P1000 Air Intake Design

[Adam490]

One look under the bed told me everything I needed to know. Have a heat problem, cover it with plastic.

View attachment 212436

Have you taken a look at any other UTV? Sounds like a Jeep might be better suited for your needs.

 

[Admin]

 

[Vikes79]

One look under the bed told me everything I needed to know. Have a heat problem, cover it with plastic.

View attachment 212436

And the options while keeping a competitive price point are?

 

[hondabob]

On both of my 3 seat Pioneer 1,000's I removed the plastic cover over the engine. It made it much easier to clean the engine. It may be necessary to run with the cover in some of the mud runs. On my 5 seat its not an option to run without the cover and it is a PITA to remove it for cleaning the engine.

 

[dswv42]

And the options are while keeping a competitive price point are?

Everything starts at the drawing board. Engines make a lot of heat, and proven cooling system designs have been around for a very long time, so why not start there? You have a radiator in the front with a fan, so carefully direct that air through a tunnel and around the hottest parts of the engine.

Lets not forget that these are off-road machines, subject to being used and abused in a wide variety of conditions, including water and especially mud. Everyone knows that water and engines don't mix, so the air intake should be as high as possible, and certainly not low in the front, where it could act as a water scoop. Simply move the bed back a couple of inches, or reduce the reclined front seats a bit, and put the air intake behind the front seats, either in the center, or off to each side. The air filter box could be relocated under the drivers seat, affording very easy access, but it must be absolutely water tight.

And remove all that plastic crap covering the engine, which only serves to trap heat. As for the 1000-3 v/s the 1000-5, simply incorporate the 1000-5 floor into the bed, where it should have been in the first place. The bed may need to be moved back slightly, but it would also help the dump angle, so it's a win-win.

See, with a few carefully chosen design considerations, the cost of manufacturing can actually be reduced, while the machine itself becomes much more suited to it's intended purpose.

 

[Adam490]

Everything starts at the drawing board. Engines make a lot of heat, and proven cooling system designs have been around for a very long time, so why not start there? You have a radiator in the front with a fan, so carefully direct that air through a tunnel and around the hottest parts of the engine.

Lets not forget that these are off-road machines, subject to being used and abused in a wide variety of conditions, including water and especially mud. Everyone knows that water and engines don't mix, so the air intake should be as high as possible, and certainly not low in the front, where it could act as a water scoop. Simply move the bed back a couple of inches, or reduce the reclined front seats a bit, and put the air intake behind the front seats, either in the center, or off to each side. The air filter box could be relocated under the drivers seat, affording very easy access, but it must be absolutely water tight.

And remove all that plastic crap covering the engine, which only serves to trap heat. As for the 1000-3 v/s the 1000-5, simply incorporate the 1000-5 floor into the bed, where it should have been in the first place. The bed may need to be moved back slightly, but it would also help the dump angle, so it's a win-win.

See, with a few carefully chosen design considerations, the cost of manufacturing can actually be reduced, while the machine itself becomes much more suited to it's intended purpose.

Pretty sure it handles it's intended purpose just fine. I think you'll find the Polaris General covers all your bases...

Engine in the rear, further back dump bed, and on the plus side they tend to catch fire for reasons far beyond the "plastic crap" 🙄

 

[dswv42]

Have you taken a look at any other UTV? Sounds like a Jeep might be better suited for your needs.

Indeed I have looked at most of them, and even bought a new Kawasaki Mule Pro FXT last year, but sold it after realizing that I hated the clunky belt drive transmission. Honda is the only one with clutches and a dump bed, so whatever it's faults might be, it's the only game in town. As for a Jeep, they are nice but not well suited for my needs.

 

[dswv42]

Pretty sure it handles it's intended purpose just fine. I think you'll find the Polaris General covers all your bases...

Engine in the rear, further back dump bed, and on the plus side they tend to catch fire for reasons far beyond the "plastic crap" 🙄

Catch fire, like this? As for me owning a Polaris, never going to happen.

 

[Russ989]

Everything starts at the drawing board. Engines make a lot of heat, and proven cooling system designs have been around for a very long time, so why not start there? You have a radiator in the front with a fan, so carefully direct that air through a tunnel and around the hottest parts of the engine.

Lets not forget that these are off-road machines, subject to being used and abused in a wide variety of conditions, including water and especially mud. Everyone knows that water and engines don't mix, so the air intake should be as high as possible, and certainly not low in the front, where it could act as a water scoop. Simply move the bed back a couple of inches, or reduce the reclined front seats a bit, and put the air intake behind the front seats, either in the center, or off to each side. The air filter box could be relocated under the drivers seat, affording very easy access, but it must be absolutely water tight.

And remove all that plastic crap covering the engine, which only serves to trap heat. As for the 1000-3 v/s the 1000-5, simply incorporate the 1000-5 floor into the bed, where it should have been in the first place. The bed may need to be moved back slightly, but it would also help the dump angle, so it's a win-win.

