P1000 Catastrophic failure

[joeymt33]

Did a pressure test on mine yesterday. It would hold pressure as long as I wanted it too.

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Ooo! Good idea, how'd you do it?


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[Admin]

 

[Hondasxs]

Chocked it down. Found a pice of rubber sheet. Use that and placed over the intake tube under the hood. I was actually surprised how long it held.

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[Hondasxs]

Because... @CumminsPusher has me exploring snorkel ideas this week's.

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[joeymt33]

Chocked it down. Found a pice of rubber sheet. Use that and placed over the intake tube under the hood. I was actually surprised how long it held.

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Oh ok, so you killed the motor by choking it and then see how long it held the vacuum?


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[Hondasxs]

Yep.

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[KevinSC]

Ok this is the what did me in

Honda might have a bunch of lawsuits coming, because I think I could take that much water in riding in the rain. They need to really consider rethinking the intake on these things. I hope all works out for you and please let us know what they say causes that much water to ruin the motor and transmission. There had to be something else somewhere else that this came in.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Honda might have a bunch of lawsuits coming, because I think I could take that much water in riding in the rain. They need to really consider rethinking the intake on these things. I hope all works out for you and please let us know what they say causes that much water to ruin the motor and transmission. There had to be something else somewhere else that this came in.

Ok all hoses and connections tight. No pressure test but it was at every point. Water was in the throttle body air box lower tube and you tell it passed through the front filter. It came all the way through no doubt and a lot.

 

[ghost]

Cumminspusher - buy a lotto ticket. The universe is due to re-balance.

 

[Hondasxs]

I agree... I will go buy one on your behalf tomorrow.

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[CumminsPusher]

Cumminspusher - buy a lotto ticket. The universe is due to re-balance.

Thanks @ghost i did yesterday in hopes but had I won I'd already be on road trip to ride with ya'll

 

[CumminsPusher]

I agree... I will go buy one on your behalf tomorrow.

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So I talked to the manager and Honda had told him people were having issues with the 700 air filter clogging up too fast so Honda went back to the drawing board on the 1000. One guy in my dealer had dropped a 700 motor at 200 miles because of clogged filter. I didn't have those issues but apparently...anyway that was the issue so they designed a system specific to the 1000 to add more life. Mine is only 1 of 3 so far reported with this issue supposedly however Honda sounds to be taking it seriously and opened a case on it.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Ok all hoses and connections tight. No pressure test but it was at every point. Water was in the throttle body air box lower tube and you tell it passed through the front filter. It came all the way through no doubt and a lot.

Didn't you say there was mud in the engine/transmission or did I misunderstand?

If it came through the air system, I would have expected the particulates to have been stopped by the filter media. Water I can see but I am really suspicious that enough particulates could make it through the pre-filter, and the very nice automotive grade plus actual air filter media that looks to have an additional pre-screen on top of the dirty side of the filter. I used to be a manufacturing engineer making air filters (for Toyota, Chrysler, Mitsubishi and others) and that Honda filter is a very nice pleated filter media that will stop 99% of particulate matter down to a ridiculously small size. There shouldn't be enough through that filter to see, much less make mud. Especially if it is in both the cylinders AND the transmission.

That sounds like a warranty issue and I would really expect a lot of explanation as to how that happened.

 

[KevinSC]

Didn't you say there was mud in the engine/transmission or did I misunderstand?

If it came through the air system, I would have expected the particulates to have been stopped by the filter media. Water I can see but I am really suspicious that enough particulates could make it through the pre-filter, and the very nice automotive grade plus actual air filter media that looks to have an additional pre-screen on top of the dirty side of the filter. I used to be a manufacturing engineer making air filters (for Toyota, Chrysler, Mitsubishi and others) and that Honda filter is a very nice pleated filter media that will stop 99% of particulate matter down to a ridiculously small size. There shouldn't be enough through that filter to see, much less make mud. Especially if it is in both the cylinders AND the transmission.

That sounds like a warranty issue and I would really expect a lot of explanation as to how that happened.

Like I said, if mud made it there I would expect Honda to have quite a few law suits coming.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Didn't you say there was mud in the engine/transmission or did I misunderstand?

If it came through the air system, I would have expected the particulates to have been stopped by the filter media. Water I can see but I am really suspicious that enough particulates could make it through the pre-filter, and the very nice automotive grade plus actual air filter media that looks to have an additional pre-screen on top of the dirty side of the filter. I used to be a manufacturing engineer making air filters (for Toyota, Chrysler, Mitsubishi and others) and that Honda filter is a very nice pleated filter media that will stop 99% of particulate matter down to a ridiculously small size. There shouldn't be enough through that filter to see, much less make mud. Especially if it is in both the cylinders AND the transmission.

