P700 Hard starting when hot.

[BigMac]

My 2016 700 starts good when cold or been running for several minutes. After 20 minutes or so or when 2 bars show on display it may not start or is very difficult.

Starter turns over but not firing. May fire after several attempts but need to flutter gas pedal to keep running. Then may stall again when idling when warm.

Honda mechanic now trying to help. Changed plugs twice, cleaned air cleaner, looked at exhaust, fuel tank had no water, seems think filter would not be a problem, cleaned throttle body, checked value clearance- no change needed.

Need helpful suggestions. I am guessing maybe computer or fuel pump?

 

[Admin]

 

[DG Rider]

Pull the injector to see if it's leaking.(smell oil for gas as well)
Have him test the coolant temp sensor and air intake temp sensor against the specs.

 

[Bigseff23]

I would see what kinda psi the pump is putting out. Also did the old plugs look dry or wet with fuel?

 

[BigMac]

I would see what kinda psi the pump is putting out. Also did the old plugs look dry or wet with fuel?

We both replaced them. When I took them out top was clean one one side was dark with carbon and/or oil.

 

[wrhii]

We both replaced them. When I took them out top was clean one one side was dark with carbon and/or oil.

I may have missed some of this thread, sorry. My 2019 1000 acted similar. Almost always a cold start, but no hot start. If it did, it sputter and quit. So, listen for the fuel pump to cycle when ignition is first turned on. Check for fuel pressure at the injector. If you have neither, then find and check for power at the pump. If you have power then replace the pump. Fyi, both 1000 and 700s take the same pump and Honda issued a recall right after I replaced mine. One other thing, while I was trying to diagnose my 45 hour old machine, if I cycled the key repeatedly sometimes I could get the pump to run on a hot restart. The machine would continue to operate fine once you got it running.

 

[BigMac]

I would see what kinda psi the pump is putting out. Also did the old plugs look dry or wet with fuel?

Thank you.

Not sure I have heard pump in long time. I here something click on and leave key on 10 seconds or more starts then let blinking light extinguish then drive off then if shut off or it may die at idle.
Then may not start at all till cools down. Only shows 2 bars on heat gage.
Also does not cycle the radiator fan as much as before and had some issues with panel locking up saying it was too hot when engine was cool to touch. Happen 3 times and either unlplugged computer or took ground wire off then it started.

 

[wrhii]

Thank you.

Not sure I have heard pump in long time. I here something click on and leave key on 10 seconds or more starts then let blinking light extinguish then drive off then if shut off or it may die at idle.
Then may not start at all till cools down. Only shows 2 bars on heat gage.
Also does not cycle the radiator fan as much as before and had some issues with panel locking up saying it was too hot when engine was cool to touch. Happen 3 times and either unlplugged computer or took ground wire off then it started.

Wow seems to be a lot going on then. Get the service manual and follow the diagnostic flow chart. A volt/ ohm meter is about all you'll need for now. Also pull the flash codes(procedure in the manual).

 

[HondaTech]

I may have missed some of this thread, sorry. My 2019 1000 acted similar. Almost always a cold start, but no hot start. If it did, it sputter and quit. So, listen for the fuel pump to cycle when ignition is first turned on. Check for fuel pressure at the injector. If you have neither, then find and check for power at the pump. If you have power then replace the pump. Fyi, both 1000 and 700s take the same pump and Honda issued a recall right after I replaced mine. One other thing, while I was trying to diagnose my 45 hour old machine, if I cycled the key repeatedly sometimes I could get the pump to run on a hot restart. The machine would continue to operate fine once you got it running.

Honda should reimburse you for this, it's usually mentioned in the customer letter on recalls.

 

[Slackjaw]

Product Update Campaign for Faulty Fuel Pump 2019 model years only!

Released today in reference to malfunctioning fuel pumps that can quit working on 2019 models Pioneer 500, 700, and 100p and Rancher, Foreman, Rubicon atvs. Honda is replacing the pump itself, not the entire assembly. No VIN range given at this time. @Hondasxs Feel free to drop into respective...

hondasxs.com

 

[wrhii]

Honda should reimburse you for this, it's usually mentioned in the customer letter on recalls.

I appreciate ya being in the group, looking out for us @HondaTech 👍 . Dealer agreed to "recall original pump" and replaced it . After we verified that the pump I bought outright was in fact the updated unit. I just have a spare pump on the shelf that fits multiple units. No problems with my guys, they r a pretty good bunch of fellas.

 

[BigMac]

I appreciate ya being in the group, looking out for us @HondaTech 👍 . Dealer agreed to "recall original pump" and replaced it . After we verified that the pump I bought outright was in fact the updated unit. I just have a spare pump on the shelf that fits multiple units. No problems with my guys, they r a pretty good bunch of fellas.

The recall does not apply here. Pioneer 700 SXS700M2 model year 2016. VIN 1HFVE0220G4200696. Engine No. CE01E-8313721. Great suggestions. I plan to pass them on next week to the mechanic Mr. Cook.

