P1000 Triple Battery?

[Smitty335]

The batteries are each connected together by two isolators; mains to aux, and then aux to 3rd bat. i.e. with engine off, a load on 3rd batt will have no effect to take either of the other batteries below 12.8 volts. If the engine is on and charging, the 3rd batt will still be handling all that load UNTIL the voltage of the Aux battery goes above 13.4 volts or so. If it does not go above 13.4 the 3rd battery gets no help. When and if it does go above 13.4, the 3rd battery will be charging and the stator will be sharing in providing current to that battery's load. The operative word here is "sharing", so the stator won't be providing all the load to the 3rd battery circuitry as the 3rd battery will be helping also. Note too, that unlike lithium batteries, lead acid batteries have a fairly high internal resistance. This is why a charger for them must provide significantly higher voltage than the batteries normal fully charged voltage of roughly 12.8 or 12.9 , often voltage from a charger can be 15 volts or so overcome the batteries interal resistance so as to force adequate charging current through when charging starts.

Well, that's the right idea, but the order in which isolator will "kick out" is based on the voltage of the connected batteries. When either of an isolator's input drops to 12.8 volts it will no longer take current *from* that battery to pass it to its other connected battery. It works both ways, of course. So, the heavily drained battery will only get help from the True when the True's other battery voltage is at or above about 13.4 volts


Not so. When one of the isolator's terminals goes above 13.4, it will then start providing current to its other connected battery, if that battery is low it will still be providing current to its load, so not ALL of the additional current demand is dumped on the stator, rather the load is shared to a degree. Further, the isolator will stop charging through to the low battery when it's "high" battery falls below 12.8 volts, so the large load on the 3rd battery won't cause excessive loading to any of the other batteries. The low battery, as well as its connected load, will have a variable amount of impedance that will dictate how much of current demand is passed to the stator. The stator's maximum output is limited by it's design as well as its RPM. Max output is at 5,000 rpm (IIRC). Operating at max designed and rated output should not cause premature failure.

Can't beat sun up!

 

[Admin]

 

[HBarlow]

. . . and perhaps the cost of a new Honda oem alternator?

 

[P1K5Dave]

@bumperm thanks for all of your contribution to exploring ideas here. It's been valuable to me and anyone else looking for a better understanding of isolators and auxillary batteries.

As I've noted already, I've been able to determine that the cannons can run just fine as long as there isn't a lot of additional draw on the system. I'm sure there are a number of lights out there that draw 11.67 amps.

So I'm not necessarily even going to a larger (or third) battery. Just exploring ideas.

 

[JMynes]

You really should consider modding your buggy to use the AN/VSS-3 in post #79.
When I was a brand new Private in the Army I went to Tank Gunnery and they were in use.
They are so bright you can see the future.
All you need is 100 amps of 24v.

 

[P1K5Dave]

Another night out with the cannons, and I've gotta tell ya, these lights are awesome.

What I've determined is that it's simply an either/or choice between my overhead Cree LEDs that are built-in to my Audioformz roof, or my new light cannons.

When the overhead light is running, my aux voltmeter runs at 13.8. With the cannons, it's at 13.5.

I now have a full range of choices as to what kind of light I want to cast. More to follow in my build thread.

No need for any mods to my electrical system after all!

 

[ODAMO]

I would be banking on the big battery to give me a lot of buffer time in the absence of enough power from the alternator, and then would make up for it by charging overnight when I'm back home.

If you're "charging overnight" What do you need the lights for?

 

[HBarlow]

If the electrical load exceeds alternator capability and the battery is s discharging (slowly?) the alternator is being forced to operate at maximum charge rate for the entire time the machine is being operated.

I would expect the alternator service life to be shortened and you may experience alternator failure at an inconvenient time and place..

 

[P1K5Dave]

Anyway....

I'm planning on moving on from the cannons because the spot beam on them is too tight, and when I put the euro filter on to disperse the beam, it's too wide and takes away too much of the length. I Will be looking into other options down the line.

 

[bumperm]

If the electrical load exceeds alternator capability and the battery is s discharging (slowly?) the alternator is being forced to operate at maximum charge rate for the entire time the machine is being operated.

I would expect the alternator service life to be shortened and you may experience alternator failure at an inconvenient time and place..

The alternator is designed to output it's max rated current without damage, at least that's my understanding. However, the winch duty cycle is probably more the likely limit. On my Warn 4,500 winch, the duty cycle is 2.5 minutes on, 12 minutes cooling.

 

[Brmcg324]

Being practical, consider adding a third and separate battery for the audio system only. To charge that battery, I would add a manually operated switch to charge that battery from your existing aux battery. Can switch the third battery charging off if the sound quality is affected or if it seems to be pulling down the aux battery too much. I suggest a lithium battery and consider a small 12vdc to 120vac inverter and an ac-powered small battery charger, optimized for the lithium battery. The charging system in the pioneer is optimized to charge the AGM lead-acid batteries with their poor energy storage. It’s all about the amp draw times the hours of continuous draw (known as amp hours). Unfortunately all of these batteries charge much slower than the output power they provide. You could always bring a spare charged battery to swap in for your audio system, keep it cranked up loud.

 

[HBarlow]

The alternator is designed to output it's max rated current without damage, at least that's my understanding. However, the winch duty cycle is probably more the likely limit. On my Warn 4,500 winch, the duty cycle is 2.5 minutes on, 12 minutes cooling.

I don't think so.

Do you have a source for that or is it only your opinion?

 

[HBarlow]

Here is some discussion on the issue:

What Causes an Alternator to go bad? (14 Reasons) - Drive & Cruise Your Country!

What causes an alternator to fail? If the engine's undercover shield is broken (or absent) alternator could have gotten soaked. Driving a vehicle through

driveandcruise.com

This source says an automotive alternator forced to operate at full output capacity for long periods is likely to fail.

Common sense suggests that is true.

 

[Neohio]

Here is some discussion on the issue:

What Causes an Alternator to go bad? (14 Reasons) - Drive & Cruise Your Country!

What causes an alternator to fail? If the engine's undercover shield is broken (or absent) alternator could have gotten soaked. Driving a vehicle through

driveandcruise.com

This source says an automotive alternator forced to operate at full output capacity for long periods is likely to fail.

Common sense suggests that is true.

You are basing your argument on some click bait website?
I clicked the author's name. I couldn't find anything on her credentials as an Engineer or ASE certified tech etc.
Looks like they copy paste a bunch of what they read, organize it on a nice lil website, add referral links and wait for Amazon to send them checks.

 

[HBarlow]

You are basing your argument on some click bait website?
I clicked the author's name. I couldn't find anything on her credentials as an Engineer or ASE certified tech etc.
Looks like they copy paste a bunch of what they read, organize it on a nice lil website, add referral links and wait for Amazon to send them checks.

That's fine but did you find anything that contradicts the link or my statement?

 

[HBarlow]

Here's another link stating the same opinion:

Bad alternator — The 3 most common causes of alternator failure

After you replace the bad alternator, learn the 3 most common causes of alternator failure so you can prevent future failures.

ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com

 

[bumperm]

The Pioneer 1000, at least up until '21, has a 600 watt alternator, that can provide up to 50 amps at 5,000 engine rpm. At lower engine speed, available output will be less. So the question begs, how often and for how long are you going to be winching with the engine at 5,000 rpm, and thus max alternator output available?

As mentioned previously, Warn lists a duty cycle for their winches at about 1 to 5 (2.5 minutes on followed by 12 minutes off for cooling). I suspect for protracted winching, while the alternator may be of some concern, your winch motor will be smoking and cooking motor winding insulation long before the alternator is a problem.