P1000 You guys changing your oil every 600 or 1200 miles?

[Floridahond]

An oil change is almost twice the cost as an analysis. I just realized the Honda GN4 10w-30 oil is conventional oil. That somewhat explains why Honda recommends 1200 mi change intervals. High quality full synthetic oil will last way longer. I will send a sample at approx 3K miles (first full synthetic 0w-30) and I would bet it can still provide safe protection well over double that. I think one-year oil change intervals will be the criteria for changes. This will not be guessing, it will be determined by oil analysis. Again, worth every penny!

Synthetic oil can protect longer for sure. But it's still dirty oil. I'd rather get it out and have clean oil even if it's conventional oil.

The way I see it for these machines conventional oil is fine and I'd rather have it clean than extended with synthetic and dirty

 

[cntryby]

A bit on background...
30 years working for a world leading pharmaceutical company. Equipment services, servicing and maintaining all of the automation and robotics manufacturing class 3 medical devices. We had gear boxes the size of recliners, 12v cummins fire safety pumps, hydraulic injection molding machines, lathes, mills, all types of custom automation.

I was a lead on our autonomous maintenance program. I have extensive knowledge of oil analysis and what the results tell you about the oil or fluid being sampled.

We sent oil samples in every six months... for equipment running 24/7.
Oils are better, engines are better designed. (mostly)
Think about it this way... diesel engines in fleets are serviced based on oil analysis results. They can tell you how much copper (from bearings), iron, moisture, and even down to the ingredients of the oil.

Dirty filters, filter better than a new filter. (to a point)

Warranty, as long as you have the documentation from the analysis your covered. They can't blame anything on oil when you have the documentation to prove it was good.

Shelf life. I bought a few cases of GN4 oil years ago, it is still perfect. The additives will separate from the base stock if it sits to long, this is why they say there is a shelf life. I have a burr tumbler which vibrates really hard. I set the oil on the tumbler until I can't see any sediment in the bottom of the jug, then leave it another hour or so. Yes, I sent in samples of brand new "old" oil... perfect.

If anyone wants to change their oil every six hundred... knock yourself out. If you like throwing money away for no good reason other than it makes you "feel" better, it's your prerogative.
For me, I changed on the Honda recommended schedule for the first three oil changes and sent in a sample for each change. Nothing wrong with the oil and 98% of the life of the oil remaining. I now change my oil every 3k. Still has 90% of its life left with no abnormal / high PPM of any contaminants.

BTW, the autonomous maintenance program at work had a net savings of over 1.1 mil annually, in fluid, labor and other expenses for oil changes. This doesn't include machine downtime.

 

[Floridahond]

Well i sat down and read my maint schedule and it appears you are supposed to change your oil every 1200 miles. I was under the impression that since the maint minder deal is good for 600 miles that was for an oil change. What are you guys doing?

Why not 800 mi? Why not a thousand miles?

Those aren't the only options You can do it whenever you want.

When my p520 was new I did it after a hundred miles. Then I did it after two hundred or so miles.

Now I do it once a year which is about 700 or so miles.

Oil life means very little to me. I always do it when the oil gets too dirty for me.

I think too many guys worry about oil life... Well can have lots of life left in it but if it's dirty I want it out of there

 

[Floridahond]

A bit on background...
30 years working for a world leading pharmaceutical company. Equipment services, servicing and maintaining all of the automation and robotics manufacturing class 3 medical devices. We had gear boxes the size of recliners, 12v cummins fire safety pumps, hydraulic injection molding machines, lathes, mills, all types of custom automation.

I was a lead on our autonomous maintenance program. I have extensive knowledge of oil analysis and what the results tell you about the oil or fluid being sampled.

We sent oil samples in every six months... for equipment running 24/7.
Oils are better, engines are better designed. (mostly)
Think about it this way... diesel engines in fleets are serviced based on oil analysis results. They can tell you how much copper (from bearings), iron, moisture, and even down to the ingredients of the oil.

Dirty filters, filter better than a new filter. (to a point)

Warranty, as long as you have the documentation from the analysis your covered. They can't blame anything on oil when you have the documentation to prove it was good.

Shelf life. I bought a few cases of GN4 oil years ago, it is still perfect. The additives will separate from the base stock if it sits to long, this is why they say there is a shelf life. I have a burr tumbler which vibrates really hard. I set the oil on the tumbler until I can't see any sediment in the bottom of the jug, then leave it another hour or so. Yes, I sent in samples of brand new "old" oil... perfect.

