P1000 Yet Another Pioneer 1000 Dual Battery Install - video

[bumperm]

Ok. I'm back with another question for you gurus.

I used a 6 way fuse block with LED indicator that turns on via a switch to the stinger. So I got a little OCD and was using the fancy little stickers to label the fuse block circuits. (winch, radio, turn signal kit, etc). I was doing this by a process of elimination, meaning all the wires were zip tied and loomed up and a little hard to trace. So I pulled fuse, and see what didn't work. This worked until I got to the radio. Typical radio, 1 yellow wired to battery for clock memory, red to switched power when you want it to come on. So with the fuse pulled, radio still was on? WTH?

So I tested fuse block with circuit tester. 12.8 volts with power on and fuse in, 9.8 with fuse removed.

After a simple Google search, I found that this is normal, but doesn't let much amperage through. However, it is enough amperage to still turn on the radio (I guess because it pulls main power from yellow wire). But not blinkers, winch, or anything else so far. If I remove fuse for those items, which have a bigger amperage draw, they do not work. (as expected)

Anybody else have this happen? Any idea on how to fully "break" circuit as if the use was blown? Concerns me that if the fuse ever did actually blow! Then perhaps my radio might have permanent damage issues if ran for a period of time on less voltage.

View attachment 293099 View attachment 293100

That "leakage" voltage and current is going through the diode and it's current limiting resistor, which is in parallel with the fuse. When the fuse is not blown, it shorts across the led/resistor, so it doesn't light. When the fuse is blown, the LED conducts through the current limiting resistor then through the load (radio in this case). Not sure of the size resistor, but say is 1K Ohm. That would result is about 12 mills (milliamps) of current through the load, if the load was a dead short, which it isn't. That may be enough to light an LCD display on the radio, but the radio can't operate with on such a small current limited voltage, nor would it be likely to damage anything.

I didn't like that aspect of the "warning light" fuse panel, so removed that circuitry. I'm old school and can figure out which fuse is blown without the idiot light.

 

[sebowen]

Thank you for responding. I am old school, but most of these fuse blocks all have the "dummy" light now. I liked this particular box because it had a thumb screw to hold cover on.

That said, it is enough to power my radio. Full on completely works, bluetooth, radio, usb in, until I actually unscrew the wire to the terminal it is on that the fuse is already pulled from.

I'm stumped!

 

[bumperm]

Thank you for responding. I am old school, but most of these fuse blocks all have the "dummy" light now. I liked this particular box because it had a thumb screw to hold cover on.

That said, it is enough to power my radio. Full on completely works, bluetooth, radio, usb in, until I actually unscrew the wire to the terminal it is on that the fuse is already pulled from.

I'm stumped!

Me too! I suppose you could do what I did. Remove back of fuse box base, clip small wires going to fuse contact clips. I removed center positive terminal section, then discarded small circuit board with LEDs under that. No more phantom voltages floating around.

 

[sebowen]

That's what I needed to know!
Thank you!

 

[StewB]

I'm thinking cold fusion. You've got a little magic on your hands, be careful who you tell.

 

[buttesink]

To all that have contributed to this thread, THANK YOU!! Can not say how helpful this has been. Big Thanks to Robert for all your time you have put into this, so helpful.
So I’ve been delaying this for sometime but finally have the you know what to attempt to make this happen.
I have a 2017 700-2 delux model. When I purchased, I had Honda install a few items, 13” led roof light, (2) led side pod lights, windshield wipers and warn winch. I just purchased a Inferno heater and plan to get that installed as soon as it comes in.
Now on to the dual battery. I did purchase a 925 Odessey
Question I have has anyone out there tried installing behind the OEM battery under the bed near the air cleaner?
I was going to install it under the driver seat but was thinking of a “maybe” an easier way.
Was thinking I could fabricate a platform and then get a battery mount installed into a whether tight battery box.
Just a thought and wanted to see if anyone may have installed in that area and if so how it worked out?

