P1000 Catastrophic failure

[tundraman]

It'll work out

This one is all set up to play in the water.

 

[Admin]

 

[CumminsPusher]

Correct. I like the machine too

 

[Digger]

Nowhere to go but up from here. Just keep plugging man.
I'm sorry for all your troubles.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Thank you. And I'm sorry for complaining I know everyone has issues from time to time. It was just a lot and people around me don't always get it. There's people with way bigger events then this I really didn't mean to be a puss just needed to vent and figure it out. Not use to having problems with a Honda this rig has become part of my family and we all love it! I know it'll be fine.

 

[Jbird]

Thank you. And I'm sorry for complaining I know everyone has issues from time to time. It was just a lot and people around me don't always get it. There's people with way bigger events then this I really didn't mean to be a puss just needed to vent and figure it out. Not use to having problems with a Honda this rig has become part of my family and we all love it! I know it'll be fine.

Being brand new to the P1K-5, I am worried that you had this occur after a run through a medium water hazard that most would feel confident they could go through without incident. I am anxious to know what you determine the point of entry for the water and mud to be. Loose carb boot, poorly designed venting, etc.
I hate that you are having to go through these problems but from past experience it seems like when it rains it pours.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Working on it. However I would suggest to anyone planning to be around water to snorkel this thing. I truly love this machine and will protect it how I feel fit from this point on. Can't wait to get it back anyone else with thier machine in the shop hope things work out and I hope everyone has an awesome weekend.

 

[MontanaBighorn]

I am worried that you had this occur after a run through a medium water hazard that most would feel confident they could go through without incident.

+1!

 

[ghost]

This rectangular extension is the low point in the factory snorkel.
Looks like the pipe was designed for a drain but they forgot to add it.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm pretty sure on my theory on water through the intake here. I believe small amounts of water come into the intake every puddle possibly small amounts. I'm not saying at all in deep water but even in shallow water. I'm sure water sits in that lower section until it fills to the point no air goes by and whoosh into motor. Especially at high r's a fuel injected 1000cc is going to create massive amounts of suction. When it fills up to the point air can't get by it becomes a straw in a cup. It's got no place to go! There is no drain anywhere. It's getting forced into the air box. If you look at the lower section of pipe probably almost 3 1/2 ft my guess from my experience is probably close to three quarts. I'm figuring Your right @ghost about that spot it would be a great place for us to install a pepcock. I've been doing some research and I'm not the only one here. I've got a feeling lots of people may have water in that lower section just waiting. There is absolutely no way that I was riding in a way that shouldn't be done in an off road sxs. I had three quarts of water in my crankcase! Watch the video there is no way the Pioneer inhaled that in this puddle no way! I've been riding for years on every type of vehicle I've never seen something not take that! My daughter on her crf110 rides that puddle. I've been through the same one 100s of times literally with never a grunt even from the Polaris's or Can-Ams. Everyone here knows my admiration for Honda please understand I'm not slamming this rig because I'll never do so it's been my favorite without question but there is a serious problem here

 

[KevinSC]

I'm pretty sure on my theory on water through the intake here. I believe small amounts of water come into the intake every puddle possibly small amounts. I'm not saying at all in deep water but even in shallow water. I'm sure water sits in that lower section until it fills to the point no air goes by and whoosh into motor. Especially at high r's a fuel injected 1000cc is going to create massive amounts of suction. When it fills up to the point air can't get by it becomes a straw in a cup. It's got no place to go! There is no drain anywhere. It's getting forced into the air box. If you look at the lower section of pipe probably almost 3 1/2 ft my guess from my experience is probably close to three quarts. I'm figuring Your right @ghost about that spot it would be a great place for us to install a pepcock. I've been doing some research and I'm not the only one here. I've got a feeling lots of people may have water in that lower section just waiting. There is absolutely no way that I was riding in a way that shouldn't be done in an off road sxs. I had three quarts of water in my crankcase! Watch the video there is no way the Pioneer inhaled that in this puddle no way! I've been riding for years on every type of vehicle I've never seen something not take that! My daughter on her crf110 rides that puddle. I've been through the same one 100s of times literally with never a grunt even from the Polaris's or Can-Ams. Everyone here knows my admiration for Honda please understand I'm not slamming this rig because I'll never do so it's been my favorite without question but there is a serious problem here

