2022 gear ratio update info?

[SLOWPOKE693]

I think he might be referring to Pioneer only, the Talon ratios show to all be the same. Even the 2 large final gears in the sub trans are the same teeth count.

When I checked I thought both the Talon and the Pioneer got a lower high range gear in the sub transmission in 2022 the smaller of the gear of the gear set set in the Talon is a one piece gear instead of the Pioneers two

I'm back to being confused... What part numbers did you specifically order for both gears? Did you mix the 2022 Talon and Pioneer gears together to keep the smaller gear from being 2 piece like the Pioneer? If that's the case and it works, that's telling me that my stock 25T gear will work with the lower ratio 49T gear because on the Talon side nothing changed from 2019-2022 that I can tell. The 2022 Talon is still the same 47/25 tooth count that it was in 2019.


Edit to clarify...

-You ordered the big gear for a 2022 Pioneer to get the 49T count gear (23681-HL4-AJ0)

-You ordered a 2022 Talon small gear that is a 25T count one piece gear (23670-HL6-AA0)

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

This is all the part numbers including the two piece Pioneer subtrans gear to replace the one piece Talon gear to keep everything matching.

I'm not convinced the stock one piece 25T gear from the Talon is going to match up with the new Pioneer gear so I plan to order all of it and figure it out from there.

 

[GPR1500SC]

I have installed the 2022 Pioneer 23671-HL4- AJ0
Sorry for the confusion the one piece Talon gear will not work.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I have installed the 2022 Pioneer 23651-HL4- AJ0
Sorry for the confusion the one piece Talon gear will not work.

That part number is for the small low gear. Did you have to change that one over to the two piece Pioneer also or was that a misprint?

 

[Smitty335]

That part number is for the small low gear. Did you have to change that one over to the two piece Pioneer also or was that a misprint?

Are you guys still grumpy?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Are you guys still grumpy?

Not at all, I'm actually pretty excited about this new gear info but I want to be sure I order everything I need to do it right.

@GPR1500SC is the only one I know running this setup so his input and knowledge of what parts are needed is invaluable to me.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I didn't realize it until my wife just brought the box in the house but my CryoHeat subtrans input shaft showed up today.

 

[GPR1500SC]

That part number is for the small low gear. Did you have to change that one over to the two piece Pioneer also or was that a misprint?

Yes 23671-HL4- AJ0 is the small gear and you will need 23672-HL4-AJ0 called a gear guide and Yes it will be the Pioneers two piece gear.
I have done serval 4wd 9,500 rpms clutch dumps on dry asphalt with the stock tires and its hasn't broke yet so we will see if it holds up to racing I think it will.
if you don't spend a lot of time over 70 mph the stock Talon 6th gear might be fastest?
I love the Pioneer 6th gear for cruising be cause it helps the engine to run at lower rpms on my 32 inch Mega Bites I ended up putting on but for racing it might be better to just hold your engine rpms higher.

Not at all, I'm actually pretty excited about this new gear info but I want to be sure I order everything I need to do it right.

@GPR1500SC is the only one I know running this setup so his input and knowledge of what parts are needed is invaluable to me.

Actually Smitty, SlowPoke has help give me direction on finding part via PM earlier this year so I should be Thanking him.
he wasn't listening so I had to smack him to get his attention its all cool.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Yes 23671-HL4- AJ0 is the small gear and you will need 23672-HL4-AJ0 called a gear guide and Yes it will be the Pioneers two piece gear.
I have done serval 4wd 9,500 rpms clutch dumps on dry asphalt with the stock tires and its hasn't broke yet so we will see if it holds up to racing I think it will.
if you don't spend a lot of time over 70 mph the stock Talon 6th gear might be fastest?
I love the Pioneer 6th gear for cruising be cause it helps the engine to run at lower rpms on my 32 inch Mega Bites I ended up putting on but for racing it might be better to just hold your engine rpms higher.