See, with a few carefully chosen design considerations, the cost of manufacturing can actually be reduced, while the machine itself becomes much more suited to it's intended purpose.

Sounds like you should be a Honda engineer since you know so much.

 

[Adam490]

Catch fire, like this? As for me owning a Polaris, never going to happen.

View attachment 212455

Ah yes, one of the two or three Pioneer fire pictures that make the rounds every so often. Pretty sure that one was a 2016 without the muffler guard that was addressed via recall. That, or it was one of the countless wiring jobs I've seen that look like an 18 pack of natty lights wired them up.

 

[dswv42]

Sounds like you should be a Honda engineer since you know so much.

So it begins. The long-time forum members with high post counts descend like a plague of locusts on anyone who dares to say anything bad about their beloved machines. Been there, done that, and frankly I find it quite boring. I've been buying and building custom off-road machines for about 40 years, so I might know a bit more than you realize.

However, I certainly don't know everything, and believe it's never too late to learn something new. You know, like considering ways of improving something, even if it's been tried before?

 

[Vikes79]

Everything starts at the drawing board. Engines make a lot of heat, and proven cooling system designs have been around for a very long time, so why not start there? You have a radiator in the front with a fan, so carefully direct that air through a tunnel and around the hottest parts of the engine.

Lets not forget that these are off-road machines, subject to being used and abused in a wide variety of conditions, including water and especially mud. Everyone knows that water and engines don't mix, so the air intake should be as high as possible, and certainly not low in the front, where it could act as a water scoop. Simply move the bed back a couple of inches, or reduce the reclined front seats a bit, and put the air intake behind the front seats, either in the center, or off to each side. The air filter box could be relocated under the drivers seat, affording very easy access, but it must be absolutely water tight.

And remove all that plastic crap covering the engine, which only serves to trap heat. As for the 1000-3 v/s the 1000-5, simply incorporate the 1000-5 floor into the bed, where it should have been in the first place. The bed may need to be moved back slightly, but it would also help the dump angle, so it's a win-win.

See, with a few carefully chosen design considerations, the cost of manufacturing can actually be reduced, while the machine itself becomes much more suited to it's intended purpose.

Your design approach is correct except for one part....definition of intended purpose.

While you are giving much focus to heat, for most, 75% of the year its a non issue.

It won’t be much longer and there will be many posts about how to increase the heat from these machines.

It’s easy to have a one sided design debate when you don’t have, Sales, Legal, Marketing, Purchasing, Finance, and Manufacturing pushing back at you.

Each dept noted has their own “intended purpose”.

Factor in the various customer bases, environments, etc and you end up with the machine in front of you.

I’d wager a bet that over 85% of the UTVs in the field have never been altered, nor have they ever had water or mud over the tops of their tires. Quite a few never leave the road anymore.

My view of a P1k5 intended purpose is a rig to haul “stuff” and be sporty enough to ride trails with my family some of the time.

Don’t take my comments as saying the current design is perfect or that improvements couldn’t be made......Just that there is more to the story.

 

[Adam490]

So it begins. The long-time forum members with high post counts descend like a plague of locusts on anyone who dares to say anything bad about their beloved machines. Been there, done that, and frankly I find it quite boring. I've been buying and building custom off-road machines for about 40 years, so I might know a bit more than you realize.

However, I certainly don't know everything, and believe it's never too late to learn something new. You know, like considering ways of improving something, even if it's been tried before?

Nah, it's more so the fact that you come across as a bit of a prick. But that may just be your matter of fact posts as you've stated. If you had brought up some new way to tackle the problems that have been addressed *literally* by thousands of posts over the years I think you'd have a better audience. Most of us have zero issue about someone bringing up the downfalls of the machine (and actually most of us welcome it) because it leads to the countless threads and discussions that have led to them being addressed. Just keep in mind most of the guys you're discussing these "issues" with have actually owned and operated said machine in some extremely rough environments for an extended period of time. I applaud you for building custom off-road machines for 40 years. Perhaps you could share some pictures with us of said machines. We all like pictures.

 

[Vikes79]

Nah, it's more so the fact that you come across as a bit of a prick. But that may just be your matter of fact posts as you've stated. If you had brought up some new way to tackle the problems that have been addressed *literally* by thousands of posts over the years I think you'd have a better audience. Most of us have zero issue about someone bringing up the downfalls of the machine (and actually most of us welcome it) because it leads to the countless threads and discussions that have led to them being addressed. Just keep in mind most of the guys you're discussing these "issues" with have actually owned and operated said machine in some extremely rough environments for an extended period of time. I applaud you for building custom off-road machines for 40 years. Perhaps you could share some pictures with us of said machines. We all like pictures.