I'm sorry for your loss buddy, but like I have said before I fear this is going to get Honda in trouble as this happens more and more. These machines should be able to go through that puddle no problem. Maybe Honda will step up and fix your machine as this is definitely a manufactured defect. Heck my kids 50cc atv could have went through that and would have still been ticking. Now I'm not bashing Honda as I love my machine, I just don't see how they could say that little water could have caused that much damage.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm sorry for your loss buddy, but like I have said before I fear this is going to get Honda in trouble as this happens more and more. These machines should be able to go through that puddle no problem. Maybe Honda will step up and fix your machine as this is definitely a manufactured defect. Heck my kids 50cc atv could have went through that and would have still been ticking. Now I'm not bashing Honda as I love my machine, I just don't see how they could say that little water could have caused that much damage.

Like I said it's happening over time. Once in there that water has no where to go. I'm sure if there's a little in there no big deal and over time a little would evaporate from the suction of the motor however each puddle will add to it. Even over several days. I don't think very slow crossings matter much but anything with any speed does. People in low water areas have very little to worry about but that's not where I'm at this time a year. I'll put money on it even heavy rain on pavement eventually may be a problem.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Here is a picture of the system. That lower section is the one I'm talking about. This is the same one that the Honda tech and I found.

 

[KevinSC]

View attachment 16334

View attachment 16333

Thanks

 

[Plumber32]

View attachment 16334

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Here is a picture of the system. That lower section is the one I'm talking about. This is the same one that the Honda tech and I found.

In my world (plumbing ) that's pretty much a trap. You can't run a vent like that. It collects condensation and blocks off the free flowing air. I would think a snorkel thru the hood would be worse, anytime you splash water over it it's going to pull a drop here and there . I guess @joeymt33 could inspect his intake and tell us.

 

[sthomp54]

Like I said it's happening over time. Once in there that water has no where to go. I'm sure if there's a little in there no big deal and over time a little would evaporate from the suction of the motor however each puddle will add to it. Even over several days. I don't think very slow crossings matter much but anything with any speed does. People in low water areas have very little to worry about but that's not where I'm at this time a year. I'll put money on it even heavy rain on pavement eventually may be a problem.

You are probably right , but how does the mud get in there?

 

[CumminsPusher]

My main issue here is the cost of what's going on. It's such a huge amount of water that it's not just hydrolocking where you pull plugs out but breaks the crank and fills the entire system with water and dirt and not just the motor it's the transmission as they are married units. Just my case half is 2000. Labor alone for the motor tear down is 2500. Possibly a very long wait for parts. 1 bearing could be on back order for??? There are no long or short blocks available. Every seal and bearing very possibly everything inside that case has to be replaced and under insurance.

 

[CumminsPusher]

In my world (plumbing ) that's pretty much a trap. You can't run a vent like that. It collects condensation and blocks off the free flowing air. I would think a snorkel thru the hood would be worse, anytime you splash water over it it's going to pull a drop here and there . I guess @joeymt33 could inspect his intake and tell us.

I think he runs it backwards sometimes by the pics. However his wont pick up near as much as the underside of the hood. I think it's being forced in off the radiator off of the tires mainly

 

[Plumber32]

I think he runs it backwards sometimes by the pics. However his wont pick up near as much as the underside of the hood. I think it's being forced in off the radiator off of the tires mainly

When a wave comes over and it's sucking air it would pull it right in theoreticallyspeaking

 

[Plumber32]

But what I don't understand is with the plastic cover over the intake how anything makes it in. Last weekend we rode thru a ton of rain, mud, I hit alot of puddles fast enough to spray me in the face. Spent hours getting the machine half clean pulled the hood and couldn't believe how clean it was just a little dust.

 

[CumminsPusher]

You are probably right , but how does the mud get in there?

The dealer said "mud" but it was more like very large particals of dirt. I'm sure they were forced through the filter and possibly the crankcase tube some. Even k&n hates being wet. Water especially at that rate and amount will forcefully shove that through. Paper filters are known for that problem. Remember three quarts in a very split second. It's hauling ass. There was fairly clear oil in the transmission and they are shared. That water DID NOT build up in the motor and seize the bearing as the dealer originally suggested it couldn't have! Very little circulated through the pump to the transmission.