P1000 Clutch Question

[Jbird]

For those of us considering the purchase of a P1000 it would be nice to know:
1). Has anyone actually talked with the people in the know at Honda Corporate?
2) Do they acknowledge there is actually a problem with some units?
3). Have they identified the cause?
4). What are they doing to eliminate the problem in the future.
5). Have these changes been implemented and when?

Without these answers are you comfortable spending $15000-$20000.

 

[Admin]

 

[JACKAL]

For those of us considering the purchase of a P1000 it would be nice to know:
1). Has anyone actually talked with the people in the know at Honda Corporate?
2) Do they acknowledge there is actually a problem with some units?
3). Have they identified the cause?
4). What are they doing to eliminate the problem in the future.
5). Have these changes been implemented and when?

Without these answers are you comfortable spending $15000-$20000.

1). Has anyone actually talked with the people in the know at Honda Corporate - Yes a handful have spoken with them.
2) Do they acknowledge there is actually a problem with some units - They are aware of issues with some units but see Q#3
3). Have they identified the cause? - Some people are using the machines in far different manners than anticipated.
4). What are they doing to eliminate the problem in the future. - What people do with the machine, how it is maintained, the oil choices used, tire and lift choices used, and the conscious decision to mud bog a machine nearly every time it is taken out or drive it at 2 mph as the clutch barely engages is beyond the control of Honda.
5). Have these changes been implemented and when? - Only a very small number of units (approx. 40 nationwide ) Out of thousands sold have had an issue, not sure if administering an IQ test to see if people are smart enough to own a P1K or a simpler to operate P500 would be effective.

All the above being said, my P1K was one that had an issue. It was fixed by Honda no hassles and it runs perfect now. I have a good idea what happened to mine and it certainly is not an inherent design flaw with the machine or the percentage of clutch problems would be way higher. It is possible to break anything mechanical and it is impossible to develop a product that hold up when used or maintained outside of what the manufacturer has intended. People are using their P1K's in ways that the designers never intended (or anticipated anyway), and despite several modifications people have made to their machines that have had issues, Honda has repaired all of them in good faith without questioning anyone excessively. They too are still evaluating on how to make the product better, this is a part of the process especially for a first year machine.

Would I buy one again, absolutely. It is a blast to drive, very good ride for its design, very quiet on the trail unlike many others. Hope this helps you understand what is going on.

 

[Jbird]

1). Has anyone actually talked with the people in the know at Honda Corporate - Yes a handful have spoken with them.
2) Do they acknowledge there is actually a problem with some units - They are aware of issues with some units but see Q#3
3). Have they identified the cause? - Some people are using the machines in far different manners than anticipated.
4). What are they doing to eliminate the problem in the future. - What people do with the machine, how it is maintained, the oil choices used, tire and lift choices used, and the conscious decision to mud bog a machine nearly every time it is taken out or drive it at 2 mph as the clutch barely engages is beyond the control of Honda.
5). Have these changes been implemented and when? - Only a very small number of units (approx. 40 nationwide ) Out of thousands sold have had an issue, not sure if administering an IQ test to see if people are smart enough to own a P1K or a simpler to operate P500 would be effective.

All the above being said, my P1K was one that had an issue. It was fixed by Honda no hassles and it runs perfect now. I have a good idea what happened to mine and it certainly is not an inherent design flaw with the machine or the percentage of clutch problems would be way higher. It is possible to break anything mechanical and it is impossible to develop a product that hold up when used or maintained outside of what the manufacturer has intended. People are using their P1K's in ways that the designers never intended (or anticipated anyway), and despite several modifications people have made to their machines that have had issues, Honda has repaired all of them in good faith without questioning anyone excessively. They too are still evaluating on how to make the product better, this is a part of the process especially for a first year machine.

Would I buy one again, absolutely. It is a blast to drive, very good ride for its design, very quiet on the trail unlike many others. Hope this helps you understand what is going on.

Good info. Mine will be used riding cabin to cabin on dirt trails where we live, some light trail riding, and pulling logs out of the woods and carting fire wood. No mud bogging, snorkels, lifts, 30 inch tires for me. We are retired and are way past flogging equipment we purchase with our hard earned dollars. Our friends that have a cabin across the road bought a P1000-3 last month but they just use theirs like we would. No problems so far. Actually I was planning on getting the P-500 until my wife rode in her girlfriends P1000-3 with power steering. As you say, I hope we aren't too stupid to own one. Lol.