That sounds like a warranty issue and I would really expect a lot of explanation as to how that happened.

Really that's what I thought as well so I had them show me everything now that doesn't mean it didn't get on there later but there was dirt. When I checked filters I didn't see water but there was in the crank case. I think it stopped soon enough to not go through the transmission or at least that's what it looked like to me but they say it's probably out too.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I just got done talking to another mechanic still trying to figure this out. He said early Polaris and CanAm ran intake to the front and had the same problems especially on Rangers. That is why frog skin was ran so much. Said the Honda at least ran it up very high and designed it to screen and drain however he felt if it were at a good clip in the rain it may still some in but probably not enough to hurt. I showed him video of the puddle and he thought that at least some of that would hit motor but nothing like what this would have taken. He thought it would have to be deeper to do this but I've got a speaker port above the floor on driver side and plug was out so had the water been above an inch deep on the floor board it would have ruined my amp and sub so we started looking at the air piping. He mentioned how sharply it curves down and back up and thought it may be tough to get that kind water up the pipeline. We were looking at it and I asked what if it takes on a little water here and there till it fills up and sucks up large amount into the intake that may explain how so much came in and sucked past the filter he agreed that may just be possible. Water could collect there over days even weeks because it would be slow to evaporate. That's all I've got

 

[Buckshotaz]

Really that's what I thought as well so I had them show me everything now that doesn't mean it didn't get on there later but there was dirt. When I checked filters I didn't see water but there was in the crank case. I think it stopped soon enough to not go through the transmission or at least that's what it looked like to me but they say it's probably out too.

I'm sorry and I hope everything works out for you

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I just got done talking to another mechanic still trying to figure this out. He said early Polaris and CanAm ran intake to the front and had the same problems especially on Rangers. That is why frog skin was ran so much. Said the Honda at least ran it up very high and designed it to screen and drain however he felt if it were at a good clip in the rain it may still some in but probably not enough to hurt. I showed him video of the puddle and he thought that at least some of that would hit motor but nothing like what this would have taken. He thought it would have to be deeper to do this but I've got a speaker port above the floor on driver side and plug was out so had the water been above an inch deep on the floor board it would have ruined my amp and sub so we started looking at the air piping. He mentioned how sharply it curves down and back up and thought it may be tough to get that kind water up the pipeline. We were looking at it and I asked what if it takes on a little water here and there till it fills up and sucks up large amount into the intake that may explain how so much came in and sucked past the filter he agreed that may just be possible. Water could collect there over days even weeks because it would be slow to evaporate. That's all I've got

So they think just that splash of water at the very front was what caused that? Surely not.

I have watched lots of videos of UTVs splashing similarly, often multiple times and they also have their air intakes in the front under the "hood". One in particular I am thinking about, he was jumping into it at a much higher speed repeatedly and didn't suffer any ill effects.

Now granted, I don't know if this video was shot at the beginning of his series on the Wolverine or the end of his series but he still went into it several times without hydro locking and looking at his videos he did quite a bit of driving around. I'll post on his Youtube channel and ask if the machine suffered any ill effects from that.

How long did you go before you locked up?

 

[CumminsPusher]

That looks about the same depth maybe a little longer minus the jump into it about same speed. It locked up just barely outside of it I actually let off to go around a log got back on and realized there was no power

 

[Crow_Hunter]

That looks about the same depth maybe a little longer minus the jump into it about same speed. It locked up just barely outside of it I actually let off to go around a log got back on and realized there was no power

Based on my research the Wolverine and the Honda have similar air intake locations. The Wolverine is at the very back of the hood while the Honda is towards the front but still both under the hood protection.

If it did that to the Honda, I would have thought it would have locked the Wolverine too. With there being mud and water, I still think there is something else going on.

Unless, and this is a possibility, the water splashes on the hood, sheets down the hood to the bottom, and gets trapped in the joint at the front of the hood and since you were hard in the throttle, it sucked it under the hood. Does the lower part of the "hood" have a gasket on it to force air to come from the top?

In my current job, I work a lot with varying air pressures and water. Put a pressure differential on it and water will do some strange things.

Still doesn't explain how mud would get past all those filters designed to stop micron sized particles.

 

[CumminsPusher]

He said the design of the Honda it would force it in. No gasket at all. And honestly it you look at the front air box it's hard to believe to much can go down without a fight. Mud I absolutely understand shouldn't get into the motor but they say it happens. I saw the filter it didn't have a prefilter it was just paper wafer with screen mesh after it but mesh was large. Very heavy duty though