 

[bumperm]

To all that have contributed to this thread, THANK YOU!! Can not say how helpful this has been. Big Thanks to Robert for all your time you have put into this, so helpful.
So I’ve been delaying this for sometime but finally have the you know what to attempt to make this happen.
I have a 2017 700-2 delux model. When I purchased, I had Honda install a few items, 13” led roof light, (2) led side pod lights, windshield wipers and warn winch. I just purchased a Inferno heater and plan to get that installed as soon as it comes in.
Now on to the dual battery. I did purchase a 925 Odessey
Question I have has anyone out there tried installing behind the OEM battery under the bed near the air cleaner?
I was going to install it under the driver seat but was thinking of a “maybe” an easier way.
Was thinking I could fabricate a platform and then get a battery mount installed into a whether tight battery box.
Just a thought and wanted to see if anyone may have installed in that area and if so how it worked out?

Not familiar with the 700-2, but for optimal service life batteries shouldn't be installed in a very hot environments. Odyssey batteries are more heat tolerant than most. Lead acid battery ratings are typically given for 77 F. They'll have higher than rated output at higher temperatures, but service life decreases inversely with temperature.

 

[buttesink]

Great point Thank You, I’ll keep that in mind
I think it would actually be cooler in the area near the AC not really near anything hot as opposed to under the drivers seat.
I think I’m going to give it a try, a lot easier access if needed,
I’m planning to put the solenoid / isolator under the front hood if the heater allows some additional free space. I was thinking of using #4 wire for the battery connections just because the length.
Do you guys think they maybe a overkill?

 

[bumperm]

Great point Thank You, I’ll keep that in mind
I think it would actually be cooler in the area near the AC not really near anything hot as opposed to under the drivers seat.
I think I’m going to give it a try, a lot easier access if needed,
I’m planning to put the solenoid / isolator under the front hood if the heater allows some additional free space. I was thinking of using #4 wire for the battery connections just because the length.
Do you guys think they maybe a overkill?

Running a winch? Not overkill.

 

[buttesink]

Running a winch? Not overkill.

Perfect Thanks
I am running a winch

 

[buttesink]

Hey All
Like to get some opinions on this-
Here’s a list of the accessories I’ll have when completed.
I’m wondering with such minimal amp draw to each would relays really be necessary?

Warn Winch- dash switch in / out
(1) led light bar-- dash switch on / off 3-watts
(2) aux pod lights-- dash switch on / off 6-watts
(1) light bar w / aux pod lights combined--
dash switch on / off 15 watts
(2) rear aux pod lights-- dash switch on / off and turn on in reverse 10 watts
Heater-- dash switch high / off / low 10 amps
Wipers-- dash switch on / off 7.5
Dual USB charging socket - no switch

Planning to do most all wiring in 14AWG, minus the winch

I’m thinking I’d be OK leaving them out?

Thanks

 

[bumperm]

You might want to consider either a wireless or wired remote for the winch. While the dash switch may seem useful (I don't have one on mine), if that's all you have you would need two people to spool in your winch so the line feeds evenly onto the drum and under some tension. There may also be situations where you might not want to be in the vehicle during winching.

If I understand correctly, you are saying 3-watts for a LED light bar?? Are you meaning amps? Even at 3 amps (formula is volts X amps = watts) that would amount to 36 watts - still a fairly small light bar. A 3 watt light bar would have a seriously tough time earning the name "bar"!

Okay, if you want one panel switch to light all three individual lights at the same time (with each light also having its own switch), that's doable by using three isolation diodes. All three diode, non-banded ends, would be connected to the switched positive terminal of the switch that is to light everything at once. The three banded end leads will go to the positive switched terminal of each of the three individual switches, one for each light. Then each of those 3 positive switched terminals will be wired to their respective lights. That'll work, though I'm not sure of the usefulness of that feature??

BTW, though the rocker switches are typically 20 amp rated, I would consider using a relay much above 10 amps or so. If there's an inductive load (motors, large relay or contactor coils etc.) that's all the more a concern. Inductive loads are harder on switches due to the arcing that occurs during "break" cycle due to inductive kickback.

 

[RobSparre]

Hey All
Like to get some opinions on this-
Here’s a list of the accessories I’ll have when completed.
I’m wondering with such minimal amp draw to each would relays really be necessary?

Warn Winch- dash switch in / out
(1) led light bar-- dash switch on / off 3-watts
(2) aux pod lights-- dash switch on / off 6-watts
(1) light bar w / aux pod lights combined--
dash switch on / off 15 watts
(2) rear aux pod lights-- dash switch on / off and turn on in reverse 10 watts
Heater-- dash switch high / off / low 10 amps
Wipers-- dash switch on / off 7.5
Dual USB charging socket - no switch

Planning to do most all wiring in 14AWG, minus the winch

I’m thinking I’d be OK leaving them out?

