a nice unit and rides nice, but the dead pedal and foot wells are very uncomfortable for me.

$250 tune takes care of the pedal.. a lot cheaper than shock work. But I’m a bang for your bunk kinda guy

 

[CID]

$250 tune takes care of the pedal.. a lot cheaper than shock work. But I’m a bang for your bunk kinda guy

I thought the dead pedal is where you put yer left foot? 🤔 I can see where you'd think the throttle on a belt driven driveline was dead tho. The geared driveline on the Talon has instant throttle response all the way to the tires. 😎

PaulF - thanks for the terrific explanation and photos. 👍

 

[Grnminivan]

I thought the dead pedal is where you put yer left foot? 🤔 I can see where you'd think the throttle on a belt driven driveline was dead tho. The geared driveline on the Talon has instant throttle response all the way to the tires. 😎

PaulF - thanks for the terrific explanation and photos. 👍

Yes what I was referring to was the molded section in the floor board where you rest your left foot when it is not on the brake.

 

[Hometeam]

Care to tell us what that's going to cost? 🤔 It's ok if it's nunna my bidness. ☺ Your avatar shows an X right?

Yes I have an X. It is $2000ish. I can't remember the exact splits in the pricing but the actual springs and revalve are in line with everyone else at around the $1200-$1500. Then it was like a couple hundred for the hi/low and a couple hundred to have them actually set the car up height and everything else....I prefer to be there and learn as much from them and about the suspension as I can.

 

[Hometeam]

If you actually like quickness and don't want a pig.... Then don't get a KRX....but if you like slow and soft than its your girl!! Kind of like a Moped....neat thought but don't let your friends see you on one!!🤪

 

[Fyathyrio]

One alternative to completely disconnecting the sway bar is the OffRoad Only dual rate sway bar. $1000 clams is a large investment, but I do know from experience with my Jeep Wrangler that this is a great upgrade. The ability to soften the connection between the shocks on rougher trails to allow more articulation, then stiffen it back up with the flip of a switch for high speed street driving or whatever is nice.

 

[JTW]

I thought the dead pedal is where you put yer left foot? 🤔 I can see where you'd think the throttle on a belt driven driveline was dead tho. The geared driveline on the Talon has instant throttle response all the way to the tires. 😎

PaulF - thanks for the terrific explanation and photos. 👍

Good catch.. in my mind I was thinking the torque management was his complaint.

 

[Lil_Steve]

When you first posted about this product back in June I ordered myself a kit, having the choice to quickly run with/without a rear sway bar is appealing to me. All sorts of delays related to covid means I just got the kit delivered last week, I just installed it yesterday. It's a smart design and will enable me to tailor the comfort of my ride even more. FWIW, i'm running the Eibach rear sway bar and had no trouble installing this kit, installation should be nearly the same for anyone not running a stock rear sway bar.

View attachment 216989

View attachment 216990

Got my first ride in today with the quick release kit, it was very nice to be able to hop out and disconnect the sway bar in a matter of seconds when the terrain got progressively worse. A big thumbs up to the Andy McCoy Race Cars quick release sway bar kit.
The Talon handled the rough stuff beautifully with the bar removed, and when I got back to the twisty stuff it was very easy to hook the sway bar back up.

 

[HondaTech]

Care to tell us what that's going to cost? 🤔 It's ok if it's nunna my bidness. ☺ Your avatar shows an X right?

My boss also has Gforce on his R.
I dont know the specifics on price, but its was game changer.

He's sending the rear back in to try and stiffen it up. The turbo makes so much torque that the rear end squats bad even when adjusted towards stiff. But this is a part time race machine so its a little different than most will want.

 

[79xs]

I must say, this was exactly the information I was looking for. I have been a long time Yamaha and Honda rider. My current daily machine is a 2005 Honda Foreman 500, air cooled, push button shift. Something about being able to downshift a 4x4 on 26s, never gets old. Anyways, I have been tire kicking Honda Talons all year. This whole suspension "issue" has been bugging me. Even more so when I hear it's worse on the X. In Wisconsin, you are limited to a max of 64 inches wide if you wish to go on public trails. A Talon R would keep you off over 1800 miles of trails here. A updated law in 2020 made it clear that they will fine people who lie about the width on their public use registration.

