P1000 Air Intake Design

[dswv42]

The Honda engineers who designed the air filter system for the Honda Pioneer 1000 must have been drunk.

Seriously, they designed an engine air intake system with a wet sump and no drain to allow water to escape, then placed the intake in the front to ensure that its always full of water. And if the machine is never submerged, condensation will probably fill it anyway, except that it might take a little longer. Adding insult to injury, they also made the air filter box difficult to access by putting it under the bed and requiring tools to open it, then using a secondary plastic cover to hide the entire mess.

But hey, at least they remembered to include some sweet sound resonance chambers in the air intake tube. We can't be reminding people that it's there with all that pesky noise, now can we? Never fear, I'm sure the Honda engineers are working on a fix, just like that plastic thing they came up with for the front air intake inlet.

 

[Admin]

 

[dswv42]

But hey, at least they remembered to include some sweet sound resonance chambers in the air intake tube.

To be clear, I was over simplifying the purpose of the airbox resonance chambers, just for the sake of some added humor. The following videos do a great job of explaining airbox resonance chambers (helmholtz resonator) in more detail. They can be used for sound reduction, to boost performance, or both.

 

[CID]

^^^ This is why I chose to keep the goofy air intake chamber on my Talon and not just replace it with a snorkel that eliminates it. Hondabob's snorkel idea keeps that goofy air chamber.

 

[dswv42]

^^^ This is why I chose to keep the goofy air intake chamber on my Talon and not just replace it with a snorkel that eliminates it. Hondabob's snorkel idea keeps that goofy air chamber.

View attachment 212242

Indeed, there's much more to airbox resonators than many people realize. However, in the case of the Honda Pioneer 1000, I think the possibility of hydrolocking the engine due to the increased risk of water ingestion from the air intake design, outweighs the relatively minor sound reduction or performance gains that might be provided.

With this in mind, I'm working on an idea that not only reduces the risks of accidental air intake water ingestion, but also provides a viable solution to the heat problems so many people have experienced. It's actually a pretty slick idea, unlike anything I've seen before. Rather, it's a variation of some previous ideas, but with a new twist.

 

[CID]

Indeed, there's much more to airbox resonators than many people realize. However, in the case of the Honda Pioneer 1000, I think the possibility of hydrolocking the engine due to the increased risk of water ingestion from the air intake design, outweighs the relatively minor performance gains that might be provided.

With this in mind, I'm working on an idea that not only reduces the risks of accidental air intake water ingestion, but also provides a viable solution to the heat problems so many people have experienced. It's actually a pretty slick idea, unlike anything I've seen before. Rather, it's a variation of some previous ideas, but with a new twist.

Looking forward to seeing fresh eyes on the problem, good luck. Brainstorming is how we got men on the moon, robots on Mars and Voyager leaving the solar system. 👍

 

[dswv42]

Looking forward to seeing fresh eyes on the problem, good luck. Brainstorming is how we got men on the moon, robots on Mars and Voyager leaving the solar system. 👍

Believe me, I'm itching to tell everyone about my great new idea, but as some of the more experienced builders can attest, this stuff can be pretty complicated, and my idea is still very much in it's infancy. Regardless, I'm 99% sure it will work, I just need time to sort out the details.

 

[dswv42]

Does anyone have clear pictures of the factory air intake snorkle resonance tube assembly, preferably with it removed from the machine? It's part numbers 13, 14 and 15 in the diagram below.

 

[dswv42]

I'm still working out some minor details, and will have to wait until I purchase a new Honda Pioneer 1000-3 to perform testing, but I'm going to throw this out there and let everyone bounce it around if they want. I may create a more detailed writeup at a later time. Basically, I believe that if the air intake duct can be successfully relocated without causing unintended consequences, the existing air duct could be used to direct high velocity air straight at the problematic exhaust manifolds, thus forcing it out the back of the machine.

As everyone knows, the exhaust manifolds get very hot, and can even exceed 1000 degrees farenheit under the right circumstances, such as a misfire. Considering the fact that there is plastic directly overhead, it can be a recipe for disaster. At the very least, it can make things uncomfortbly hot, as everyone already knows.