 

[500]

1). Has anyone actually talked with the people in the know at Honda Corporate - Yes a handful have spoken with them.
2) Do they acknowledge there is actually a problem with some units - They are aware of issues with some units but see Q#3
3). Have they identified the cause? - Some people are using the machines in far different manners than anticipated.
4). What are they doing to eliminate the problem in the future. - What people do with the machine, how it is maintained, the oil choices used, tire and lift choices used, and the conscious decision to mud bog a machine nearly every time it is taken out or drive it at 2 mph as the clutch barely engages is beyond the control of Honda.
5). Have these changes been implemented and when? - Only a very small number of units (approx. 40 nationwide ) Out of thousands sold have had an issue, not sure if administering an IQ test to see if people are smart enough to own a P1K or a simpler to operate P500 would be effective.

All the above being said, my P1K was one that had an issue. It was fixed by Honda no hassles and it runs perfect now. I have a good idea what happened to mine and it certainly is not an inherent design flaw with the machine or the percentage of clutch problems would be way higher. It is possible to break anything mechanical and it is impossible to develop a product that hold up when used or maintained outside of what the manufacturer has intended. People are using their P1K's in ways that the designers never intended (or anticipated anyway), and despite several modifications people have made to their machines that have had issues, Honda has repaired all of them in good faith without questioning anyone excessively. They too are still evaluating on how to make the product better, this is a part of the process especially for a first year machine.

Would I buy one again, absolutely. It is a blast to drive, very good ride for its design, very quiet on the trail unlike many others. Hope this helps you understand what is going on.

I am about to pull the trigger on a 1000.
What specifically are you referring to when saying people are using them outside their intended use?
Curious because in 2016 every mfg. knows how customers use these things.
Are you saying Honda built a 1000cc machine to be babied?
I would like honest input before dropping 17K.
I drove Joeys' and cannot see how these clutches failing are not a fluke part, etc.
People say don't buy Polaris due to failures, but people hammer the hell out of them. I hope you are not insinuating Honda built a 17K machine that cannot be hammered on?
I am buying very, very soon. Left the dealership today.

 

[Bobman13]

So I have 2300 miles on my P1K3 and have played in the mud/snow/sand dunes/and all manners of trail riding even pulling a trailer with my 03 Rancher behind for well over 200 miles round trip to do some recovery work that the Pioneer could not physically go due to size (hence the Rancher) and I have had 0 issues with clutching to date I love this machine and would certainly buy it 10 times over again. One thing I do religiously is use low range when needed and keep a consistent amount of power to avoid any clutching inconsistencies. Not that that I'm a perfect driver and I'm certantly not perfect but regular Mtx and care go a long way. I bought the Honda for the reliability not just because I'm a Honda guy but I don't like belts and Honda has been known for reliability. My dad has a RZR 900 trail and it's a great machine but I gone everywhere he goes and then some my machine is built for work/play his is just play there are thing I like about the RZR but my P1k is still my choice.

 

[500]

So I have 2300 miles on my P1K3 and have played in the mud/snow/sand dunes/and all manners of trail riding even pulling a trailer with my 03 Rancher behind for well over 200 miles round trip to do some recovery work that the Pioneer could not physically go due to size (hence the Rancher) and I have had 0 issues with clutching to date I love this machine and would certainly buy it 10 times over again. One thing I do religiously is use low range when needed and keep a consistent amount of power to avoid any clutching inconsistencies. Not that that I'm a perfect driver and I'm certantly not perfect but regular Mtx and care go a long way. I bought the Honda for the reliability not just because I'm a Honda guy but I don't like belts and Honda has been known for reliability. My dad has a RZR 900 trail and it's a great machine but I gone everywhere he goes and then some my machine is built for work/play his is just play there are thing I like about the RZR but my P1k is still my choice.

This touches on my previous question.
Should a 17K machine have to be in low religiously to avoid a clutch burn out?
I assumed this unit was overbuilt knowing people would add 30's, extra gear, accessories, etc.
I would think sitting OEM it would take full throttle hammering through trails without failure.
I don't drive like that, but every time I get over the clutch issue, I see another issue pop up...
Someone chime in and push me over the edge to drop this cash.

 

[Bobman13]

I'm not easy on my machine I have hammered it hard in the sand and full out on trails pegging of the rev limiter multiple times so ride it like you want, low range is used for pulling and slow stuff, come down to Utah and I'll take you out and show how it runs and rides I'm not easy on my machine I bought it to have fun I would not hesitate to drop the cash down again. The RZRs and the Mavriks/commanders I play with in the dunes have all broken belt and I've towed them all back at least once. So take it for what you will I bought a first year machine and no the risks so I got the Waranty for that reason, my Honda has a few quality issues such as bolts loose/stripped and accessories that are excessively expensive but I hope the aftermarket catches up. That being said I'm happy to have my P1k

 

[Stauvo]

I will definitely buy another one! If I could afford it I would add a P1-3 to sit next to the P1-5.

