J
JTW
Guest
We have lots of JD’s around here.. but lots of green tractors too as we have a dealership 10 miles away and are a very rural area. Our Yammy dealer closed a year or so ago.. but they were popular too.
H
hondabob
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Can-Am is doing a good job with lots of new models and moved past John Deere. If Honda has a few 2 and 4 seat sport models they can move past John Deere in a couple of years and maybe Can-Am too. Its going to be an interesting year.
nbomar
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
It’s only competitive in N America. Motorcycles are global.
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DG Rider
Member: Triple Clutch Club
Lifetime Member
That was the most biased and despicable example of the media and lawyers exploiting people in the throes of grief and suffering that I have ever seen in my life. What a bunch of douche bags. Looked more like a hit job on Japanese companies... "They tricked me into buying a machine that killed my son" W.T.F. !!?? Yup, I was just riding along, and the machine jumped straight up, turned upside down, and tried to kill me.....
Also a perfect example of 'you can't fix stupid'.
I've seen it on the trails- children riding ATVs and dirtbikes on mountain trails, and the kids can barely reach the controls- makes me sick to see it. Then when (oh God, how did this happen?!) one of them gets hurt, or very sadly, killed, the adults/parents, blame everything, and everyone, but themselves.
If a child, or minor under 18, in your care, hurts themselves on a machine that you allowed them to ride, YOU, and you alone are 100% responsible for that situation. I.M.H.O. I'm not talking about mechanical failures, or unavoidable accidents. But when I see an 8-9 yr old kid, on a moto-cross bike they can barely reach the clutch lever on, and not even close to being able to put their feet on the ground without leaning the machine, riding down a very steep rocky trail on the side of a mountain.... that's just f'n stupid. So if that kid looses control and gets smashed to sh*t...Dad...That's YOUR fault.
Is this why Honda isn't competitive in the sxs market? Plausible, but Suzuki still makes ATV's, and Yamaha has been ramping it up for a while now. The one glaring thing I don't see the Jap's doing, is MARKETING. It's painfully obvious in the marine engine side as well. Mercury is still a top seller- hell, their marketing makes me want one... If I didn't know what horrible pieces of crap they are, I would have bought one. They do what Polaris does-or may be the other way around.. IT'S NEW!! IT'S SHINY!! LOOK AT ALL THE MODELS TO CHOSE FROM!! "THE LEADER IN INNOVATION"!! WE'RE THE BEST!! (just ask us).. MOST POWER AVAILABLE TO MERE MORTALS!! WE OFFER 5 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ENGINES WITH THE SAME H.P. (what?- yuup) ALL OUR SMALL ENGINES ARE TOHATSU'S... (OOPS! They don't tell you that.) WE BOUGHT SEVERAL BOAT BUILDERS- INCLUDING BOSTON WHALER- TO FORCE YOU TO GET A MERCURY (OOPS! They don't tell you that either)
So ya, Mercury Marine (Brunswick Corporation) has mastered MARKETING. Polaris, and Can-Am (BRP) are also damn good at it. Unfortunately, Honda doesn't have much to market, but this idea they seem to have that 'dependability' is gonna win them something in the market place is clearly overblown. We already expect that, and continuing to 'sell' it, only makes it ten times worse for them when they have an issue with their machines- they get ripped to pieces for the smallest fault, where the domestic manufacturers don't get but the slightest notice for absolutely abysmal and on-going failures... We expect domestic machines to be junk, and worse yet make excuses for it, and continue to reward them for it. I do think some of that is changing, but the bias is still just crazy..
And for my next novel...... This is @JACKAL 's fault! He posted that damn video, and tricked me into writing this
I'll be here all week!
A
Just my .02 look at the models available thats how they have 41% along with highlifter in their hip pocket snorkeling and lifting machines from factory no one else is doing it besides Can-am with their X MR line.
I have to add an update to my response. Until recently, I had never driven any of the sport oriented machines from Polaris or any other o.e.m. for that matter. I was given a brand new (2019) rzr1000 to drive for better part of a day on the Spearhead trails in Boissevain VA. These are trails I'm very familiar with, and is my 'go-to' place with my P500. If you aren't aware already, I've made a lot of mods to my machine to specifically make it more capable on the mountain terrain I love. Here's the list: 26" rip-saw rt's, full coverage 5/16 aluminum skid plates, four corner air suspension with individual control and full floating control arm mod, rear sway bar removed, Torq-Locker front diff lock, power steering, winch, Tusk H.D. front axles, a snorkel system, and a small box on the rack with extra gas, tow straps, air hose etc. Many of these trails are a real challenge for my machine, and quite often, me. If you have a P500, you know what I mean. So, back to the rzr.
