P500 Dual battery

[Montecresto]

Anybody done a dual battery setup on the P-500 that has instructions and pictures?

 

[JCart]

Mini Add-A-Battery Kit - 65A - Blue Sea Systems

Monte.... Checkout the above link, this is what I used. Try Amazon thinking they might have it there, instructions come with the kit. I think if you look on their site it will have a schematic too. Here in Canada id guess cost wise for me just parts was on the order of $350-400. My rationale for duals is mine's a work machine and I drive in very remote areas, often alone, so getting back to the truck is a safety concern, (no cell service bla bla..). Duals are not for everyone, I also plow a bunch so it helps there too, if you can justify the cost it's a really good option. The other option is a larger battery mounted under the drivers seat. I'm saving that space for slide out drawer....

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/980014350.pdf I used the Mini add a battery wiring schematic (scroll down on right) so that includes the isolator and main battery switch. Has worked flawlessly for a year now.

Sorry never did a write up on this as the schematic was pretty detailed, I used 4.0 welding cable iirc, guessing the cable is about 1.0 cm in diameter including insulation iirc, so pretty robust, also used solder on pellet ends. You heat up the ring end (propane torch) drop in pellet when it's molten plunge cable into end cup, they work great, then I slide over heat shrink tube and shrunk it on.
Cheers,

jrc

 

[Montecresto]

Mini Add-A-Battery Kit - 65A - Blue Sea Systems

Monte.... Checkout the above link, this is what I used. Try Amazon thinking they might have it there, instructions come with the kit. I think if you look on their site it will have a schematic too. Here in Canada id guess cost wise for me just parts was on the order of $350-400. My rationale for duals is mine's a work machine and I drive in very remote areas, often alone, so getting back to the truck is a safety concern, (no cell service bla bla..). Duals are not for everyone, I also plow a bunch so it helps there too, if you can justify the cost it's a really good option. The other option is a larger battery mounted under the drivers seat. I'm saving that space for slide out drawer....

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/980014350.pdf I used the Mini add a battery wiring schematic (scroll down on right) so that includes the isolator and main battery switch. Has worked flawlessly for a year now.

Sorry never did a write up on this as the schematic was pretty detailed, I used 4.0 welding cable iirc, guessing the cable is about 1.0 cm in diameter including insulation iirc, so pretty robust, also used solder on pellet ends. You heat up the ring end (propane torch) drop in pellet when it's molten plunge cable into end cup, they work great, then I slide over heat shrink tube and shrunk it on.
Cheers,

jrc

Awesome. Thanks for the link. Did you have to run those large cables all the way to the battery, or did you come off of the power hub?

 

[JCart]

Awesome. Thanks for the link. Did you have to run those large cables all the way to the battery, or did you come off of the power hub?

Simple answer yes... More detail below...

I ran 3 cables, ground and positive leads (2 positives) from the stock battery location to the main Blue switch with cable. Pulled off the skid plates and routed cable along the frame. One + cable was the (iirc) power lead from stock battery, (to Blue sea kit), second + cable was from Blue sea kit (different post), to stock power lead cable, (that I unhooked from stock battery), for starting and running stock power of lights ECM etc.

From the Blue sea kit to auxiliary battery I ran cable too, I grounded aux battery to frame at the front of machine. Hooked the winch to aux battery with cable as well.

My rationale for robust cable was to set stuff up so I could add whatever I wanted after, like large power inverter, various lights, stereo, 2 way radio, power steering, running off aux battery. Hope that makes sense, not sure this type of setup is for everyone, it's a little time consuming to set up, I'd say costly too. I do like the flexibility it affords though, perhaps overkill for some people but as I use this for work and with no "manual starter" make sense to me.

jrc

 

[Montecresto]

Simple answer yes... More detail below...

I ran 3 cables, ground and positive leads (2 positives) from the stock battery location to the main Blue switch with cable. Pulled off the skid plates and routed cable along the frame. One + cable was the (iirc) power lead from stock battery, (to Blue sea kit), second + cable was from Blue sea kit (different post), to stock power lead cable, (that I unhooked from stock battery), for starting and running stock power of lights ECM etc.

