P500 Who wants a diff. Lock ?

[Bastardchild]

Ever since i watched the install video that @jay_man81 made im wondering even more how these things even work lol. If its supposed to ratchet when you turn a corner because it senses that the tires are wanting to turn at different speeds, then why doesnt it ratchet when you go in a mud hole and it senses one wheel possibly having more traction than the other, like when one wheel hits a submerged root under the mud and the other doesnt. You would think that it would think its turning a corner and start ratcheting and the wheel that hit the root, the traction wheel basically, would start ratcheting, meaning, not pulling, and the wheel that didnt hit the root, basically the wheel with less traction, would keep spinning. I mean, @JWB has said they work like a true locker, and supposedly they never truly 'unlock', they just ratchet but both sides are always engaged. I mean, im not doubting it works at all. Im just amazed i guess at the engineering of it. Im definetly getting one, i gotta get my wife a couple axles first though lol.

 

[Admin]

 

[Neohio]

I will try to explain this without being overly complicated.

This style locker only locks when under power.
When power is applied to the ring gear via the pinion/driveshaft, it twists the carrier,
Under load the carrier twists the locker apart, the cross pin(part held in with the peened pin) pushes the center parts towards the half shafts, which locks it all together, under no load, when trying to turn, the outside pieces with the teeth only need to overcome the light spring pressure to ratchet(The small springs you watched @JWB install). If you are driving down the trails with the hammer down, and try to turn, I think this will still be locked. I may be wrong though.

 

[Chooglin]

I will try to explain this without being overly complicated.

This style locker only locks when under power.
When power is applied to the ring gear via the pinion/driveshaft, it twists the carrier,
Under load the carrier twists the locker apart, the cross pin(part held in with the peened pin) pushes the center parts towards the half shafts, which locks it all together, under no load, when trying to turn, the outside pieces with the teeth only need to overcome the light spring pressure to ratchet(The small springs you watched @JWB install). If you are driving down the trails with the hammer down, and try to turn, I think this will still be locked. I may be wrong though.

This is a very good explanation!

 

[Neohio]

This is a very good explanation!

Thank-you, Only part I am not 100% certain of is the last sentence.

 

[Bastardchild]

I will try to explain this without being overly complicated.

This style locker only locks when under power.
When power is applied to the ring gear via the pinion/driveshaft, it twists the carrier,
Under load the carrier twists the locker apart, the cross pin(part held in with the peened pin) pushes the center parts towards the half shafts, which locks it all together, under no load, when trying to turn, the outside pieces with the teeth only need to overcome the light spring pressure to ratchet(The small springs you watched @JWB install). If you are driving down the trails with the hammer down, and try to turn, I think this will still be locked. I may be wrong though.

Thank you @Neohio, yes you explained it very well. That is a good point you made at the end. If youre wanting to keep the throttle up while turning it may not ratchet. I still want one though. Hehehe Thanks for trying to break it down for me.

 

[Chooglin]

Thank-you, Only part I am not 100% certain of is the last sentence.

I agree, if there is alot of force on the cross pin from the ring gear/carrier , it should remain locked. But if the two wheels are applying more force to the outer rings on the Torq-Locker , one of them has to give/rachet.

 

[Neohio]

I agree, if there is alot of force on the cross pin from the ring gear/carrier , it should remain locked. But if the two wheels are applying more force to the outer rings on the Torq-Locker , one of them has to give/rachet.

The inside wheel when turning under load, may apply more of a counter-action to the cross shaft than output from the pinion, allowing the locker to unlock from the carrier shaft, and allowing the springs to compress, finally allowing the ratchet action.


Have we lost you yet @Bastardchild ?

 

[Husker1]

I agree, if there is alot of force on the cross pin from the ring gear/carrier , it should remain locked. But if the two wheels are applying more force to the outer rings on the Torq-Locker , one of them has to give/rachet.

As long as power is applied it is locked only when off the power or light power does it ratchet.

 

[JWB]

Ever since i watched the install video that @jay_man81 made im wondering even more how these things even work lol. If its supposed to ratchet when you turn a corner because it senses that the tires are wanting to turn at different speeds, then why doesnt it ratchet when you go in a mud hole and it senses one wheel possibly having more traction than the other, like when one wheel hits a submerged root under the mud and the other doesnt. You would think that it would think its turning a corner and start ratcheting and the wheel that hit the root, the traction wheel basically, would start ratcheting, meaning, not pulling, and the wheel that didnt hit the root, basically the wheel with less traction, would keep spinning. I mean, @JWB has said they work like a true locker, and supposedly they never truly 'unlock', they just ratchet but both sides are always engaged. I mean, im not doubting it works at all. Im just amazed i guess at the engineering of it. Im definetly getting one, i gotta get my wife a couple axles first though lol.