Me and the Princess jumped into the rzr, I made myself comfortable with the controls etc., shifted into low range, pushed the 4wd button, and off we went. We followed our friends in their rzr-800. Our rzr-1000 had full doors, windshield, roof, and back, power steering, tilt wheel, and I think 30" tires. We rode down and up trails that require focus, planning, and no screw-ups to traverse safely in my P500, with no effort whatsoever.... just steer, and push the throttle or brake as needed. No skill required....none- except when braking going down steep trails. It was like playing a video game in your recliner. You don't feel any bumps, there's no sense of ever losing traction,(except downhill) the machine doesn't lean in off-camber situations, we went through ruts and mud that would be impassable without the winch in the P500, again with no effort or skill required- anyone who can steer and reach the peddles could have driven the same trails, and the power is truly insane. It accelerates motorcycle fast- at least in low range. I recently drove a 2018 Ferrari 488 with near 700 H.P.- the rzr-1000 accelerates harder, so going fast is where skill is required, cuz these things are fast, and they get fast very quickly. The things I really didn't like about it, at least on the tight mountain trails, is the lack of visibility, particularly when cresting the top of a steep incline cuz you can't see over the hood, or around the machine for that matter, and really scary, is the complete lack of engine braking- lose the brakes on those trails- you gonna die. And in general- aside from the video game-like experience... It was quite cool outside during our ride, and it got hot as hell in the cab, and apparently these new machines are much cooler than previous models, and it's loud as hell in the cab, even with my helmet on, and that constant 4-5,000 r.p.m. droning away with the cvt trans is annoying as hell to me. A conversation is near impossible without shouting.
So after 4-5 hours on the trails, I see why many (apparently the majority)of the people want a machine like this, but it just made me appreciate my P500, and the mods I've made that much more, and there's a very satisfying sense of accomplishment because it forces me to improve my driving skills, it's just plain fun, and even the sense of adventure, to get that little machine through the most challenging trails, and not be isolated from the open air and elements. I had an enclosure on mine for a brief period, and took it off- I just felt too insulated from the outdoor experience.... and I guess that puts me in a small minority of riders. I think the folks that really love their ATV's know what I mean.
More reasons why Polaris owns the market, they just continuously add more options to their machines. 10 minutes in an rzr-1000 and you feel like Superman. I guess that's why so many of them get wrecked or busted so often.
If the present trend continues, they will eventually have machines that will just drive themselves and require no driver input/skill what-so-ever. Just get in and it will take you for a ride in a climate controlled cabin while kids play video games or watch movies in the back. FUN! ya...
This post is just my personal opinion!!
Me and the Princess jumped into the rzr, I made myself comfortable with the controls etc., shifted into low range, pushed the 4wd button, and off we went. We followed our friends in their rzr-800. Our rzr-1000 had full doors, windshield, roof, and back, power steering, tilt wheel, and I think 30" tires. We rode down and up trails that require focus, planning, and no screw-ups to traverse safely in my P500, with no effort whatsoever.... just steer, and push the throttle or brake as needed. No skill required....none- except when braking going down steep trails. It was like playing a video game in your recliner. You don't feel any bumps, there's no sense of ever losing traction,(except downhill) the machine doesn't lean in off-camber situations, we went through ruts and mud that would be impassable without the winch in the P500, again with no effort or skill required- anyone who can steer and reach the peddles could have driven the same trails, and the power is truly insane. It accelerates motorcycle fast- at least in low range. I recently drove a 2018 Ferrari 488 with near 700 H.P.- the rzr-1000 accelerates harder, so going fast is where skill is required, cuz these things are fast, and they get fast very quickly. The things I really didn't like about it, at least on the tight mountain trails, is the lack of visibility, particularly when cresting the top of a steep incline cuz you can't see over the hood, or around the machine for that matter, and really scary, is the complete lack of engine braking- lose the brakes on those trails- you gonna die. And in general- aside from the video game-like experience... It was quite cool outside during our ride, and it got hot as hell in the cab, and apparently these new machines are much cooler than previous models, and it's loud as hell in the cab, even with my helmet on, and that constant 4-5,000 r.p.m. droning away with the cvt trans is annoying as hell to me. A conversation is near impossible without shouting.