From the Blue sea kit to auxiliary battery I ran cable too, I grounded aux battery to frame at the front of machine. Hooked the winch to aux battery with cable as well.

My rationale for robust cable was to set stuff up so I could add whatever I wanted after, like large power inverter, various lights, stereo, 2 way radio, power steering, running off aux battery. Hope that makes sense, not sure this type of setup is for everyone, it's a little time consuming to set up, I'd say costly too. I do like the flexibility it affords though, perhaps overkill for some people but as I use this for work and with no "manual starter" make sense to me.

jrc

Thank you. Doesn't sound like over kill to me. I too intend to have a 12-1500 watt inverter. I think I'll be outfitted similarly.

 

[Montecresto]

Also would like to know about amp hours. It appears the OEM is a 12 V 16 AH. Does it matter if one used 20, 24 or 28 AH?

 

[joeymt33]

More amp hour is just more capacity and weight. Other than that, it won't hurt a thing.

 

[JCart]

Also would like to know about amp hours. It appears the OEM is a 12 V 16 AH. Does it matter if one used 20, 24 or 28 AH?

Thinking more Amp hours of reserve the better. I know the first battery I looked at was a lithium ion and was huge power for its size, (in crank power and good reserve), however it was not supposed to work below -18 Celsius (0 F), so I took it back. I then looked for an AGM and/or gel cell and couldn't find one the size I wanted. Ended up with a sealed liquid acid battery (fully sealed so it will not leak, even if upside down), I just can't remember the capacity, but it was critical that it fit inside the ammo can with room to spare. As I recall it ended up somewhere similar to the stock battery for crank amps and reserve power.

jrc

 

[JCart]

I'm not a battery expert and battery tech is changing significantly with Lithium ion technology. As this is your second battery I'd bias the specs to reserve power and look to a deep cycle AGM/gel cell fully sealed battery with lots of reserve. This means you can run the inverter longer with engine off. A deep cycle battery you can run flat and it will fully recharge, where a non deep cycle (like a starting battery), if done a few times will not charge back to full capacity. Not sure where you intend to put your second battery that will help determine physical size. I'll try to look up the lithuim ion one I found, although as I recall it was a starter battery, meaning lots of initial power. For me low temp operability was key so as noted I took it back.

I'd looked at Ballistic Lithium Batteries.... You might wanna do a little research on Lithium Ion and Li Phosphate batteries there are lots to choose from and are possibly better than AGM/gell type batteries pending your application.

jrc

 

[Montecresto]

Thinking more Amp hours of reserve the better. I know the first battery I looked at was a lithium ion and was huge power for its size, (in crank power and good reserve), however it was not supposed to work below -18 Celsius (0 F), so I took it back. I then looked for an AGM and/or gel cell and couldn't find one the size I wanted. Ended up with a sealed liquid acid battery (fully sealed so it will not leak, even if upside down), I just can't remember the capacity, but it was critical that it fit inside the ammo can with room to spare. As I recall it ended up somewhere similar to the stock battery for crank amps and reserve power.

jrc

Thank you very much! So you too don't see a problem with a dual battery having more AH's than the OEM? I read in a "tips for installing dual battery" piece that disimilar battery types (i.e. Lead acid/LI) shouldn't be paired together????? What are your thoughts on that. And the specs on truly sealed LA batteries that they won't leak in any position other than inverted!

 

[Montecresto]

I'm not a battery expert and battery tech is changing significantly with Lithium ion technology. As this is your second battery I'd bias the specs to reserve power and look to a deep cycle AGM/gel cell fully sealed battery with lots of reserve. This means you can run the inverter longer with engine off. A deep cycle battery you can run flat and it will fully recharge, where a non deep cycle (like a starting battery), if done a few times will not charge back to full capacity. Not sure where you intend to put your second battery that will help determine physical size. I'll try to look up the lithuim ion one I found, although as I recall it was a starter battery, meaning lots of initial power. For me low temp operability was key so as noted I took it back.

I'd looked at Ballistic Lithium Batteries.... You might wanna do a little research on Lithium Ion and Li Phosphate batteries there are lots to choose from and are possibly better than AGM/gell type batteries pending your application.

jrc

I'm going to place mine in roughly the same location that you have, albeit in a plastic case. I definitely like the idea of a deep cycle battery. Thank you again for your input.