Anyways, what is the scoop? Is the ST "issue" only about doing 50 in the sand? I wish to woods trail ride, hit some mud, some chest deep water, and some rock crawling, but have it be a soft ride. I Also want to use it at the Badlands Off Road Park a few times a year. Will tenders or a spring kit cover most of my concerns?

 

[CID]

<snip>

Anyways, what is the scoop? Is the ST "issue" only about doing 50 in the sand? I wish to woods trail ride, hit some mud, some chest deep water, and some rock crawling, but have it be a soft ride. I Also want to use it at the Badlands Off Road Park a few times a year. Will tenders or a spring kit cover most of my concerns?

The issue with ST is the same as Race Tech to dirt motorcycles - they're racing focused. That'll mean fairly stiffly sprung and valved. For that reason, in spite of name recognition, I'll be going elsewhere. Weller Racing and Gforce are two alternatives. Yes, tenders or springs will help the X but having done springs and valving on my bike, I'm now committed to doing the same on my Talon R.

 

[CumminsPusher]

The issue with ST is the same as Race Tech to dirt motorcycles - they're racing focused. That'll mean fairly stiffly sprung and valved. For that reason, in spite of name recognition, I'll be going elsewhere. Weller Racing and Gforce are two alternatives. Yes, tenders or springs will help the X but having done springs and valving on my bike, I'm now committed to doing the same on my Talon R.

Gotta agree. Everyone listens to them like it’s a magical fix from experts yet where they ride is different from most and how they talk gas nothing to do with what most deal with.
ST has no idea what it’s like to ride locally for me so why’d I listen to anything he has to say. Only thing that stood out to me is he’d prefer the Talon over anything else for rock crawling, I was surprised.
Where they ride personally would bore me so that wouldn’t be my setup. Probably same for them. That’s probably why for suspension setup I don’t generally make a ton of suggestions unless it’s something I think would help anywhere.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Gotta agree. Everyone listens to them like it’s a magical fix from experts yet where they ride is different from most and how they talk gas nothing to do with what most deal with.
ST has no idea what it’s like to ride locally for me so why’d I listen to anything he has to say. Only thing that stood out to me is he’d prefer the Talon over anything else for rock crawling, I was surprised.
Where they ride personally would bore me so that wouldn’t be my setup. Probably same for them. That’s probably why for suspension setup I don’t generally make a ton of suggestions unless it’s something I think would help anywhere.

Yea seems like most of ST is whoops/desert related. Big difference vs trail riding. Gforce, I think is in TN, so might have a good baseline for SE riding. Weller is a great company too but i dont know how their riding compares to ours but good reviews.

 

[JTW]

Gotta agree. Everyone listens to them like it’s a magical fix from experts yet where they ride is different from most and how they talk gas nothing to do with what most deal with.
ST has no idea what it’s like to ride locally for me so why’d I listen to anything he has to say. Only thing that stood out to me is he’d prefer the Talon over anything else for rock crawling, I was surprised.
Where they ride personally would bore me so that wouldn’t be my setup. Probably same for them. That’s probably why for suspension setup I don’t generally make a ton of suggestions unless it’s something I think would help anywhere.

People listen to them because they do a great job actually putting info out there and explaining things in laymen terms. I spent 2 days trying to talk to bandit about spring rate and telling them what I was after and they just kept running me in circles.. “we don’t divulge our spring rates”. It was a bunch of BS. Anyway, KRX all the way ya douche suckers!

 

[PaulF]

The issue with ST is the same as Race Tech to dirt motorcycles - they're racing focused. That'll mean fairly stiffly sprung and valved. For that reason, in spite of name recognition, I'll be going elsewhere. Weller Racing and Gforce are two alternatives. Yes, tenders or springs will help the X but having done springs and valving on my bike, I'm now committed to doing the same on my Talon R.

Got mine back earlier this week from Weller and installed them tonight. They were pretty quick considering my shocks had to be shipped both ways. Kyle is fantastic. Always answered emails and if he couldn't answer my calls, he always called right back. Won't be able to test until next weekend, I will report back. I measured the springs and their spring rates are similar to stock and ST up front (honestly don't think there is really that much wrong with the front to begin with) but the rear spring rates completely shocked (pun intended) me. I think it will be a much smoother ride because I can actually bounce the rear and that is not very easy with stock valving.