As it turns out, the placement of the factory air duct appears to be perfectly suited to use for exhaust manifold heat reduction, only the air resonator chamber section will have to be removed because it would not be needed. Note the location and alignment of the air duct and how it points directly towards the exhaust manifold pipes at just about the right height.

It also negates the requirement to have noisy bilge fans firectly under the seat, which would drive me crazy.

All one would have to do is put a rubber 45 degree elbow on the end of the air tube and adjust it as required. Which brings me to the part I haven't quite worked out yet, how to move the air through the duct. One could install an inline bilge fan under the floor pan, or possibly under the air intake inlet. Alternatively, it might be possible to install a more powerful blower under the air inlet housing, or possibly even over it, but there might not be enough space. Regardless, one should careful to isolate the entire air duct assembly using rubber bushings to prevent sound transmission through the air duct and into the chassis. Otherwise, bilge fans and blowers tend to be waterproof, so accidental water ingestion into the air intake inlet shouldn't be a problem. A small drain hole could be drilled into the bottom of the air tube to allow water to drain on its own.

Lastly, it might even be possible to use a forward facing hood scoop or snorkel inlet to have positive airflow while the machine is moving, which might negate the need for a fan or blower at all, but I don't know if it would provide sufficient airflow.

 

[joeymt33]

I think you’re over thinking it maybe. Seriously, I’ve had my pioneer since late 2015 and put 5000 brutal miles on it. Never had condensation or any other trouble. I did snorkel in early 2016 through the hood. I’ve not had any sleepless nights worrying about it.....just fun on the trails.

There are many others besides me that have figured this stuff out already, let’s go ride!

I’ve broken axles, tie rods, smoked two
Rear diffs, broken drive shafts, bent frame, etc. But never had a water infestation issue. I had water in both diffs multiple time and the sub trans a couple of time. I enjoy a clean air filter, no loud intake noise in the can and no water sucking in.

 

[dswv42]

I think you’re over thinking it maybe. Seriously, I’ve had my pioneer since late 2015 and put 5000 brutal miles on it. Never had condensation or any other trouble. I did snorkel in early 2016 through the hood. I’ve not had any sleepless nights worrying about it.....just fun on the trails.

There are many others besides me that have figured this stuff out already, let’s go ride!

I’ve broken axles, tie rods, smoked two
Rear diffs, broken drive shafts, bent frame, etc. But never had a water infestation issue. I had water in both diffs multiple time and the sub trans a couple of time. I enjoy a clean air filter, no loud intake noise in the can and no water sucking in.

Unfortunately, thinking is all I can do until the 2021 models finally become widely available and the prices fall out of the stratosphere. Until then, it never hurts to consider new ideas. Most people simply don't care unless they have a problem, but I find this stuff rather interesting.

 

[Redmoon]

The Honda engineers who designed the air filter system for the Honda Pioneer 1000 must have been drunk.

Seriously, they designed an engine air intake system with a wet sump and no drain to allow water to escape, then placed the intake in the front to ensure that its always full of water. And if the machine is never submerged, condensation will probably fill it anyway, except that it might take a little longer. Adding insult to injury, they also made the air filter box difficult to access by putting it under the bed and requiring tools to open it, then using a secondary plastic cover to hide the entire mess.

But hey, at least they remembered to include some sweet sound resonance chambers in the air intake tube. We can't be reminding people that it's there with all that pesky noise, now can we? Never fear, I'm sure the Honda engineers are working on a fix, just like that plastic thing they came up with for the front air intake inlet.

Not until they fix the excessive engine heat ie. Factory cooling fan (s) in the engine compartment. Or extend the vent lines at the factory. Or seal the doors to the body when closed. Or a fan shroud so that the air is pulled through the radiator efficiently with a bigger radiator.
Really we have had our machine for a bit over a year now and have fixed most of these and other little nit picky items and love it but it took some work.

 

[Vikes79]

The air intake setup is essentially the same as a Polaris Ranger ( at least the older ones). I would guess other Utvs are similar.

