!!....Small Engine Turbo Charger - Small Turbo Kits | RHB31 VZ21 Turbo chargerT-U-R-B-O......AHHHHHHH.....
Spool- Totally pumped!
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!!....Small Engine Turbo Charger - Small Turbo Kits | RHB31 VZ21 Turbo chargerT-U-R-B-O......AHHHHHHH.....
Spool- Totally pumped!
I have ran locked front ends on ATV's and Jeeps and it is low speed on hard surfaces where you have the most problem with understeer or pushing the front end straight. Once going fast and on dirt it is typically not an issue. A locked rear causes more understeer than a locked front, learned that the hard way on a jeep where the rear locker wouldn't unlock and it was scary on pavement.I really really hope this works well. I don't doubt the spools capability to keep the front wheels locked at all, short of breaking something, the front wheels are gonna keep driving. My concern- and this is just me, due to the type of riding I do the most- is how the machine will handle on fast trails with lots of tight turns, or snow plowing where you have to be in 4wd and still make turns. With the front end locked, the machine may tend to want to continue to go straight on slippery surfaces. Hondasrule may be able to give us some info on the snow thing way before I can
For the guys that love to ride mud, no amount of suspension articulation makes any notable difference if one front wheel has more traction than the other- you just gotta have a locker. (about 40 more h.p. would help too....
So does anyone see an issue with this spool? Is this the answer we have been looking for? How easy is the install projected to be?
C
Chooglin
Guest
First off , I think it's awesome what @hondasrule has done hear but I am not a fan of a spool on these little machines. I hope there are plenty of guys that want his spool and he sells many of them !
I am going to be patient and wait on the locker , something that will allow the wheels to differentciate from one another !
I am in no way an expert on this , this is just my opinion
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If most of your riding is off road and not pavement then no, a spool will do you just fine, if you ride a lot on pavement and also want the best off road performance then you want a locker.
Once I get it installed, I will put the machine through it's paces. I ride alot of varied terrain, some slow crawling through the woods on trails that require full lock to lock steering to wiggle through the trees, rock climbing, mud, fast hard packed trails, snow plowing, to miles long runs on pavement. The only terrain I don't ride is sand- there isn't any where I ride, and all four wheels driving couldn't possibly hurt performance in that circumstance. I will give you all the 100% truth, some pictures and videos, and share my experiences along the way- good and bad- just like I've done with the air suspension set-up. The spool install will be easier than the locker, but for all intensive purposes- it's very near the same install. If you've taken the front axles out and replaced boots then you've done a more difficult task- i.m.h.o.- I just don't like doing boots... and I've replaced two rears, two fronts, and one steering rack boot. As far as locker vs spool, I can't give an opinion on a spool, cuz I've never used one, but I have used a locker,(rear only) and I can tell you this, the locker locks (becomes a spool) as soon as any power above very light throttle is applied during a turn. So let's wait and see how the spool actually does before forming any opinions about how it's going to perform in the P500. If y'all may recall, one of the guys with a P700 said his wife drives the machine with the diff's locked, without power steering, with no problems at all... So, I'm very excited, and very hopeful that the spool will work in a broad range circumstances in our P500's!
C
Chooglin
Guest
I would also like your opinion on how the spool acts on pavement In 2wd !
Always 'road rip' in 2wd. Don't worry, I'll do everything I've done while 'testing' the air suspension, with the same reckless abandon
! Here I go replacing boots again....
5 more pcs on cutting room floor.
T-U-R-B-O......AHHHHHHH.....
Locker- Totally pumped!
if you are good with wrenches about 3hrs work . you have to pull out the axle and you will have to remove the diff (comes straight out the front once you remove the bumper and skid plate) also need to unhook the 2wd and 4wd cable plus wire that operates light. and then split the case to remove the carrier. once you have that out you drive out the pinion pin (this is probably the hardest part) and remove gears and reinstall new spool . re assemble
its not terrible but needs to be done carefully. check out some you tube videos of can am locker install . all looks just about the same.
C
Chooglin
Guest
Without getting in to an argument about this subject , I just wanted to mention, this statement is not true , a locker does not become a spool. A locker has the ability to unlock (ratchet)if differential forces are high enough !
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I don’t think I am quite at the level to install, but I am working a plan. With your spool taking out a few players, I may be able to offer my machine to jay man so he can make an install video of the locker coming out without having to remive his new spool. Hehehehehehe
The one I had in a '70 Chevelle absolutely would not unlock under load, only when 'free-wheeling'. If you gave the car any throttle in a tight turn it would lock- was always fun in the rain....and on dry pavement the inside wheel would 'chirp' all way through the turn... What brand of locker did you have that would unlock under throttle?
That's what I had in the Chevelle. Hopefully, the Torqmasters version will be a little more forgiving.
This should clear up why I said that the 'locker' becomes a spool under throttle, based on my experience. This isn't an argument, just clearing up a possible misinterpretation of what I wrote. This is the response to my question to Torqmasters about my concern about power steering or manual steering, and steering effort in general in AUGUST of last year.
