P700 2015 P700 camshaft/Idle issue

[AHA]

I took my 2015 P700 to the dealer yesterday to see why it wouldn't start. I was told today that the camshaft is bad in it. The dealership had asked me several questions about how I used the machine. This machine only has 160 miles on it and mainly is used for farm chores and hauling wood. I let it idle if I will be getting back into it in a short time, but was told by the dealer I should have turned it off instead of letting it run. They indicated that letting this engine idle has caused the camshaft to go bad and this has been a problem with this engine. Anybody else have this same issue?

 

[Admin]

 

[Russ989]

I took my 2015 P700 to the dealer yesterday to see why it wouldn't start. I was told today that the camshaft is bad in it. The dealership had asked me several questions about how I used the machine. This machine only has 160 miles on it and mainly is used for farm chores and hauling wood. I let it idle if I will be getting back into it in a short time, but was told by the dealer I should have turned it off instead of letting it run. They indicated that letting this engine idle has caused the camshaft to go bad and this has been a problem with this engine. Anybody else have this same issue?

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard that, my brother in law has a 2014 with 2800 miles on it and a buddy of mine has one with 10,000 miles on it. I’ve never heard that letting it idle can do that.

 

[MKULTRA]

I use mine for the same type of work as you. I do let it idle alot (in my opinion) & havent noticed any issues yet. It does however die while idling every now & then, but starts right back up. Dont know if that is related to cam issues though.

 

[DG Rider]

A weak point on the 700 that has bitten several people. @Farmer has had it happen not too long ago. And a few others have been reported over the last several months. This dates all the way back to the Rincon.

P700 - NO POWER DURING ACCELERATION

P700 - No Power

 

[HondaTech]

I've yet to see a P700 wear a cam out, but saw several BIg Reds and Rincons with the issue. It was hit or miss, some were low mileage units and others were super high. I've had units that were babied and units that were beat the hell out of day in and day out.

I could never pinpoint any connecting issue or circumstance as to what caused them to fail. I recently replaced a cam chain and tensioner on a Rincon with quite a few miles and the cam looked fine. This guy was a dairy farmer and his Rincon never stopped from sun up to sun down. He only stopped using it beacause the chain finally fell off and it wouldnt start back.

Did another Rincon with over 10,000 miles where the cam finally gave up the ghost and started causing a low rev limiter issue. I dont know that Honda even knows the exact problem with those things, But it seems like the Pioneer had been the least problematic so far, unless maybe they just havent shown up around my parts.

It's sort of the like the Big Red starter, havent had 1 P700 issue, but I must have replaced 50 of them in a Big Red.

 

[AHA]

I've yet to see a P700 wear a cam out, but saw several BIg Reds and Rincons with the issue. It was hit or miss, some were low mileage units and others were super high. I've had units that were babied and units that were beat the hell out of day in and day out.

I could never pinpoint any connecting issue or circumstance as to what caused them to fail. I recently replaced a cam chain and tensioner on a Rincon with quite a few miles and the cam looked fine. This guy was a dairy farmer and his Rincon never stopped from sun up to sun down. He only stopped using it beacause the chain finally fell off and it wouldnt start back.

Did another Rincon with over 10,000 miles where the cam finally gave up the ghost and started causing a low rev limiter issue. I dont know that Honda even knows the exact problem with those things, But it seems like the Pioneer had been the least problematic so far, unless maybe they just havent shown up around my parts.

It's sort of the like the Big Red starter, havent had 1 P700 issue, but I must have replaced 50 of them in a Big Red.

I will post pictures once I get it back from the dealer.

 

[Farmer]

Welcome to the club. I believe yours qualifies for the least amount of miles before it ate it. Unfortunately they installed a 2015 cam in my 14 and now you're confirming issues on that year also.

@HondaTech My local dealer had seen so many Big Red's, Rincons and Pioneers that they kept a few "kits" in stock ready and waiting. Which turned out good since. mine crapped out 1 week before my Canada trip. I get the high mileage cams going out, that makes sense, but low mileage? I would just like to know once and for all what causes these low mileage cams to go out from idling or frequent starts and stops. Is it a manufacturing defect that kills individual cams or is it an oiling/lubrication issue somewhere in the engine??

I've posted it before but I'll see if I can put up another picture of mine.........

 

[DG Rider]

That's what gets me @Farmer...no answer as to why.

The other thing that gets me is that I'm pretty sure the cam In the 700 sits in a little tin bathtub, so dry starts are impossible unless the machine is in its side.

Mine was still going strong at nearly 9000 miles, so maybe that's a good excuse...gotta go riding this weekend, or the cam may crap out!

 

[Farmer]

That's what gets me @Farmer...no answer as to why.

The other thing that gets me is that I'm pretty sure the cam In the 700 sits in a little tin bathtub, so dry starts are impossible unless the machine is in its side.