 

[Montecresto]

More amp hour is just more capacity and weight. Other than that, it won't hurt a thing.

Thank you joey!

 

[JCart]

I'm going to place mine in roughly the same location that you have, albeit in a plastic case. I definitely like the idea of a deep cycle battery. Thank you again for your input.

Monte.... I may have been mislead by the guys that sold me the Aux battery in terms of working inverted.... So far it's worked great and has shown no leakage, albeit's not inverted. I think mixing battery types and capacities may be a concern, pending how you set it up. My thinking and understanding at the time with the isolator/monitor of the Blue sea kit each battery is monitored individually and charges accordingly. Discharging is somewhat isolated using the aux battery as optional e-equipment is not attached to main battery. My understanding with the Blue sea kit is it will revert to using both batteries to start only (if left in auto or manual overridden), should the main fall below a certain threshold. So in essence they are separate systems (except for emergency starts) or manual override. If I've got this right then battery type shouldn't be significant with my system. Now if the system was paired with no isolator then batteries compatibility would be significant.

Hope that helps, again, I'm no battery/e-sparky guy

jrc

 

[Montecresto]

Monte.... I may have been mislead by the guys that sold me the Aux battery in terms of working inverted.... So far it's worked great and has shown no leakage, albeit's not inverted. I think mixing battery types and capacities may be a concern, pending how you set it up. My thinking and understanding at the time with the isolator/monitor of the Blue sea kit each battery is monitored individually and charges accordingly. Discharging is somewhat isolated using the aux battery as optional e-equipment is not attached to main battery. My understanding with the Blue sea kit is it will revert to using both batteries to start only (if left in auto or manual overridden), should the main fall below a certain threshold. So in essence they are separate systems (except for emergency starts) or manual override. If I've got this right then battery type shouldn't be significant with my system. Now if the system was paired with no isolator then batteries compatibility would be significant.

Hope that helps, again, I'm no battery/e-sparky guy

jrc

By all means, everything helps! I will be using the Blue Sea mini with isolater, so I may go with a dissimilar battery only because I want a smaller version than the OEM. So, if I understand you correctly, you don't have a large red cable running between the two batteries positive terminals??? If so, how does the auxiliary battery get recharged? I understand that you're not a "battery/e-sparky guy" but I don't intend on holding you accountable for anything, lol. No worries. But you have an operational dual battery system that's functioning, which is where I want to arrive without frying anything, so I appreciate what you're willing to share.

 

[JCart]

By all means, everything helps! I will be using the Blue Sea mini with isolater, so I may go with a dissimilar battery only because I want a smaller version than the OEM. So, if I understand you correctly, you don't have a large red cable running between the two batteries positive terminals??? If so, how does the auxiliary battery get recharged? I understand that you're not a "battery/e-sparky guy" but I don't intend on holding you accountable for anything, lol. No worries. But you have an operational dual battery system that's functioning, which is where I want to arrive without frying anything, so I appreciate what you're willing to share.

Red cable running between + posts directly.... No. I think of it as the battery isolator sits "between" the two batteries, monitors voltage and charges batteries separately on individual circuit. Each battery is charge via the engine stator/alternator. Once you read through the install diagram it will make sense.

jrc

 

[Montecresto]

Red cable running between + posts directly.... No. I think of it as the battery isolator sits "between" the two batteries, monitors voltage and charges batteries separately on individual circuit. Each battery is charge via the engine stator/alternator. Once you read through the install diagram it will make sense.

jrc

Thank you. I have received the Mini Add-A-Battery and still am a bit confused by the wiring diagram. I do understand that the m-acr (isolator) sets between the two battery positives and monitors voltage. What's questionable is that the diagram shows the positive cable from the start battery coming to the battery switch and then to the engine. Does this mean that I have to trace the start batteries OEM positive cable to wherever it runs and move it to the Mini switch, and then from the Mini switch back to where it originally ran??? Also, what type of fuses did you use on the battery positive lines to the isolator and from the switch to the auxillery fuse panel?