So after 4-5 hours on the trails, I see why many (apparently the majority)of the people want a machine like this, but it just made me appreciate my P500, and the mods I've made that much more, and there's a very satisfying sense of accomplishment because it forces me to improve my driving skills, it's just plain fun, and even the sense of adventure, to get that little machine through the most challenging trails, and not be isolated from the open air and elements. I had an enclosure on mine for a brief period, and took it off- I just felt too insulated from the outdoor experience.... and I guess that puts me in a small minority of riders. I think the folks that really love their ATV's know what I mean.
More reasons why Polaris owns the market, they just continuously add more options to their machines. 10 minutes in an rzr-1000 and you feel like Superman. I guess that's why so many of them get wrecked or busted so often.
If the present trend continues, they will eventually have machines that will just drive themselves and require no driver input/skill what-so-ever. Just get in and it will take you for a ride in a climate controlled cabin while kids play video games or watch movies in the back. FUN! ya...
This post is just my personal opinion!!
Bradley-Thornton
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
I agree 100% My buddy has a RZR 1000-4 turbo, I rode with him all day and it was like riding in a Cadillac but it did take a level of fun completely out of it. He has 3 setting on the fox shock and I don't know if I added fox instead of 814s if it would ride like his but that is the only thing I wish mine had like his was that thing did have one smooth ride. BUT it was all electric adjustable shocks I would want manual thats just something else to break.
J
JTW
Guest
Yup.. I think this is part of what makes the p1000 such a great all around machine. It’s that happy median between capability and comfort. But still allows for a challenge
Russ989
Land of the free because of the Brave! 🇺🇸
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Club Contributor
Look at the number of liberals in America, it definitely helps their success!
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highpocket74
Well-Known Member
Vendor
Lifetime Member
Polaris RZR sells performance, not reliability. Their suspensions are tuned to ride like a Buick in all conditions. They are easy to operate and drive with the CVT.
Like I've said in other posts, we have always been Honda riders since a kid in the 80s. Family members worked for local Honda and raced Honda. So I was raised on red. In 1989 Honda killed the TRX250R and all performance ATVs until the 1999 TRX400EX, and the 2005 TRX450R. Neither of those atvs are produced today.
Polaris stuck their neck out with the original RZR 800 in 2008. That bet has paid off BIG for them. Honda sat on the sidelines content with sales of their boring but bulletproof utility atvs.
I read articles about when Polaris bought Indian motorcycles and how they designed 3 new models in 18 months! That was unheard of. Most manufacturers can only design 1 new model in that time frame!
In the 80s Honda was where Polaris is now. They offered several sport ATC models; 200X 250SX, 250R, 350X. Remember "Follow the leader, he's on a Honda"? For 2020 Polaris offers 13 sport 2 seater and 4-seater SXS models. Honda offers 3 with the Talon X & R, and 4 seater X. And it took Honda 11 years after the RZR800 bomb to get those 3 to market. And let's not forget the YZ400 that Yamaha dropped on everyone as Doug Henry put a spanking on everyone that year in motocross!! Honda had to catch up from that bomb too. Honda dropped the ball on pure sport sxs models. None of the Japanese manufacturers have put much effort into challenging Polaris. The market is booming but I think they are so late to the market, they now have a long uphill battle. Meanwhile Polaris continues to advance.
I've had 3 RZRs. Even the 800 was fun to ride fast! Bought my Talon X in January of 2020, and I'll tell you my wife has driven only a few times. Too many options for her with the transmission is the main thing. I like it because it gives some rider control, but she LOVED driving the RZR S 1000! She won't say it but I think she's fairly disappointed with the Talon judging by the fact that she never wants to drive it. I'll probably end up getting her a another RZR later down the road.
Like I've said in other posts, we have always been Honda riders since a kid in the 80s. Family members worked for local Honda and raced Honda. So I was raised on red. In 1989 Honda killed the TRX250R and all performance ATVs until the 1999 TRX400EX, and the 2005 TRX450R. Neither of those atvs are produced today.