 

[JACKAL]

I am about to pull the trigger on a 1000.
What specifically are you referring to when saying people are using them outside their intended use?
Curious because in 2016 every mfg. knows how customers use these things.
Are you saying Honda built a 1000cc machine to be babied?
I would like honest input before dropping 17K.
I drove Joeys' and cannot see how these clutches failing are not a fluke part, etc.
People say don't buy Polaris due to failures, but people hammer the hell out of them. I hope you are not insinuating Honda built a 17K machine that cannot be hammered on?
I am buying very, very soon. Left the dealership today.

What specifically are you referring to when saying people are using them outside their intended use? Did Honda equip the machines with 30 inch tires and lift kits, no they did not. The demographic target of the P1K was landowners likely 40+ in age and it was not expected people would go right out lift them put on tires 5-6" lager than it was designed for, add snorkels and turn them into mud bogging submarines. As much as some would like their P1K to have the features and performance of a XP1000 Highlifter Edition it simply was not designed for that. Not saying everyone with issues is doing that but another concern is some of the different full synthetic oils being used that have a high molybdenum content. That moly is a death sentence for a wet clutch, they just as well pour slick 50 in the crank case.

 

[joeymt33]

This touches on my previous question.
Should a 17K machine have to be in low religiously to avoid a clutch burn out?
I assumed this unit was overbuilt knowing people would add 30's, extra gear, accessories, etc.
I would think sitting OEM it would take full throttle hammering through trails without failure.
I don't drive like that, but every time I get over the clutch issue, I see another issue pop up...
Someone chime in and push me over the edge to drop this cash.

You know after that hill we pulled the other day, those clutches are rock solid. That was a rough climb and I was loaded with tools, cooler, chainsaw, spare tire, oil and gas, etc.

Also, how about that winch?! That was a big stump we pulled.

I tried to get you to romp on it a little but you never put the pedal to the floor to feel that machine at it fullest potential.

Maybe we can ride again before you purchase. We are supposed to ride this coming Friday or Saturday.

My only complaint is that the low range should be a little lower. Even with that said, it will still go nicely in the mountains with oversized tires.

 

[Jediwrathchild]

We love our P1K-5! Really hammered on it over the weekend. Completed no less than 15 extractions by winch or strap. Had a minor scare when I finally got sunk, low oil P light came on and the trans disengaged. This was while winching and I think was related to a low voltage situation. Ran it through its paces today without a hiccup. Was on the fence between the Pioneer and the General. And really could still go either way, the General is awesome! My wife really wanted the extra seats, so pioneer it is. Loaded down I can still keep up with most anything out there. Limiting factor is suspension. Once Fox or Walker Evans comes out with a set it will be THE machine to have up here in AK. Follow operating and servicing guidelines and you'll be stylin.

 

[Stauvo]

We love our P1K-5! Really hammered on it over the weekend. Completed no less than 15 extractions by winch or strap. Had a minor scare when I finally got sunk, low oil P light came on and the trans disengaged. This was while winching and I think was related to a low voltage situation. Ran it through its paces today without a hiccup. Was on the fence between the Pioneer and the General. And really could still go either way, the General is awesome! My wife really wanted the extra seats, so pioneer it is. Loaded down I can still keep up with most anything out there. Limiting factor is suspension. Once Fox or Walker Evans comes out with a set it will be THE machine to have up here in AK. Follow operating and servicing guidelines and you'll be stylin.

I agree with the shocks lacking. My 2 kids and I were cruising on a smooth ditch trail yesterday and caught a shallow bowl dip about 4' across and maybe 5" deep and my right front shock bottomed out and we were only going 20 mph.

 

[PioneerPete]

For those of us considering the purchase of a P1000 it would be nice to know:
1). Has anyone actually talked with the people in the know at Honda Corporate?
2) Do they acknowledge there is actually a problem with some units?
3). Have they identified the cause?
4). What are they doing to eliminate the problem in the future.
5). Have these changes been implemented and when?