If anyone wants to change their oil every six hundred... knock yourself out. If you like throwing money away for no good reason other than it makes you "feel" better, it's your prerogative.
For me, I changed on the Honda recommended schedule for the first three oil changes and sent in a sample for each change. Nothing wrong with the oil and 98% of the life of the oil remaining. I now change my oil every 3k. Still has 90% of its life left with no abnormal / high PPM of any contaminants.

BTW, the autonomous maintenance program at work had a net savings of over 1.1 mil annually, in fluid, labor and other expenses for oil changes. This doesn't include machine downtime.

That's a great analysis and I don't doubt it one bit.

But if the oil is dirty I don't care how much life is in it I don't want those particulates and solids flowing through my engine

 

[GolfCart]

I would think most sxs engine live in much harsher environment than pharmaceutical equipment for example. Dirty conditions, water, large temperature cycles etc.
I'm thinking that may be rougher on the oil?

 

[Scoop]

Change the oil? What's that?

 

[Remington]

Change the oil? What's that?

Oil, you know! The stuff we change when it tastes like chocolate 🤣

 

[StewB]

Change it when it won't fall off a spoon turned upside down.

 

[HondaTech]

1200 mile oil change interval sounds ridiculous. There is a simple and accurate way to determine the condition of used oil (oil analysis). Get a free test kit from Blackstone Labs. Run the oil for the recommended change interval and send a sample of the oil for the standard oil analysis and add a TBN (total base number) test ($28+10=$38). The TBN test will indicate how much life is left in the oil. You would only need to do the test once to determine the EXACT condition of the used oil. Blackstone Labs Well worth every penny!

The difference here, is the oil in Pioneers is being used to actuate clutches, cool a stator, and sheared by transmission gears.


It's doing much more work than your car.

 

[cntryby]

That's a great analysis and I don't doubt it one bit.

But if the oil is dirty I don't care how much life is in it I don't want those particulates and solids flowing through my engine

I agree, but remember, the oil is being pumped through the system after it passes through the filter, particulates are flushed back to the pan and sink, oil goes back through the filter... repeat.
When we check the oil, we are looking at the oil in the reserve, prior to filtering.

That being said, I don't like dirty oil, makes my stomach churn if I can see anything in the oil.

And then I have this tid bit, that I'm not sure about. My Brother in law was, I think, "Master Sergent" or "chief master sergent"... i dunno. He ran the motor pool on Ft Benning Ga. A helicopter didn't leave the ground without his signature. He told me they didn't do oil changes on the helicopters... EVER, filter changes when pressure monitors indicated, and add if low. He said if the oil needed to be changed the engine needed to be rebuilt. They did oil analysis to determine when the engine needed to be rebuilt / replace.

Military... they test the crap out of everything, so is it the "best" way... or just the best way for them since their spending our money.

 

[Floridahond]

I agree, but remember, the oil is being pumped through the system after it passes through the filter, particulates are flushed back to the pan and sink, oil goes back through the filter... repeat.
When we check the oil, we are looking at the oil in the reserve, prior to filtering.

That being said, I don't like dirty oil, makes my stomach churn if I can see anything in the oil.

And then I have this tid bit, that I'm not sure about. My Brother in law was, I think, "Master Sergent" or "chief master sergent"... i dunno. He ran the motor pool on Ft Benning Ga. A helicopter didn't leave the ground without his signature. He told me they didn't do oil changes on the helicopters... EVER, filter changes when pressure monitors indicated, and add if low. He said if the oil needed to be changed the engine needed to be rebuilt. They did oil analysis to determine when the engine needed to be rebuilt / replace.

Military... they test the crap out of everything, so is it the "best" way... or just the best way for them since their spending our money.

Interesting but I'm guessing that they can easily work around his signature considering the army is not going to be dependent on one person for their entire helicopter fleet. But I think he was emphasizing the importance of his job and taking a few liberties bragging.


But to the point if you took every person that was doing his job in the military throughout the country I'm guessing we get a bunch of different opinions and some would call him a quack and some would agree with him entirely just like us on this forum; or anywhere else for that matter.

But you also raise a good point about the dipstick going to the reserve and not the filtered product that goes into the engine. In my case I have the p520 and for 3 quarts of oil I'll stick with my old ATV maintenance habits. My oil and filter won't see 700 mi or if they do what won't be very long 🙂

 

[cntryby]

I would think most sxs engine live in much harsher environment than pharmaceutical equipment for example. Dirty conditions, water, large temperature cycles etc.
I'm thinking that may be rougher on the oil?

You have no idea...
But its irrelevant. Analysis will tell you what your level of contamination is. Thats whats fantastic about it. Theres no guessing, or theorizing or anything... but facts.