 

[JCart]

Thank you. I have received the Mini Add-A-Battery and still am a bit confused by the wiring diagram. I do understand that the m-acr (isolator) sets between the two battery positives and monitors voltage. What's questionable is that the diagram shows the positive cable from the start battery coming to the battery switch and then to the engine. Does this mean that I have to trace the start batteries OEM positive cable to wherever it runs and move it to the Mini switch, and then from the Mini switch back to where it originally ran??? Also, what type of fuses did you use on the battery positive lines to the isolator and from the switch to the auxillery fuse panel?

The short answer is yes and this is how I did it:
So what I did, unhooked the + cable lead from stock battery (and let it hang for the moment) and ran 2 + leads from mini switch to the stock battery location and 1 more from the m-acr for charging, for total 3 lines to stock battery location. From the mini switch #1 posts (marked on back of switch) one positive lead goes + stock battery terminal, the other #1 post I hooked into the stock positive lead (that used to be attached to stock battery, that is hanging loose). This takes care of "trace OEM cable". Now from the m-acr the third lead runs to the stock battery + post for charging.
Fuses, on positive cable I found water resistant blade fuses and I think I used 40-50 amp (I'll check as it was a year ago now). For the auxiliary fuse I'll have to check as I don't recall and possibly didn't install one as my auxiliary fuse block has blade fuses in the block for each circuit already. Which I've not used yet....

For the charge cables from the m-acr I ran a little smaller cable, I wanna say welding cable # 6, the main + power leads I used # 4 welding cable, perhaps a little overkill but I didn't want stuff to melt. As the cables are larger in dia, I opted for solder on ends. Using a propane torch you heat the solder on end up till hot and drop a solder pellet into the where the cable butts into, the pellet turns molten then you plunge the cable into the molten end. When it cools, the attached cable is very solid, they work awesome and make for a clean end to bolt the battery and switch posts. I also put on heat shrink tube for a nice look. Also helps to label the ends of each cable.

jrc

 

[Montecresto]

The short answer is yes and this is how I did it:
So what I did, unhooked the + cable lead from stock battery (and let it hang for the moment) and ran 2 + leads from mini switch to the stock battery location and 1 more from the m-acr for charging, for total 3 lines to stock battery location. From the mini switch #1 posts (marked on back of switch) one positive lead goes + stock battery terminal, the other #1 post I hooked into the stock positive lead (that used to be attached to stock battery, that is hanging loose). This takes care of "trace OEM cable". Now from the m-acr the third lead runs to the stock battery + post for charging.
Fuses, on positive cable I found water resistant blade fuses and I think I used 40-50 amp (I'll check as it was a year ago now). For the auxiliary fuse I'll have to check as I don't recall and possibly didn't install one as my auxiliary fuse block has blade fuses in the block for each circuit already. Which I've not used yet....

For the charge cables from the m-acr I ran a little smaller cable, I wanna say welding cable # 6, the main + power leads I used # 4 welding cable, perhaps a little overkill but I didn't want stuff to melt. As the cables are larger in dia, I opted for solder on ends. Using a propane torch you heat the solder on end up till hot and drop a solder pellet into the where the cable butts into, the pellet turns molten then you plunge the cable into the molten end. When it cools, the attached cable is very solid, they work awesome and make for a clean end to bolt the battery and switch posts. I also put on heat shrink tube for a nice look. Also helps to label the ends of each cable.

jrc

Thank you jrc, I'll give it a go!

 

[JCart]

Thank you jrc, I'll give it a go!

You are welcome, if I can assist just lemme know.

jrc

 

[Montecresto]

You are welcome, if I can assist just lemme know.

jrc

Ok, I do have more questions. The configuration of the housings for both the switch and the m-ARC are a bit confusing. I can see how they designed the two halves of the housing to be fastened together but not mounted to a surface??? Also, did you use the optional start isolation wire (marked SI on the back of the m-ARC), and if so, how did you connect it to the ignition switch. And did you use the optional switch for no current draw when in storage (marked GND on the back of the m-ARC). Both have blade connectors for use with 16 awg wire. And if you did use the latter, what type of switch did you use? Thanks jrc!