Mine was still going strong at nearly 9000 miles, so maybe that's a good excuse...gotta go riding this weekend, or the cam may crap out!

I know I try to run it up and down the road whenever I use it. Shouldn't have to worry about it.

 

[HondaTech]

I never have figured it out either. Like mentioned the tin "bath" underneath holds oil, so dry starts shouldnt be an issue.

Its varied wildly with the units I've repaired. Never the same scenario.

 

[DG Rider]

I never have figured it out either. Like mentioned the tin "bath" underneath holds oil, so dry starts shouldnt be an issue.

Its varied wildly with the units I've repaired. Never the same scenario.

Any knowledge of what oils was being run? I switched to synthetic at what many would consider too soon: 1st service...maybe 120 miles.

Also would stay on top of valve adjustments on this machine. Esp the 1st one.

 

[jwfirebird]

how often you check and you find it out a lot?

 

[DG Rider]

how often you check and you find it out a lot?

Mine had loosened up enough by 80 miles that I decided to check them and they were loose. They are supposed to be checked at the initial service, and every 600 miles after that.
I can't remember for sure, but it seems like it took 4-5 adjustments before they settled down and I started finding no need. At that point, I started skipping to every other oil change (ie-1200 miles). This settling down usually happens after 1 or 2 adjustments...but I tend to be very fussy about such things, and there were times when the valves were probably technically "within range", but I just set them to spec.
I def wouldn't skip the 1st 1 or 2. After that...it's probably ok to do so.

 

[jwfirebird]

thanks, my wrench just came on for first service, going to check it and see, obviously don't do the miles you do but lot of hrs stopping and going work and trails are slow, takes all day to go 35 miles

 

[Farmer]

Mine had loosened up enough by 80 miles that I decided to check them and they were loose. They are supposed to be checked at the initial service, and every 600 miles after that.
I can't remember for sure, but it seems like it took 4-5 adjustments before they settled down and I started finding no need. At that point, I started skipping to every other oil change (ie-1200 miles). This settling down usually happens after 1 or 2 adjustments...but I tend to be very fussy about such things, and there were times when the valves were probably technically "within range", but I just set them to spec.
I def wouldn't skip the 1st 1 or 2. After that...it's probably ok to do so.

No offense.... but what would loose lifters have to do with cam wear? I could see tight lifters but there's no way that that would happen unless installed wrong. Right?

 

[DG Rider]

No offense.... but what would loose lifters have to do with cam wear? I could see tight lifters but there's no way that that would happen unless installed wrong. Right?

They wouldn't...unless it just hammered the cam, but tight is what I was thinking.
But there is no way to guarantee they haven't tightened unless you check them. I was just using my machine as an example of the notion that you don't need to have the valves adjusted being false.

 

[Brianvfr750]

Bought a used (2014) pioneer, will be replacing camshaft, after reading it is a somewhat common(?) ailment. Have owned and ridden motorcycles all my life, many Honda’s, including generators, 4x4’s etc., I have a theory on camshaft failures. Mine has only like 375 miles on. It is started and run only a few minutes to fetch mail, haul garbage cans etc., so the normal cold-metal condensation never gets cooked-off. I’ve seen this on my motorcycles with sight-glasses, it’s any engine that’s cold. Most are run or operated until “operating temperature” so it’s never apparent. So after cam replace and whatever else I see/find, it’s going to be to wife and grandkids, if you start it, run it until it’s hot. Have used synthetic oil in all I own for 35 years, but you mix enough water with it, cannot properly protect. Especially “sliding” wear like cam vs roller bearings or babbits. Just a thought.

 

[DG Rider]

Bought a used (2014) pioneer, will be replacing camshaft, after reading it is a somewhat common(?) ailment. Have owned and ridden motorcycles all my life, many Honda’s, including generators, 4x4’s etc., I have a theory on camshaft failures. Mine has only like 375 miles on. It is started and run only a few minutes to fetch mail, haul garbage cans etc., so the normal cold-metal condensation never gets cooked-off. I’ve seen this on my motorcycles with sight-glasses, it’s any engine that’s cold. Most are run or operated until “operating temperature” so it’s never apparent. So after cam replace and whatever else I see/find, it’s going to be to wife and grandkids, if you start it, run it until it’s hot. Have used synthetic oil in all I own for 35 years, but you mix enough water with it, cannot properly protect. Especially “sliding” wear like cam vs roller bearings or babbits. Just a thought.

Make sure you clean the oil pickup screen as well.

 

[HondaTech]

Make sure you clean the oil pickup screen as well.

Crankcase has to be split in order to clean that screen.

 

[DG Rider]

Crankcase has to be split in order to clean that screen.

I know...and it sucks, but easier than doing it all again in a month or two.