The best defense against harsh conditions, MAKE SURE, you air filter compartment is sealed. We have some prefilter material we use for hepa filters at work, blue on one side white on the other, fibers. If I know I'm going out with a group, where I may get stuck in a line eat'n dust, I use a little filter oil on a piece of the prefilter and stick in my intake. By the end of the day it's red from dust. And don't get to frequent on air filter changes. The filters work best with a layer of debris covering the filter media. But don't wait so long it starts choking the engine.

 

[cntryby]

Interesting but I'm guessing that they can easily work around his signature considering the army is not going to be dependent on one person for their entire helicopter fleet. But I think he was emphasizing the importance of his job and taking a few liberties bragging.


But to the point if you took every person that was doing his job in the military throughout the country I'm guessing we get a bunch of different opinions and some would call him a quack and some would agree with him entirely just like us on this forum; or anywhere else for that matter.

But you also raise a good point about the dipstick going to the reserve and not the filtered product that goes into the engine. In my case I have the p520 and for 3 quarts of oil I'll stick with my old ATV maintenance habits. My oil and filter won't see 700 mi or if they do what won't be very long 🙂

No, as the "overseer" of the motor pool he had to sign off on every work service or maintenance work order for every helicopter. If the service records aren't reviewed and approved the machine can't be used. I'm sure they have redundancy's in case anything happens to any of the soldiers, including him, but he was "the" man while he was still in the service.

You do realize I'm just talking about the helicopters at FT Benning Ga, not the whole military?

Ya, I agree, when the volume of oil decreases, I change way more frequent.

 

[Floridahond]

No, as the "overseer" of the motor pool he had to sign off on every work service or maintenance work order for every helicopter. If the service records aren't reviewed and approved the machine can't be used. I'm sure they have redundancy's in case anything happens to any of the soldiers, including him, but he was "the" man while he was still in the service.

You do realize I'm just talking about the helicopters at FT Benning Ga, not the whole military?

Ya, I agree, when the volume of oil decreases, I change way more frequent.

I didn't mention anything about volume of oil but you can be addressed that as you did.

My point about your friend in the military was simply that other people in his position throughout the military might have a different opinion but how often the oil is changed in that helicopter.

 

[cntryby]

I didn't mention anything about volume of oil but you can be addressed that as you did.

My point about your friend in the military was simply that other people in his position throughout the military might have a different opinion but how often the oil is changed in that helicopter.

You mention 3 quarts of oil thats half the 1000's.
1, He's not my friend, he was my Brother in law.
2, It's not his opinion, it was his job, he follows S.O.P's.

All good, have a great one.

 

[StewB]

I agree, but remember, the oil is being pumped through the system after it passes through the filter, particulates are flushed back to the pan and sink, oil goes back through the filter... repeat.
When we check the oil, we are looking at the oil in the reserve, prior to filtering.

That being said, I don't like dirty oil, makes my stomach churn if I can see anything in the oil.

And then I have this tid bit, that I'm not sure about. My Brother in law was, I think, "Master Sergent" or "chief master sergent"... i dunno. He ran the motor pool on Ft Benning Ga. A helicopter didn't leave the ground without his signature. He told me they didn't do oil changes on the helicopters... EVER, filter changes when pressure monitors indicated, and add if low. He said if the oil needed to be changed the engine needed to be rebuilt. They did oil analysis to determine when the engine needed to be rebuilt / replace.

Military... they test the crap out of everything, so is it the "best" way... or just the best way for them since their spending our money.

This is interesting. I've heard that the folks at SD Marine training base don't waste time cleaning guns. They just spray them with Break Free CLP until they break.

 

[cntryby]

worth a read...
Page 25 actually says about changing an oil percentage to establish a new base line in the oil sampling.

Maybe my bro in law isn't as full of poopie as I thought he may be.

https://www.tinker.af.mil/Portals/106/Documents/Technical%20Orders/33-1-37-3.pdf?ver=pXaNBrFylqC-5aJpf8spzw%3D%3D

 

[Bighat]

75 to 80% of engine wear happens during start up.

True, that's where the synthetic is best.

 

[Bighat]

Never once checked my oil... maybe I should... lol. It’s not knocking and still runs. I thought Honda’s ran without oil...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think they do. Read somewhere, one guy had just over 20,000 miles on his pioneer and only change the oil 4 times and that was his first air filter change. They must be tough.

 

[Remington]

I think they do. Read somewhere, one guy had just over 20,000 miles on his pioneer and only change the oil 4 times and that was his first air filter change. They must be tough.

Ole bomar hasnt made a comment on here in 4years I bet. Well last year, but 4 before that? Haha. He poked in back in sept of 22’ I see. He has a
🌈KRX now. One thing to note, If he dosnt want to check his oil, believe me It wont be an issue. 😂