Cold / fresh air in at the front and a primary filter over the top of the engine. Similar design for the belt cooling intake.

Not sure this qualifies Honda Engineers as dummies.

 

[0860silverado]

I'm still working out some minor details, and will have to wait until I purchase a new Honda Pioneer 1000-3 to perform testing, but I'm going to throw this out there and let everyone bounce it around if they want. I may create a more detailed writeup at a later time. Basically, I believe that if the air intake duct can be successfully relocated without causing unintended consequences, the existing air duct could be used to direct high velocity air straight at the problematic exhaust manifolds, thus forcing it out the back of the machine.

View attachment 212340

As everyone knows, the exhaust manifolds get very hot, and can even exceed 1000 degrees farenheit under the right circumstances, such as a misfire. Considering the fact that there is plastic directly overhead, it can be a recipe for disaster. At the very least, it can make things uncomfortbly hot, as everyone already knows.

View attachment 212344

As it turns out, the placement of the factory air duct appears to be perfectly suited to use for exhaust manifold heat reduction, only the air resonator chamber section will have to be removed because it would not be needed. Note the location and alignment of the air duct and how it points directly towards the exhaust manifold pipes at just about the right height.

View attachment 212342

It also negates the requirement to have noisy bilge fans firectly under the seat, which would drive me crazy.

View attachment 212343

All one would have to do is put a rubber 45 degree elbow on the end of the air tube and adjust it as required. Which brings me to the part I haven't quite worked out yet, how to move the air through the duct. One could install an inline bilge fan under the floor pan, or possibly under the air intake inlet. Alternatively, it might be possible to install a more powerful blower under the air inlet housing, or possibly even over it, but there might not be enough space. Regardless, one should careful to isolate the entire air duct assembly using rubber bushings to prevent sound transmission through the air duct and into the chassis. Otherwise, bilge fans and blowers tend to be waterproof, so accidental water ingestion into the air intake inlet shouldn't be a problem. A small drain hole could be drilled into the bottom of the air tube to allow water to drain on its own.

Lastly, it might even be possible to use a forward facing hood scoop or snorkel inlet to have positive airflow while the machine is moving, which might negate the need for a fan or blower at all, but I don't know if it would provide sufficient airflow.

I think this is a brilliant idea!!! I'm envisioning an electrically modified (to feed from Honda 12VDC electrical system) leaf blower. The nozzle is probably the same size as the intake tube and you'd have a powerful and efficient squirrel cage type blower/motor that could be mounted in front of the radiator. Hmmmm...

 

[0860silverado]

Imma do it.

 

[0860silverado]

Mount this bad boy on yer hood like a funny car air intake and instill fear in all yer Polaris riding buddies!!!

 

[joeymt33]

Unfortunately, thinking is all I can do until the 2021 models finally become widely available and the prices fall out of the stratosphere. Until then, it never hurts to consider new ideas. Most people simply don't care unless they have a problem, but I find this stuff rather interesting.

You’re right, it never hurts to think about it. There was tons of discussions and sleepless nights when the stuff was new and none of this was figured out.

 

[Vikes79]

View attachment 212379View attachment 212387
Imma do it.

Hope the stator can keep up!

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[lee]

The air intake setup is essentially the same as a Polaris Ranger

Not sure this qualifies Honda Engineers as dummies.

Any Honda engineer that copies a Polaris design is automatically defined as a dummy.

 

[Vikes79]

Any Honda engineer that copies a Polaris design is automatically defined as a dummy.

While I like to poke fun at Polaris as well, it’s a proven working concept that the freshest, coolest air is at the front of the vehicle.

The entire automotive world does the same for rear engine vehicles.....except for super rare cases.

 

[dswv42]

The air intake setup is essentially the same as a Polaris Ranger ( at least the older ones). I would guess other Utvs are similar.

Cold / fresh air in at the front and a primary filter over the top of the engine. Similar design for the belt cooling intake.

Not sure this qualifies Honda Engineers as dummies.

One look under the bed told me everything I needed to know. Have a heat problem, cover it with plastic.