Air filter failure

[bigshoe]

If it's not using oil smoking or Any power lost and compression is good than there's nothin wrong with engine at 15000 miles there's gonna be a few scratches. Till it starts doing one the above run it there just taking u for a ride! I've spent alot of time with scopes on dirt track engines cking for cracked or burnt piston never paid much mind to scratches they always look worse than they actually are.

 

[Admin]

 

[bigshoe]

Also if there's deep scratches then there should be a horrible amount of blow by. airfilter and box should be soaked in oil. Just putting a scope in there saying there's scratches with no other signs, as blow by or compression lost or smoking is complete bs get your sxs back and don't go back there

 

[highpocket74]

This is absolutely NOT normal. My first couple filters were jam packed before I got my S&B and never did my clean side ever have even the slightest film. 3000 miles later, my clean side has never had to be cleaned and looks brand new.

You have a leak on the clean side. There have been a few with bad gaskets but there have also been several with improperly fitted and/or loose tubes on the throttle body.

When I heard that at first I called BS, how can dirt travel backwards??? Then it was explained that the engine pulses actually cause air to move back an forth between the intake tubes (as one intake is closed, the other is open and momentarily decreases pressure and draws air up the opposite tube). If there is a leak anywhere in the tube, that turbulence will cause any sucked in dust to travel from one tube, up into the clean side and back down the other and put a light film on everything. The more the filter gets coated with dirt and begins to get restricted, the more dust will get sucked in on the clean side.

A leak on the clean side may also explain why the filter minder may not have worked properly.

If the compression is still good and it isn't using any oil, you might be OK. You are in Utah so bring it to my shop and we can scope the cylinders with my camera through the spark plug holes.

In any case, I'll give you 12K cash!!!

I second this. There was a leak after the filter on the intake that did not trigger the filter minder with excess vacuum. My airbox cover gasket was out of the groove on one corner the first time I opened for inspection after 200 miles.

 

[Dankathy]

This is absolutely NOT normal. My first couple filters were jam packed before I got my S&B and never did my clean side ever have even the slightest film. 3000 miles later, my clean side has never had to be cleaned and looks brand new.

You have a leak on the clean side. There have been a few with bad gaskets but there have also been several with improperly fitted and/or loose tubes on the throttle body.

When I heard that at first I called BS, how can dirt travel backwards??? Then it was explained that the engine pulses actually cause air to move back an forth between the intake tubes (as one intake is closed, the other is open and momentarily decreases pressure and draws air up the opposite tube). If there is a leak anywhere in the tube, that turbulence will cause any sucked in dust to travel from one tube, up into the clean side and back down the other and put a light film on everything. The more the filter gets coated with dirt and begins to get restricted, the more dust will get sucked in on the clean side.

A leak on the clean side may also explain why the filter minder may not have worked properly.

If the compression is still good and it isn't using any oil, you might be OK. You are in Utah so bring it to my shop and we can scope the cylinders with my camera through the spark plug holes.

In any case, I'll give you 12K cash!!!

Makes perfect sense to me. I do think it uses "some" oil.when i drain oil out of anything i pour it in a 5gal bucket,so no quantifiable measure. How much usage is to much? I do think there is blow by, but it's not running out of the air box. If you would meet me at 10k and come down to sand hollow to pick it up, i think i would rather take my chances on a new one.

 

[Dankathy]

Just to clarify, was the dirt evident immediately after the filter, or further downstream? There was a youtuber whose engine got dusted, but it turned out there was an intake boot connection that was allowing dirt entry due to an assembly error at the plant.

Don't know,wish i did. Would be proof of what paul says, it was all nicely cleaned up when i got there. Not at all sure it would have registered on me any way.

 

[McCarthy]

Go get your machine man.

 

[Dankathy]

Also if there's deep scratches then there should be a horrible amount of blow by. airfilter and box should be soaked in oil. Just putting a scope in there saying there's scratches with no other signs, as blow by or compression lost or smoking is complete bs get your sxs back and don't go back there

Agree, but i do think its using oil, have to check to see how much. I do smell oil vapor, dont know if its blow by or out of the exhaust. Confidence has been shaken, if paul will go 10k i'll try my luck again with a new one

 

[Dankathy]

I second this. There was a leak after the filter on the intake that did not trigger the filter minder with excess vacuum. My airbox cover gasket was out of the groove on one corner the first time I opened for inspection after 200 miles.

Agree

 

[Dankathy]

I'm a light throttle driver myself, a filter would have to be really plugged up for me to notice a performance drop off. A guy can carry good speed without bouncing off the rev limiter.

Yeah, i didn't want to get old either

 

[PaulF]

Makes perfect sense to me. I do think it uses "some" oil.when i drain oil out of anything i pour it in a 5gal bucket,so no quantifiable measure. How much usage is to much? I do think there is blow by, but it's not running out of the air box. If you would meet me at 10k and come down to sand hollow to pick it up, i think i would rather take my chances on a new one.

Mine has 3500 miles and uses ZERO oil, even wide open all day at the dunes so I would say any oil consumption is not normal.

Let me think on that price for a bit. I will PM you later today.

 

[bigshoe]

Agree, but i do think its using oil, have to check to see how much. I do smell oil vapor, dont know if its blow by or out of the exhaust. Confidence has been shaken, if paul will go 10k i'll try my luck again with a new one

Your confidence has been shaken over complete bs if u weren't on the other side of country for 10g I would be there tomorrow.

