P1000 Clutches fixed!!???

[JTW]

So you know I toasted my clutches on a hill when my brakes went out.. it's been a few weeks and I've been driving it around the yard waiting for brake lines to come in.. With no brakes I haven't been riding it hard just putting around. Anytime I'm in R,1,3,5 there is an rpm spike of 2000-3000 before it grabs. So I get my brakes fixed and I take it for a spin up the blacktop and back... it's about a mile run. Get home and put it up... I notice it's a little harder to shift thru the ranges but it's doable. So today I'm to take it to the dealer for warranty and I notice yesterday it's not slipping. I figure it's a fluke so this morning I try to MAKE it slip. Won't do it! I ride it probably 5 mikes around put it on hills and steep banks... I can't make it slip at all. Called the dealer and he said he can't do anything if it's not slipping. If it does it again get it to him asap. So here I am... with my Jesus machine wondering what the hell is going on. The dealer seemed to think that the clutches may have gotten dry and seized up. Then when I hammered down on it after the brakes were fixed they let loose. Does this make any sense to anyone???? Here I am thinking the friction material is gone and low and behold she's shifting like a champ again??! Any thoughts???

@Delton @snuffnwhisky @Jshell3 @joeymt33 @CumminsPusher @lee @Hondasxs @JACKAL @ohanacreek

 

[Jshell3]

When my clutch slipped(1-3-5), my brakes worked like a boss. Only way I could get down the trail back to camp.

The only useful information I have... when the dealership mechanic looked my old clutches over, he said he couldn't see much discoloration at all... He wasn't accusing me of lying or anything, but in his mind a bad clutch looks like a bad clutch. Mine had only slipped one half day (and even then, for a short ride) before I took it in to the dealership... so it was the best "bad clutch" he'd seen. Hopefully that helps you feel a little better about a clutch that once slipped. It's not discolored too badly, maybe it's not toast, yet.

 

[Cuoutdoors]

I would say it is extremely unlikely if not impossible for 3 of the gears to slip and the others not slip just because of suppos'd dry clutches. They are all in a oil bath. How long would you say it slipped before the gears caught? May be 1 second... half a second?

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[Jshell3]

Also, You and I and Snuff and CP and Nick tried to do the clutch reset like 20 times and it wouldn't take w/ the "barely slipping clutch".

So DON'T do a clutch reset, or you'll have other shifting issues.
The mechanic told me, ANYTHING out of whack will interfere w/ a clutch reset.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

So you know I toasted my clutches on a hill when my brakes went out.. it's been a few weeks and I've been driving it around the yard waiting for brake lines to come in.. With no brakes I haven't been riding it hard just putting around. Anytime I'm in R,1,3,5 there is an rpm spike of 2000-3000 before it grabs. So I get my brakes fixed and I take it for a spin up the blacktop and back... it's about a mile run. Get home and put it up... I notice it's a little harder to shift thru the ranges but it's doable. So today I'm to take it to the dealer for warranty and I notice yesterday it's not slipping. I figure it's a fluke so this morning I try to MAKE it slip. Won't do it! I ride it probably 5 mikes around put it on hills and steep banks... I can't make it slip at all. Called the dealer and he said he can't do anything if it's not slipping. If it does it again get it to him asap. So here I am... with my Jesus machine wondering what the hell is going on. The dealer seemed to think that the clutches may have gotten dry and seized up. Then when I hammered down on it after the brakes were fixed they let loose. Does this make any sense to anyone???? Here I am thinking the friction material is gone and low and behold she's shifting like a champ again??! Any thoughts???

@Delton @snuffnwhisky @Jshell3 @joeymt33 @CumminsPusher @lee @Hondasxs @JACKAL @ohanacreek

This is not exactly the same but we used to have something similar happen on grinding wheels (brake rotors), if the coolant/grinding depth of cut wasn't correct, you would glaze the wheel. Instead of the grinding wheel "biting" and ripping material off the part, it would just "skate" on top of the rotor and burnish it. A clutch is similar in application, just not as aggressive.

Is there a chance that when you were holding on the hill that you glazed the clutch material? So that you had a superhard surface that developed on the friction material and it was what was slipping?

Now you have broken through that glazing via hard shifting now you actually have a good friction material exposed.

We used to deglaze a grinding wheel if it was worth salvaging by roughing it to break through the glazing.

We used to get glazed wheels by taking too light of a cut without enough coolant.

Might it be that having it at a minimal amount of clutch pressure (low RPMS trying to hold it) and a hill (reduced coolant flow) got it hot enough to glaze it but not hot enough to delaminate it?

Just a hypothesis.

 

[JTW]

I would say it is extremely unlikely if not impossible for 3 of the gears to slip and the others not slip just because of suppos'd dry clutches. They are all in a oil bath. How long would you say it slipped before the gears caught? May be 1 second... half a second?

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I'm not sure if because it's a dual clutch pack if it makes a difference.. odd gears would be the rear pack. I'd say 1/2 a second it was pretty quick to hook up.