Actually Smitty, SlowPoke has help give me direction on finding part via PM earlier this year so I should be Thanking him.
he wasn't listening so I had to smack him to get his attention its all cool.

I just noticed that my high gear is two piece and just splined together. That makes me think I can just swap my gear guide from one gear to the other without requiring extra parts from the Pioneer....

I also just went back through my PMs to see what you were talking about.😆 Man, I'm sorry for recommending the DCR/Hess cam. At the time I had no idea they had that problem spinning the timing gear. I ended up going with a BC cam and the timing gear bolt thing is all apart of the cam.

 

[GPR1500SC]

the guide gear pictured will work the corners are a little worn where the shift collar engages it but not to bad.
I probably would replace it as preventive maintenance.

 

[Smitty335]

Yes 23671-HL4- AJ0 is the small gear and you will need 23672-HL4-AJ0 called a gear guide and Yes it will be the Pioneers two piece gear.
I have done serval 4wd 9,500 rpms clutch dumps on dry asphalt with the stock tires and its hasn't broke yet so we will see if it holds up to racing I think it will.
if you don't spend a lot of time over 70 mph the stock Talon 6th gear might be fastest?
I love the Pioneer 6th gear for cruising be cause it helps the engine to run at lower rpms on my 32 inch Mega Bites I ended up putting on but for racing it might be better to just hold your engine rpms higher.

Actually Smitty, SlowPoke has help give me direction on finding part via PM earlier this year so I should be Thanking him.
he wasn't listening so I had to smack him to get his attention its all cool.

I figured as much , I was just messing around! HA!

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I heard a rumor that there is a batch of 300M input shaft for the sub-trans being made (with improvements) and they will be done in a little over a month. 😁

 

[ODAMO]

I heard a rumor that there is a batch of 300M input shaft for the sub-trans being made (with improvements) and they will be done in a little over a month. 😁

Gettin stuff done.....
Very interesting and informative thread.
On a slightly different gearing question. I was wondering if you know the diameter of the rear ring gear(spool) on the Talon and if it’s the same size as the pioneer rear ring gear. I’ve not had mine apart but measuring using the drain plug the Pioneer ring gear looks to be about 7.75 dia.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I've never taken one apart but next time I'm in the garage I'll try and remember to look.

What are you thinking?

 

[906UP]

Gettin stuff done.....
Very interesting and informative thread.
On a slightly different gearing question. I was wondering if you know the diameter of the rear ring gear(spool) on the Talon and if it’s the same size as the pioneer rear ring gear. I’ve not had mine apart but measuring using the drain plug the Pioneer ring gear looks to be about 7.75 dia.

The P1K uses a straight cut ring that bolts to the differential, the T1K has a spiral bevel cut gear that is machined into the spool.

P1K


T1K

 

[ODAMO]

I've never taken one apart but next time I'm in the garage I'll try and remember to look.

What are you thinking?

I was just curious about interchangeability from one to the other. And which one Honda felt needed to be stronger.. Which setup do you think is stronger?

 

[906UP]

I was just curious about interchangeability from one to the other. And which one Honda felt needed to be stronger.. Which setup do you think is stronger?

Without a doubt the T1K design is stronger, spiral bevels have much more contact area, along with that the spool has no extra parts. It's machined out of 1 piece.

Straight cut gears are cheap & easy to produce vs spiral bevels which require more machining post heat treat (expensive)

There is no "interchangeability", apples to oranges so to say. The only way to do so would be to swap the entire diff housing...... frame mounts, custom axle lengths, etc.

 

[DRZRon1]

hey, for your broken shafts, you think the spring in the rear driveshaft is there to take shock load, etc. ?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

We are right back to

hey, for your broken shafts, you think the spring in the rear driveshaft is there to take shock load, etc. ?

What spring are you talking about?

 

[DRZRon1]

is part 4 in rear shaft assembly