Without these answers are you comfortable spending $15000-$20000.

as far as I can tell they are just replacing clutches under warranty, and making no public statements. so anything you hear is just an opinion, and everyone has an opinion... here's mine:
it is likely that there are multiple causes of clutch failures. could be assembly issues, could be wrong oil type, could be operator error, on and on and on.
I suspect that they are working on ways to reduce the number of failures, but there again, no public statement, so who knows.
If I had to have a SxS right now, I'd buy it again... it's still better than the alternatives. but if I didn't have to have one right now, I'd probably wait and see what's coming out in 2017... its not that far away.
again, just my opinion, but that's about all your going to get until Honda starts opening up and discussing the failures.

 

[sharp]

as far as I can tell they are just replacing clutches under warranty, and making no public statements. so anything you hear is just an opinion, and everyone has an opinion... here's mine:
it is likely that there are multiple causes of clutch failures. could be assembly issues, could be wrong oil type, could be operator error, on and on and on.
I suspect that they are working on ways to reduce the number of failures, but there again, no public statement, so who knows.
If I had to have a SxS right now, I'd buy it again... it's still better than the alternatives. but if I didn't have to have one right now, I'd probably wait and see what's coming out in 2017... its not that far away.
again, just my opinion, but that's about all your going to get until Honda starts opening up and discussing the failures.

In my opinion honda hasn't made a public statement about clutch issues because there in not enough clutches that have gone out. It seems like it has been a bunch if you read this forum because bad news travels fast and filters down to the forum. Just think of the thousands that have been sold that are just fine. The odds are defiantly in your favor to get one with no issues!

 

[walexa07]

I am about to pull the trigger on a 1000.
What specifically are you referring to when saying people are using them outside their intended use?
Curious because in 2016 every mfg. knows how customers use these things.
Are you saying Honda built a 1000cc machine to be babied?
I would like honest input before dropping 17K.
I drove Joeys' and cannot see how these clutches failing are not a fluke part, etc.
People say don't buy Polaris due to failures, but people hammer the hell out of them. I hope you are not insinuating Honda built a 17K machine that cannot be hammered on?
I am buying very, very soon. Left the dealership today.

I agree with you.........Honda may have an intended use, but they also have to be smart enough to build something tough enough to endure what people will inevitably put them through. I don't care to take up for Honda in any manner, shape, or form regarding the "few" clutch problems. First year hiccups / faulty run of parts is all this is. I run the crap out of mine (granted I only have 300+ miles so far); I've gotten it in a bind several times, starting off on hillsides that I know is hard on the clutch, I almost always run in high even when going slow, etc. etc., and no clutch problems. It's a nice machine and I'm just waiting for the aftermarket to grow so I can get some better shocks and other accessories on it. The P1K is the machine that best fit my family's needs and I have no fear or regrets. I would buy it again.

Waylan

 

[500]

I agree with you.........Honda may have an intended use, but they also have to be smart enough to build something tough enough to endure what people will inevitably put them through. I don't care to take up for Honda in any manner, shape, or form regarding the "few" clutch problems. First year hiccups / faulty run of parts is all this is. I run the crap out of mine (granted I only have 300+ miles so far); I've gotten it in a bind several times, starting off on hillsides that I know is hard on the clutch, I almost always run in high even when going slow, etc. etc., and no clutch problems. It's a nice machine and I'm just waiting for the aftermarket to grow so I can get some better shocks and other accessories on it. The P1K is the machine that best fit my family's needs and I have no fear or regrets. I would buy it again.

Waylan

Appreciate the reply.
You get my point - and Honda is not advertising this as a 40+ yr old farm man's ride either.
I'm waiting on a couple quotes from my dealer, and the rest will be history.
The only question is 700 or 1000...
I am probably putting too much thought into the width on the 1000 keeping me out of the trails I currently ride with my 61" Wolverine and 60" wide Ranger and also the lack of a parking brake. It's funny no one seems to want to do both. It's either Park in trans or parking brake and no park. Money margins have a funny way of making decisions for people.
Side note - I drove the new Bad Boy Stampede today, wow.

 

[SheepCreekAK]

Hello.. I have put 360 miles of mud, snow and hauling fire wood all over me property. My kids and wife love it. I looked at all the other SXS and the P1KD had the right stuff for what I need and do. The only clutch shuttering I have noticed is when I'm back out of the shed or driving slow though the trees, so I started using low range and it seems to run fine. I do have to keep it in mind that this is the first of its kind and there's bound to be some problems or bugs to work out. I also put a call in to the Honda dealer In Soldotna AK. where I purchased mine and they have not heard of this and they are selling them like hot cakes. So far the only problem I have had is one of the coolant lines on the top of the motor blow off and puked out 2 or 3 quarts of coolant. The hose clamp wasn't tightened. I look forward to riding up to Talkeetna every weekend with my girls just to get ice cream.