It has been a very reliable machine. When extremely cold I think and glue on engine preheater would help it start and definitely needs warmed up for transmission in winter. I have never had to assist to get it unstuck but has been up to rails in crossing ditches on ranch. Also great helper while checking on calving, fencing, hauling feed and sick calves in the trunk or front.

 

[wrhii]

View attachment 230781

The recall does not apply here. Pioneer 700 SXS700M2 model year 2016. VIN 1HFVE0220G4200696. Engine No. CE01E-8313721. Great suggestions. I plan to pass them on next week to the mechanic Mr. Cook.

It has been a very reliable machine. When extremely cold I think and glue on engine preheater would help it start and definitely needs warmed up for transmission in winter. I have never had to assist to get it unstuck but has been up to rails in crossing ditches on ranch. Also great helper while checking on calving, fencing, hauling feed and sick calves in the trunk or front.

I agree that the recall doesn't apply but some of the symptoms do. On mine, it seemed as though there was a bad spot in the pump windings. We've got a 15 700 now that the fuel pump won't run at key on, have to cycle the key several times before it'll start. Gotta try and diagnose it next week. In your second post, you gave many more symptoms that lead to wiring issues maybe. The ranch has 5 of these things this forum tries to help me keep running. Ranch life is hard on these machines too. Good luck, and by all means sir, let us know what ya find. 👍

 

[Slackjaw]

I agree that the recall doesn't apply but some of the symptoms do. On mine, it seemed as though there was a bad spot in the pump windings. We've got a 15 700 now that the fuel pump won't run at key on, have to cycle the key several times before it'll start. Gotta try and diagnose it next week. In your second post, you gave many more symptoms that lead to wiring issues maybe. The ranch has 5 of these things this forum tries to help me keep running. Ranch life is hard on these machines too. Good luck, and by all means sir, let us know what ya find. 👍

That describes a faulty fuel pump relay.
Not uncommon on the Rincons.

 

[wrhii]

That describes a faulty fuel pump relay.
Not uncommon on the Rincons.

I didn't get to it yet. some similarities to his problems. maybe he'll update

 

[BigMac]

Forwarding suggestions to mechanic today. I also noticed that Idle air control value is noted on hard starting and stalling in trouble shooting sections of the 2014 service manual I saw on Honda SXS site.

 

[CID]

I've had a FI motorcycle and my Talon have hard hot starts - both have responded well to WFO throttle when starting. That would imply an overly rich starting map (known on the Talon) flooding on hot starts; when you add in my high altitudes (frequently over 10k feet), you get hot start flooding.

 

[BillEwing]

Following my 2018 700 -4 does the same thing. When its hot hard to start, 225 miles on it.


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[BigMac]

Thanks to everyone assisting. Was difficult to find. Took it to second honda dealer. Really liked the mechanic. Found oil coming down stator connector. Checked voltage with running and was enough to charge battery but not enough to start engine. I believe he said it was putting out 12.4 volts but needed 14 volts to run.

Burnt out stator apparently was not producing enough voltage to start engine when warm or keep it running. Maybe why it was stalling when hot too?

Diagnostics computer did not find the problem.

Seems to be starting good again.

 

[BillEwing]

Our 2018 never stalls just cranks a few times more when starting back from a long run. Feathering the gas pedal to initially keep it running when you start it back helps. I am not sure my issue sounds electrical but not sure.


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[BigMac]

I am not a Honda mechanic and only turn few wrenches.

I believe feathering gas pedal when hard to start was putting more gas through fuel injector when my voltage was low. That allowed it to start and kept running until stator put some more power out.
The burnt stator got much worse over couple months.

I changed oil, plugs, cleaned air filter. First mechanic repeated air filter and plugs, cleaned throttle body, checked fuel pump, checked value clearance and hard starting got much worse.

Second mechanic did computer testing, checked value clearance found them little to wide, changed fuel injector as it seemed intermittently working, I believe he was correct but fault was not enough power to injector or plug. Hopefully the stator was major problem.

Bill I suggest when you turn on the key wait till lights quit blinking as I heard it helps set computer for weather conditions then crank. I pause before cranking on my tractors too with belief build up fuel pressure on my tractors.

I suggest you find a good Honda mechanic that will talk to you and listen. Not just the closest one or where you bought it. May want to take it in for routine stuff just to build relationships. I am hauling mine back for maintence to Chris and will go there as long as he is there.

We run ours more than 300 days a year as have cow/calf operation and cannot run trucks or Jimmy where need to go as ruts up pastures and take a lot of walking. I believe it is hard on road vehicles too

Looked into switching from Honda. I know the gold wing was standard for reliability and I was BMW rider. My Harley friends always like to have a pickup trailing just in case something rattled apart. Web still states Honda is most reliable UTV which is what I need for working cattle and all work that goes with fences, waters, etc.

Looking for an additional P-700 or new P-520.