From: Cora Jokinen <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 6:44 PM
To: J B****
Subject: Re: Form submission from: Contact Us
HI John,
Thank you for your insights and concerns, I really appreciate your time.
The 1970's unit you used was probably a Detroit Locker, which is another mechanical locker with the same basic principals and similar characteristics. The TORQ Locker never technically 'unlocks' but it does allow for wheel speed differentiation. I assume the Honda has a CVT transmission like the Can-Am? Any time there is any throttle, torque, applied to the locker, both wheels will spin at the same rate.
Steering - We have been racing our Can-Am with a front TORQ Locker in the Ultra4 series, understeer is not noticeable, but the steering takes more effort. Can you tell me more about the Honda units, do they have power steering? Is there more than 1 setting on the power steering? Is the power steering 'smart'? The Can-Am has 3 levels of power steering and tends to flight the locker a bit, in High mode, the steering wheel tries to self center. I wouldn't recommend installing a locker in a unit without power steering.
Noise - rear automatic lockers need to ratchet for wheel speed differentiation, so when folks drive them on the street in a Jeep or truck, you hear click, click, click when coasting through turns. If you are on the throttle through the corner the locker will act like a Spool and both axles will spin at the same speed, sometimes letting out a tire chirp. Front lockers are typically, and should only be used in the dirt. Usually you are going slow enough that you don't hear any ratcheting. If you are going fast in 4WD, coasting through a turn you may hear it. If you are on the throttle in a turn you won't hear it because the locker is acting like a spool. Since the Honda's are open cabs and the front diff is closer to the driver than say in a truck, you may be more likely to hear the locker.
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C
Chooglin
Guest
The point I am trying to make is , regardless of whether you are in 2wd or 4wd drive , a spool will always be locked. There is no way for a spool to be unlocked.
Yes a locker does lock under power but has the ability to unlock. This is why I favor a locker vs spool. I feel that the spool has more effect on the overall handling of the machine vs a locker (2wd and 4wd) !
Yes a locker does lock under power but has the ability to unlock. This is why I favor a locker vs spool. I feel that the spool has more effect on the overall handling of the machine vs a locker (2wd and 4wd) !
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Here is my take on this... p5 only has a 12.8ft turning radius and uses a 24 to 26 inch tire diameter. we know its 50inch to outside of wheel but we use the wheel centerline as width to make it equal as this is what we drive on most of time. So minus 8inch tire width off the 50in total. That leaves 42 inch.
Now the theory part... 26in dia tire travels 81.64 inch (26 x 3.14) which means in a 12.8ft (12.8ft =153.6 inches)turn it rotates only (153.6/81.64) = 1.89times.
now divide the distance across 42/2 =21 and subtract this off the total. 153.6 minus 21= 132.6. (132.6/81.64)= 1.64 so difference between both wheels in a 12.8ft turning radius would be 1.89-1.64= .25
What I am saying is the outside wheel only has to turn slightly faster than the inside wheel given the wheel width and crappy turn radius (like roughly a quarter turn more in a 12.8ft radius ) this leaves me to believe a locker may actually have trouble coupling and uncoupling with such a small amount of wheel travel. And I would also bet this is why no one has an aftermarket locker for a 50inch SXS or atv for that matter.
I would also speculate that there is an engineering issue to overcome before a perfect locker will be available. (I hope they do make one as I too was on this list and would have liked to try it out) This is why I just made my own spool.
*Don't quote me on the math but hopefully you get my point.
Now the theory part... 26in dia tire travels 81.64 inch (26 x 3.14) which means in a 12.8ft (12.8ft =153.6 inches)turn it rotates only (153.6/81.64) = 1.89times.
now divide the distance across 42/2 =21 and subtract this off the total. 153.6 minus 21= 132.6. (132.6/81.64)= 1.64 so difference between both wheels in a 12.8ft turning radius would be 1.89-1.64= .25
What I am saying is the outside wheel only has to turn slightly faster than the inside wheel given the wheel width and crappy turn radius (like roughly a quarter turn more in a 12.8ft radius ) this leaves me to believe a locker may actually have trouble coupling and uncoupling with such a small amount of wheel travel. And I would also bet this is why no one has an aftermarket locker for a 50inch SXS or atv for that matter.
I would also speculate that there is an engineering issue to overcome before a perfect locker will be available. (I hope they do make one as I too was on this list and would have liked to try it out) This is why I just made my own spool.
*Don't quote me on the math but hopefully you get my point.
C
Chooglin
Guest
My thought is that the locker will engage the instant there is presure applied to the ring gear (achieved only in 4x4). The force of the cross pin against the two center halves will push them outward , locking them to the two outer pieces , locking the two axles together.
I don't see how the turning radius , wheel dia. Or anything else has to do with whether or not it will lock or unlock!
I am looking for education , so correct me if I'm wrong !
I don't see how the turning radius , wheel dia. Or anything else has to do with whether or not it will lock or unlock!
I am looking for education , so correct me if I'm wrong !
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