Polaris stuck their neck out with the original RZR 800 in 2008. That bet has paid off BIG for them. Honda sat on the sidelines content with sales of their boring but bulletproof utility atvs.
I read articles about when Polaris bought Indian motorcycles and how they designed 3 new models in 18 months! That was unheard of. Most manufacturers can only design 1 new model in that time frame!
In the 80s Honda was where Polaris is now. They offered several sport ATC models; 200X 250SX, 250R, 350X. Remember "Follow the leader, he's on a Honda"? For 2020 Polaris offers 13 sport 2 seater and 4-seater SXS models. Honda offers 3 with the Talon X & R, and 4 seater X. And it took Honda 11 years after the RZR800 bomb to get those 3 to market. And let's not forget the YZ400 that Yamaha dropped on everyone as Doug Henry put a spanking on everyone that year in motocross!! Honda had to catch up from that bomb too. Honda dropped the ball on pure sport sxs models. None of the Japanese manufacturers have put much effort into challenging Polaris. The market is booming but I think they are so late to the market, they now have a long uphill battle. Meanwhile Polaris continues to advance.
I've had 3 RZRs. Even the 800 was fun to ride fast! Bought my Talon X in January of 2020, and I'll tell you my wife has driven only a few times. Too many options for her with the transmission is the main thing. I like it because it gives some rider control, but she LOVED driving the RZR S 1000! She won't say it but I think she's fairly disappointed with the Talon judging by the fact that she never wants to drive it. I'll probably end up getting her a another RZR later down the road.
I agree with all the aforementioned reasons but the main reason i see Polaris owning the market in my area is simple. People are followers, everybody that has a rzr in my area probably did zero research on their unit. Mr. Cool and his son have a rzr and that’s all that matters. Nobody wants to go against the grain and be outcast. Except me, but, I grew up on a Honda, riding trails is probably a new way of life to those folks, I’ve been experiencing it with a Honda since 87.
R
rickoshea
Guest
i've ridden honda/yamaha for over 35 years.i ended up in a pioneer not because i like honda,but because i did exhaustive research in sxs brands before i dropped almost 30k. i did a deeep dive in customer satisfaction on alot of side by side forums for almost a year, and the results were very surprising.believe it or not cf moto is way up there in satisfied customers and if they had a 4/5 seater i probably would have bought one.granted,they have issues,but all makes do.and i'd still have had enough left over on my budget to get some sort of utility machine.guys say"chinese crap",but they've been selling in europe for almost as long as polaris has been selling in N.A. polaris was off the table almost as soon as i started my research.still think i made the right choice with the pioneer but i do want a krx.
Spread the word, riding a Polaris is like riding my grandfathers new Buick: smooth, soft, easy, powerful turbocharged engine. If you want a FUN, technical sxs, get a Pioneer 500! Right @Smitty335 ???
I didn't do 'extensive' research, but I did do a fair bit, and ended up picking the P-500 by a wide margin, and honestly, as soon as I found out Honda made sxs's, the decision was 80% made. Not a fanboy, but we all know Honda's reputation.
I have looked at cf-moto (and other brands) several times over the years, due to Honda never offering any meaningful options/upgrades for the P-500. (yet another reason for Polaris dominance)
The main reason for the interest in the cf-moto has been purely pricing.... until now. Due to all the information that is coming to light lately about china, I will not buy a chinese built machine. Ever. I just can't stomach the idea of supporting that regime. NOTE: please don't think I've made a brash decision here- I've put a lot of thought into this and understand there's a lot involved, and it's the choice I've made.
I wish I could buy a domestic machine and have confidence in it, but I just don't, and I'm so fond of the manual transmission in the P-500.
Polaris definitely markets to the masses, and has always had the reputation for over-the-top performance machines whether it was snowmobiles, atv's, or sxs's, and that seems to attract immediate attention to the brand right off the bat, and then you start looking and see all the available choices and options. I don't think Honda will ever be any threat to Polaris's market share, without a drastic change in their apparent corporate philosophy.
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rickoshea
Guest
you do realize that you support that regime every time you open your wallet, right?
Ya I know, but I'm very hopeful that a lot of that is going to change. Like I said, I put a lot of thought into my decision. I've looked at, and test drove the cf-motos zforce 800 trail, and the 60" version several times, and came very very close to buying one- I really liked both, but in this case for sure, I'm putting conscience ahead of desire.
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