 

[906UP]

Your confidence has been shaken over complete bs if u weren't on the other side of country for 10g I would be there tomorrow.

I looked, from my place to the middle of Utah (wasn't sure of the town) is 28-30 hrs & 1850 miles one way.....and I'm still tempted.

 

[bigshoe]

Don't know,wish i did. Would be proof of what paul says, it was all nicely cleaned up when i got there. Not at all sure it would have registered on me any way.

U haven't seen any of this yourself, go get your machine im prettyscrewing u

I looked, from my place to the middle of Utah (wasn't sure of the town) is 28-30 hrs & 1850 miles one way.....and I'm still tempted.

Yea to sand hollow Utah im 31 hours 2100 miles lol but for 10g and a perfect running talon I might call off tomorrow !

 

[CID]

Yeah, i didn't want to get old either

Gettin' old is better 'n not gettin' old.

 

[PaulF]

U haven't seen any of this yourself, go get your machine im prettyscrewing u

I think you may want to go back and read the entire thread. Dan has been aware of fine dust on the clean side of the filter since the machine was NEW. He just didn't know it was not normal...

I appreciate your response. Our use and opinion are very much alike. Just to be clear on how i got to here, i ran about 3000 miles on the stock filters, replacing many in the process. When i was changing filters from when new i would consistently find a fine layer of dust on the clean side- didn't know what to do about it other than make certain that the install was perfect( in an ocd way!). At about 3000 miles, i went to the uni and a filter minder, cleaned it every 700-1000 miles and life was good- just messy. Fast forward to about 14000 miles i did a donaldson topspin precleaner. Good stuff and proven technology, but i had a hard time finding one the"right" size and went to big. I check the dirty side drain tube every few rides, and when i saw dirt i went back to the uni. That was about 14500 miles. At 15800 miles i took it in for a valve adjustment and the clean side had more than enough dirt in it. Right or not, i suspect that the factory filter micron rating is higher than desirable. Would like to hear from some of the guys who ride this fine desert dust who see the inside of theirs regularly. I think this is the result of a slow steady degradation, not a big one time gulp of dirt.

I am pretty sure the intake tube(s) and/or the TB plate were improperly installed from the factory (this won't be the first one or the last) and this engine has been gulping dust since mile 1.

A few posts later, Dan says he smells burning oil. Another sign something is wrong...

Agree, but i do think its using oil, have to check to see how much. I do smell oil vapor, dont know if its blow by or out of the exhaust.

None of this is normal for a "healthy" Talon. The cylinders are most likely near toast. What else might there be hiding in that engine???

Sounds like you would be willing to drive 2000+ miles and pay $10K to find out.

 

[906UP]

I think you may want to go back and read the entire thread. Dan has been aware of fine dust on the clean side of the filter since the machine was NEW. He just didn't know it was not normal...



I am pretty sure the intake tube(s) and/or the TB plate were improperly installed from the factory (this won't be the first one or the last) and this engine has been gulping dust since mile 1.

A few posts later, Dan says he smells burning oil. Another sign something is wrong...



None of this is normal for a "healthy" Talon. The cylinders are most likely near toast. What else might there be hiding in that engine???

Sounds like you would be willing to drive 2000+ miles and pay $10K to find out.

I think this is just a case of 2 different viewpoints of what is considered an issue even though there really doesn't seem to be a problem and those who really DGAF. Dirt got in the intake track, that sucks. The OP stated it was running fine, so whats the issue? Clean it up, fix the leak and get on with it.

To me the Talon is a toy, nothing more. Just a big hunk of plastic, steel & alum with slightly more tech than a high-end lawn mower. If it breaks I'll fix it....no biggy. Would I buy it for $10K knowing the potential problems if it were a couple hundred miles from me....in a heartbeat!

In my opinion its a non issue once the leak is found but its his call, not mine.

 

[bigshoe]

I think you may want to go back and read the entire thread. Dan has been aware of fine dust on the clean side of the filter since the machine was NEW. He just didn't know it was not normal...



I am pretty sure the intake tube(s) and/or the TB plate were improperly installed from the factory (this won't be the first one or the last) and this engine has been gulping dust since mile 1.

A few posts later, Dan says he smells burning oil. Another sign something is wrong...



None of this is normal for a "healthy" Talon. The cylinders are most likely near toast. What else might there be hiding in that engine???

Sounds like you would be willing to drive 2000+ miles and pay $10K to find out.

I did read the entire post he didn't say I took it to the dealer because I was smelling oil and needed valves adjusted, just for valves. if I was within a reasonable drive I would be knocking on his door for it for 10g and be able to make a h*** of a profit.

 

[McCarthy]

If the border was open i'd pay 10 for that

 

[CID]

Dan -
Let the dealer know about the throttle body connections being found fubar on several 'internet' Talons. If yours aren't connected properly, Honda has stepped up to the repair 'for some'. There's a thread on here somewhere about that very thing but I have no idea how to find it, it's been several months.

 

[Lil_Steve]

Dan -
Let the dealer know about the throttle body connections being found fubar on several 'internet' Talons. If yours aren't connected properly, Honda has stepped up to the repair 'for some'. There's a thread on here somewhere about that very thing but I have no idea how to find it, it's been several months.

This one?

THOUGHTS?

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