 

[JTW]

When my clutch slipped, 1-3-5, my brakes worked like a boss. Only way I could get down the trail back to camp.

The only useful information I have... when the dealership mechanic looked my old clutches over, he said he couldn't see much discoloration at all... He wasn't accusing me of lying or anything, but in his mind a bad clutch looks like a bad clutch. Mine had only slipped one half day (and even then, for a short ride) before I took it in to the dealership... so it was the best "bad clutch" he'd seen. Hopefully that helps you feel a little better about a clutch that once slipped. It's not discolored too badly, maybe it's not toast, yet.

Here's to hoping as I have to drive this thing now.

 

[JTW]

This is not exactly the same but we used to have something similar happen on grinding wheels (brake rotors), if the coolant/grinding depth of cut wasn't correct, you would glaze the wheel. Instead of the grinding wheel "biting" and ripping material off the part, it would just "skate" on top of the rotor and burnish it. A clutch is similar in application, just not as aggressive.

Is there a chance that when you were holding on the hill that you glazed the clutch material? So that you had a superhard surface that developed on the friction material and it was what was slipping?

Now you have broken through that glazing via hard shifting now you actually have a good friction material exposed.

We used to deglaze a grinding wheel if it was worth salvaging by roughing it to break through the glazing.

We used to get glazed wheels by taking too light of a cut without enough coolant.

Might it be that having it at a minimal amount of clutch pressure (low RPMS trying to hold it) and a hill (reduced coolant flow) got it hot enough to glaze it but not hot enough to delaminate it?

Just a hypothesis.

Sounds plausible

 

[Jshell3]

This is not exactly the same but we used to have something similar happen on grinding wheels (brake rotors), if the coolant/grinding depth of cut wasn't correct, you would glaze the wheel. Instead of the grinding wheel "biting" and ripping material off the part, it would just "skate" on top of the rotor and burnish it. A clutch is similar in application, just not as aggressive.

Is there a chance that when you were holding on the hill that you glazed the clutch material? So that you had a superhard surface that developed on the friction material and it was what was slipping?

Now you have broken through that glazing via hard shifting now you actually have a good friction material exposed.

We used to deglaze a grinding wheel if it was worth salvaging by roughing it to break through the glazing.

We used to get glazed wheels by taking too light of a cut without enough coolant.

Might it be that having it at a minimal amount of clutch pressure (low RPMS trying to hold it) and a hill (reduced coolant flow) got it hot enough to glaze it but not hot enough to delaminate it?

Just a hypothesis.

HA! I totally said that JTW seared the clutch (like grilling a steak), but deleted it. But that's what I was getting at. Clutches go down b/c of HEAT.

Also, it makes me think vehicles and DOWNHILL grades. People over-using the brakes until the brakes Crystallize, as my dad says.

Brakes (pads/shoes) don't come back from that.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Did you ever drain the oil or pull the filter? Haven't saw "dry and seized up" before. If it was seized it wouldn't disengage the clutch. Maybe take it in and let the dealer do an oil change with you there. Would be good to bring a clean pan to drain it into. Probably want to change the oil before to much riding if any.

 

[lrandy129]

^^^this I would definitely change the oil

 

[CumminsPusher]

Jtw I've had clutches come back a little even enough to ride a bit especially in low. A word of caution though for anyone that does this try to manual shift and skip over the odd gears with very little throttle coming into those gears and keep in mind when they are slipping there's a possibility of more damage and you're heating up your oil which is never good.

 

[JACKAL]

Both times mine slipped consistently and were discolored dark blue from heat. First at 170 miles and then at 1200 miles. Never had braking issues. Don't know what to think about yours reverting to normal.

I recommend you start a Pioneer faith healing revival and start charging $1K to drive people's machines until they are self healed. Start with Crow Hunter & CP.

 

[JTW]

I guess I'll change the oil and filter and see what happens then..

 

[CumminsPusher]

I guess I'll change the oil and filter and see what happens then..

Oil is always a good idea if anything feels funny.


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[popeye]

Oil is always a good idea if anything feels funny.


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but we all know he likes it when things feel funny.

 

[CumminsPusher]

but we all know he likes it when things feel funny.

Lubrication is always key!


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[JACKAL]

but we all know he likes it when things feel funny.

 

[CumminsPusher]

View attachment 45974

Lmao!!!


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[Delton]

Haven't been into a pioneer but have TONS of wet clutch experience. Never heard of one drying up and sticking. Makes no sense. They can sit for a few months and oil degrades and becomes sticky. Then the plates will stick to each other. But as Snuff said, if that happened they wouldn't release at all. In any of those gears. I had a clutch get scalding hot and slip so bad it wouldn't pull me back on the return road. And next morning they were tight again. I agree with changing the oil at dealers. See if he can filter it through some cheese cloth or similar. Other than that, run it like a raped ape. It'll either restore your confidence in them or they slip and dealer replaces. Don't see too many other options.