 

[walexa07]

Appreciate the reply.
You get my point - and Honda is not advertising this as a 40+ yr old farm man's ride either.
I'm waiting on a couple quotes from my dealer, and the rest will be history.
The only question is 700 or 1000...
I am probably putting too much thought into the width on the 1000 keeping me out of the trails I currently ride with my 61" Wolverine and 60" wide Ranger and also the lack of a parking brake. It's funny no one seems to want to do both. It's either Park in trans or parking brake and no park. Money margins have a funny way of making decisions for people.
Side note - I drove the new Bad Boy Stampede today, wow.

I agree in that I don't think they designed it for the 40+ year old farmer........hard to imagine they are trying to get a piece of the market without watching some RZR videos on youtube. And for once, I think Honda did a good job giving a SPORT/utility machine some real performance. The clutches should be sized to the engine to handle whatever it can dish out and remain intact. Nothing Honda has ever produced before was designed so that the engine could outpower the clutch and destroy it. If you get an old 300 4x4, Rubicon, Rancher, etc., and put tires too big on them they just won't pull them. Granted they are different clutch designs, but running gear that can be abused should be designed as if it is going to be abused - and I think Honda designed the 1000 for such. I am anxious to see if Honda changes anything on the 2017 year model.

If you are making trails with a 61" Wolverine I wouldn't think an extra 2" would be a deal killer; maybe if the wolverine is already scraping everywhere?

I think there is a world of difference in the 700 and the 1000 from reading threads of those that have had both. Based on what I've read and my experience with the 1000 so far, I can't imagine being satisfied with a 700 for my use.

I'd love a parking brake, but what I did all last weekend in the ozark mountains was put it in 4wd locked, turn the wheel all the way one way or another, then let off the brake until the drivetrain bound against itself to where it would hold the vehicle in place (typically less than 2' of rolling). Once the vehicle was holding itself, then I put it in park, killed it, whatever i needed to do. Worked great. Again though, I'd love to have a good strong parking brake.

I don't even know what the Stampede is - guess I'll have to go look it up! Good luck with your decision.

Waylan

 

[500]

I agree in that I don't think they designed it for the 40+ year old farmer........hard to imagine they are trying to get a piece of the market without watching some RZR videos on youtube. And for once, I think Honda did a good job giving a SPORT/utility machine some real performance. The clutches should be sized to the engine to handle whatever it can dish out and remain intact. Nothing Honda has ever produced before was designed so that the engine could outpower the clutch and destroy it. If you get an old 300 4x4, Rubicon, Rancher, etc., and put tires too big on them they just won't pull them. Granted they are different clutch designs, but running gear that can be abused should be designed as if it is going to be abused - and I think Honda designed the 1000 for such. I am anxious to see if Honda changes anything on the 2017 year model.

If you are making trails with a 61" Wolverine I wouldn't think an extra 2" would be a deal killer; maybe if the wolverine is already scraping everywhere?

I think there is a world of difference in the 700 and the 1000 from reading threads of those that have had both. Based on what I've read and my experience with the 1000 so far, I can't imagine being satisfied with a 700 for my use.

I'd love a parking brake, but what I did all last weekend in the ozark mountains was put it in 4wd locked, turn the wheel all the way one way or another, then let off the brake until the drivetrain bound against itself to where it would hold the vehicle in place (typically less than 2' of rolling). Once the vehicle was holding itself, then I put it in park, killed it, whatever i needed to do. Worked great. Again though, I'd love to have a good strong parking brake.

I don't even know what the Stampede is - guess I'll have to go look it up! Good luck with your decision.

Waylan

Good call on the way you use park. I wasn't thinking of that.
Regarding the width - it is probably just analysis paralysis. I thought the Wolverine would be way too wide after having a P500, but it does fine - probably the same would be said after getting a 1000.

 

[Dasmoeturhead]

I'm 59, and this is my 1st UTV, or ATV,and I totally abuse this thing on my 10 acres, using it for every thing work related. I've only had it off the property a couple of times for fun, and that particular kind of off roading is hard on these machines (slow speed rock/loose dirt crawling), so I've been told or read on a forum. I can tell you this thing works as it should. No clutch slipping, and it goes into every mode with no problems. I wish there was a heavy duty parking brake, but so far the stock one works, except I don't like the way it sounds when your on a steep hill (which i always am) and you take it out of park, and you get that big Bang sound. Other than that, this thing friggin Rocks.