Thanks

I think you are fine without relays for all of those. The winch has a contactor, which takes the place of a relay, and everything else is small potatoes. The heater is the only thing coming close. I am adding a heater this fall and have the video in production with whiteboard wiring diagram similar to the dual battery video, and I am not planning to use a relay.

 

[buttesink]

Thanks guys,

Funny the light bar is one of the Honda accessories along with (2) pod lights that I got when I got the bike. The light bar is 14" LED 3-Watt Cree and pods the same each.
I called Honda direct and zero tech guys have a clue to the light specs and pass it on and say call dealer where is purchased the bike and of course vice versa. So i'm "assuming" the light bar is 3 watts and the pods would equal 6-watts. Light bar would be less then 1 amp. I thought that was kind of odd, I thought they would draw more.

Great to hear Rob and looking forward to seeing it!!

 

[Brmcg324]

Just did a lookup on Cree 14-inch light bar. It’s 24 x 3 watt element, total of 72 watts. Most light bars are 100 watts or above. That would still be only 6 amps at 12vdc, reasonable current draw for a rocker switch. Hope that helps!

 

[bumperm]

Thanks guys,

Funny the light bar is one of the Honda accessories along with (2) pod lights that I got when I got the bike. The light bar is 14" LED 3-Watt Cree and pods the same each.
I called Honda direct and zero tech guys have a clue to the light specs and pass it on and say call dealer where is purchased the bike and of course vice versa. So i'm "assuming" the light bar is 3 watts and the pods would equal 6-watts. Light bar would be less then 1 amp. I thought that was kind of odd, I thought they would draw more.

Great to hear Rob and looking forward to seeing it!!

I'm guessing that light bar is the same Honda supplied bar that came on my 1000-5 SE. I haven't measure current draw on it, but they do install it with a relay from the factory (this is not to say it really needs a relay, that's just how they install it - I guess the big upside for them is they are not running heavier gauge wiring to the switch panel, more like 22 AWG, which keeps things neat. Anyway, the light itself is a bit of a disappointment, throwing a relatively narrow spot beam with relatively little spill or peripheral light. The spot is small and well defined. It would not be worth a dang on anything but a quarter mile of arrow straight road!

 

[buttesink]

Thanks All,

I acutaully found the make. It's made by a company, Lazer Star / Atlantis series, sigle row LED and it does state that total draw 14.2v: 1.43amps

It actually puts out pretty good light along with the (2) pod lights.

I think I will add the realy just in case I decide to upgrade.

 

[bumperm]

Thanks All,

I acutaully found the make. It's made by a company, Lazer Star / Atlantis series, sigle row LED and it does state that total draw 14.2v: 1.43amps

It actually puts out pretty good light along with the (2) pod lights.

I think I will add the realy just in case I decide to upgrade.

Good find! Though not to buy IMO, though it's doubtless a quality light. The beam is too narrow, their spec says 6 degrees, it may be that but not a second wider! And $203! Their spec:


Product Dimensions: 1.75"H x 3"D x 14"W
Package Weight: 4.5 lbs.
Beam Pattern Degree: 6° Spot
Lumens: 3,600
Total Amp Draw @ 14.2v: 1.43
IP68 Rated
Cree LED
Operating Temp - 104°F ~ +122°F

This 54" light bar, with an order of magnitude more output, cost me only $124 (their wattage claim is absurd, I measured about 225 watts).
NiLight LED bar

 

[buttesink]

Good find! Though not to buy IMO, though it's doubtless a quality light. The beam is too narrow, their spec says 6 degrees, it may be that but not a second wider! And $203! Their spec:


Product Dimensions: 1.75"H x 3"D x 14"W
Package Weight: 4.5 lbs.
Beam Pattern Degree: 6° Spot
Lumens: 3,600
Total Amp Draw @ 14.2v: 1.43
IP68 Rated
Cree LED
Operating Temp - 104°F ~ +122°F

This 54" light bar, with an order of magnitude more output, cost me only $124 (their wattage claim is absurd, I measured about 225 watts).
NiLight LED bar

Yea Honda took me by the you know what when I purchased the it, accessories you need to get, OK, and you got to get, OK
Not one of my better attributes

 

[Tmorg]

So I installed my dual battery today and I have a question. How longdoes the blue light on tje sbi stay on after you cut off the machine???