I hear you- seriously. Torq-masters does not want us to say 'un-lock' and @jay_man81 kind of explained it incorrectly. Here's the deal: When you turn, let's use a full circle as an example... If you put paint on your tire treads, and gently make a full circle with the machine, the outside tires will draw a bigger circle than the inside tires. In other words, the outside tires have to travel further than inside tires. The auto-locker will allow the outside wheel to overrun the inside wheel, if there isn't much power being applied to the diff. If you try to make the full circle with a bit of power, it will lock up like a spool. I don't like to use the word 'senses' when we talk about a mechanical operation- so here's what's going on in there: The middle section of the locker has a 'cam' gear on each side of the cross pin. You have to understand that it's the cross pin that is actually driving everything that drives the axles, whether you have the spider gears in there, or a spool, or an auto-locker. So, the two cam gears are pushed apart by the ramps on the cam gears and pushed towards the axle gears keeping them engaged at all times, BUT, under light load, there isn't as much force pushing the cam gears into the axle gears so the precisely machined engagement 'teeth' will allow one wheel to over-run the other, because the lack of torque pushing that particular cam gear towards the axle gear will allow the ramps on the engagement teeth to overcome the cam gears force, and, click-click-click, it 'ratchets' allowing that wheel to turn faster than the other wheel, but, there isn't enough clearance to allow both to disengage at the same time, so the wheel with traction can never slip because 1st, there isn't enough clearance in the unit to allow both cam gears to disengage at the same time, and the cam gear that has torque applied is forcing the engagement teeth together. That's what the 'spin-test' proves. I know the auto-locker looks simple, but, in operation and construction, it's actually very complex to get it to work properly- the cam angles, engagement tooth profile, spring tension, and clearances have to be insanely precise for the unit to operate as amazing as it does. If you had ever tried one of this style of lockers 20 years ago, you would probably have been as skeptical as I was about what to expect. As far as operation- Torq-masters has nailed it with this one.

None of the explanations I've seen have explained clearly how this works-I.M.H.O. I think I'll do a video when the heat-treated unit arrives. I hope this is helpful

 

[Chooglin]

It's a spool with a built-in weak link.........lol

 

[Chooglin]

Maybe someone from Torq-Masters need to get on here and set us "All" straight on how this works.

 

[luckymike]

So when you get one wheel in the air,that wheel begins to ratchet which give the other wheel the tongue(power)???

 

[luckymike]

Fricken spell check.torque not tongue!!!

 

[Neohio]

So when you get one wheel in the air,that wheel begins to ratchet which give the other wheel the tongue(power)???

With one wheel in the air, it will stay locked together. Ratcheting only happens under zero load, or light throttle, like off idle to 1,000rpm load.

Edit, To edit your original post, turn your phone sideways and an edit button should magically appear.

 

[TeamCheap]

It's simply MAGIC , we don't really need to know how it works just that it does work.

 

[Husker1]

I’ve had an Aussie locker in the rear of my Jeep for 30,000 miles and if power is on locked no or light power ratchet. My Jeep will teeter totter in 2 wd so they work. But they also ratchet under no load around corners but step on the gas and you will know it works because you will have to turn the wheel to compensate for it.

 

[Yota87]

Here is a video with good example on how a ratchet locker works.

 

[Bastardchild]

The inside wheel when turning under load, may apply more of a counter-action to the cross shaft than output from the pinion, allowing the locker to unlock from the carrier shaft, and allowing the springs to compress, finally allowing the ratchet action.


Have we lost you yet @Bastardchild ?

You lost me at "The inside wheel..." lol. Just kidding. Thank you sir.

 

[Bastardchild]

I hear you- seriously. Torq-masters does not want us to say 'un-lock' and @jay_man81 kind of explained it incorrectly. Here's the deal: When you turn, let's use a full circle as an example... If you put paint on your tire treads, and gently make a full circle with the machine, the outside tires will draw a bigger circle than the inside tires. In other words, the outside tires have to travel further than inside tires. The auto-locker will allow the outside wheel to overrun the inside wheel, if there isn't much power being applied to the diff. If you try to make the full circle with a bit of power, it will lock up like a spool. I don't like to use the word 'senses' when we talk about a mechanical operation- so here's what's going on in there: The middle section of the locker has a 'cam' gear on each side of the cross pin. You have to understand that it's the cross pin that is actually driving everything that drives the axles, whether you have the spider gears in there, or a spool, or an auto-locker. So, the two cam gears are pushed apart by the ramps on the cam gears and pushed towards the axle gears keeping them engaged at all times, BUT, under light load, there isn't as much force pushing the cam gears into the axle gears so the precisely machined engagement 'teeth' will allow one wheel to over-run the other, because the lack of torque pushing that particular cam gear towards the axle gear will allow the ramps on the engagement teeth to overcome the cam gears force, and, click-click-click, it 'ratchets' allowing that wheel to turn faster than the other wheel, but, there isn't enough clearance to allow both to disengage at the same time, so the wheel with traction can never slip because 1st, there isn't enough clearance in the unit to allow both cam gears to disengage at the same time, and the cam gear that has torque applied is forcing the engagement teeth together. That's what the 'spin-test' proves. I know the auto-locker looks simple, but, in operation and construction, it's actually very complex to get it to work properly- the cam angles, engagement tooth profile, spring tension, and clearances have to be insanely precise for the unit to operate as amazing as it does. If you had ever tried one of this style of lockers 20 years ago, you would probably have been as skeptical as I was about what to expect. As far as operation- Torq-masters has nailed it with this one.

None of the explanations I've seen have explained clearly how this works-I.M.H.O. I think I'll do a video when the heat-treated unit arrives. I hope this is helpful

You have went above and beyond @JWB . Thank you sir

 

[JWB]

So when you get one wheel in the air,that wheel begins to ratchet which give the other wheel the tongue(power)???

No. The wheel in the air is still being driven, but if you stopped right there, with one wheel still in the air, got out of the machine and grabbed that wheel you could turn it forward in the direction of travel, by causing the locker to ratchet. If you then had someone continue to drive the machine with that wheel still in the air, you could not stop it because it would then, within a few degrees of rotation, be locked again. The only time the locker ratchets is when one wheel turns faster (overruns) than the drive-train, and with minimal load being applied. The magical part, is how smoothly and instantly this particular auto-locker works.