Agree 100%

 

[Russ989]

Nah, it's more so the fact that you come across as a bit of a prick. But that may just be your matter of fact posts as you've stated. If you had brought up some new way to tackle the problems that have been addressed *literally* by thousands of posts over the years I think you'd have a better audience. Most of us have zero issue about someone bringing up the downfalls of the machine (and actually most of us welcome it) because it leads to the countless threads and discussions that have led to them being addressed. Just keep in mind most of the guys you're discussing these "issues" with have actually owned and operated said machine in some extremely rough environments for an extended period of time. I applaud you for building custom off-road machines for 40 years. Perhaps you could share some pictures with us of said machines. We all like pictures.

Look at you being all diplomatic and stuff.... 😂

 

[Vikes79]

Look at you being all diplomatic and stuff.... 😂

We are all so proud!!

 

[dswv42]

Your design approach is correct except for one part....definition of intended purpose.

While you are giving much focus to heat, for most, 75% of the year its a non issue.

It won’t be much longer and there will be many posts about how to increase the heat from these machines.

It’s easy to have a one sided design debate when you don’t have, Sales, Legal, Marketing, Purchasing, Finance, and Manufacturing pushing back at you.

Each dept noted has their own “intended purpose”.

Factor in the various customer bases, environments, etc and you end up with the machine in front of you.

I’d wager a bet that over 85% of the UTVs in the field have never been altered, nor have they ever had water or mud over the tops of their tires. Quite a few never leave the road anymore.

My view of a P1k5 intended purpose is a rig to haul “stuff” and be sporty enough to ride trails with my family some of the time.

Don’t take my comments as saying the current design is perfect or that improvements couldn’t be made......Just that there is more to the story.

Being ex-corporate, I know exactly what you're talking about. My chosen field was not in manufacturing, but rather than consulting with people who actually knew what they are doing, the upper ranks often did their own thing. Otherwise, I agree that the definition of "intended purpose" is open to interpretation.

In this case, I admit that my focus is very narrow, mostly because my options are limited to the Honda, and before I sink so much money into it, I simply want to be reasonably certain that I can make the machine into something suited to "me".

 

[Russ989]

So it begins. The long-time forum members with high post counts descend like a plague of locusts on anyone who dares to say anything bad about their beloved machines. Been there, done that, and frankly I find it quite boring. I've been buying and building custom off-road machines for about 40 years, so I might know a bit more than you realize.

However, I certainly don't know everything, and believe it's never too late to learn something new. You know, like considering ways of improving something, even if it's been tried before?

If I were raining down on you like a plague of locusts you’d know it sunshine. 😉 I get tired of all of you guys that don’t even own a 1000 complaining about how Honda could have done better. Buy one and then you can complain or contribute to fixing the few minor issues it has. There’s not a better sport utility machine out there.

 

[dswv42]

Nah, it's more so the fact that you come across as a bit of a prick. But that may just be your matter of fact posts as you've stated. If you had brought up some new way to tackle the problems that have been addressed *literally* by thousands of posts over the years I think you'd have a better audience. Most of us have zero issue about someone bringing up the downfalls of the machine (and actually most of us welcome it) because it leads to the countless threads and discussions that have led to them being addressed. Just keep in mind most of the guys you're discussing these "issues" with have actually owned and operated said machine in some extremely rough environments for an extended period of time. I applaud you for building custom off-road machines for 40 years. Perhaps you could share some pictures with us of said machines. We all like pictures.

I've never been one to beat around the bush about things, and like getting straight to the point. Take this thread for example, I had hoped to discuss the air intake design and new ways of improving it, but that train has went flying off the rails, as happens all too often on forums.

To understand the capabilities of a machine, I first look to those who have used, abused, and modified them, which is what brought me here. You see, I'm not like many other people who come here with broken machines or looking for advice about what they should buy. Nope, I've spent a great deal of time doing research, watching videos, etc... I've made my choice, now it's time to get to busy.

 

[Russ989]

Being ex-corporate, I know exactly what you're talking about. My chosen field was not in manufacturing, but rather than consulting with people who actually knew what they are doing, the upper ranks often did their own thing. Otherwise, I agree that the definition of "intended purpose" is open to interpretation.

In this case, I admit that my focus is very narrow, mostly because my options are limited to the Honda, and before I sink so much money into it, I simply want to be reasonably certain that I can make the machine into something suited to "me".

I can appreciate your admission of a narrow vision.

 

[dswv42]

If I were raining down on you like a plague of locusts you’d know it sunshine. 😉 I get tired of all of you guys that don’t even own a 1000 complaining about how Honda could have done better. Buy one and then you can complain or contribute to fixing the few minor issues it has. There’s not a better sport utility machine out there.

Give it time, and you might be pleasantly surprised. I'd own one right now, except for the fact that the 2021 models are not available yet, at least nowhere close to where I live. When the time comes, I plan to strip my new Honda Pioneer 1000 down to it's bare bones, so perhaps that will give you some idea of what my intentions are. It would make a great winter project too, if Honda gets off their ass and makes them available soon.

And before anyone says "put your money where your mouth is", when I say I'm going to do something, I do it.