P500 Help, Pioneer want run!

Dp5hunter

Dp5hunter

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:(What or how do I start a new conversation. My P5 just quit on me and I've checked everything and it will not start. It turns over and it hits a couple of times but will not stay running. I'm not sure wher to check next. Injector fuel pump, I do not get a worning on the screen to look up in the truble shooting stuff in my owners manual. I'm at a loss.:mad::(:confused:
 
Hondasxs

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* I started you a thread and cleared your others.

Did you say you pulled the gas out and replaced? Sounds like bad gas.

Remove air filter and see if she will run using starter fluid. Spray it into the throttle body. One shot ever 2 seconds give or take as it needs to keep running. If it runs, Its fuel issue. Bad gas, pump, injector.

This engine is fairly solid.
In the foreman, you could sink it. Clear the water, level out the oil/water mix in the crank case and it would fire right up.
 
DG Rider

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Does sound like a fuel pump or something with fuel flow.

Are you hearing the pump do its prime at key on? If not, looks like there is a pump fuse (10A) and a relay. Try checking those and/or switching relays around. Also wiring damage, etc. The tank and pump is pretty accessible once you pull the same plastic you pull to get to the oil filter.
Also, if the pump has died, you get sometimes get them to run again for a bit by banging on the tank.

If your getting the prime, try loosening the cap in case the vent has clogged. Beyond that, you really need to pull the line and see whats coming out. The starter fluid trick @Hondasxs mentioned is the easiest way to narrow it down to fuel.
 
Tflynn

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You may also try unhooking both battery cables and touching them together to completely discharge the system. This will in turn reset the the electrical system.
 
TeamCheap

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Dp5hunter any updates ??? did you get it going ???

Remember to run, an engine needs: FUEL - SPARK - COMPRESSION you'll have to figure out which one yours is lacking and why.

So it turns over - does it sound normal when turning over ???

does it have spark ??? have you tried a new spark plug ???

did it run on a shot of starting fluid ??? if it did run did it sound somewhat normal for the few seconds it ran ???

does the oil and anti-freeze look normal ???

If it turns over normally and has good spark but does not run on a shot of starting fluid do a compression check with an actual compression gauge.

Oh just a thought and a long shot but have you blown the carbon out of the exhaust, there is a procedure for that but I doubt it would be that clogged all of a sudden to stop it from running but you haven't checked everything until you've checked everything and fixed it.

Don't leave us hanging we want you up and running.
 
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Tflynn

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The thing that stands out to me is the fact that the machine suddenly quit running, emphasis on suddenly. In my experience that usually points to an electrical problem. Gas doesn’t suddenly go bad (unless water or something contaminated it), an engine doesn’t suddenly lose compression, and air filters don’t suddenly clog (unless you sucked up a plastic bag or something). However electrical components do suddenly fail. Spark plugs foul, sensors fail, wires break or come unplugged. The kicker is that I would expect a sensor failure to trigger an engine code.
 
TeamCheap

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The thing that stands out to me is the fact that the machine suddenly quit running, emphasis on suddenly. In my experience that usually points to an electrical problem. Gas doesn’t suddenly go bad (unless water or something contaminated it), an engine doesn’t suddenly lose compression, and air filters don’t suddenly clog (unless you sucked up a plastic bag or something). However electrical components do suddenly fail. Spark plugs foul, sensors fail, wires break or come unplugged. The kicker is that I would expect a sensor failure to trigger an engine code.
Still have to go through the process of elimination and actually verify what is working to find what is not.

I once had a snowmobile that ran great at idle up to about 3/4 throttle then it would cut out almost like it had a limiter ended up being an ignition wire running under the engine that had rubbed the insulation off and would just lightly short out as the thing vibrated at near top speed.

I had a Chinese dual sport bike that ran great for a hour or so then started just dying randomly but would start after a few minutes of sitting ended up being the vent in the gas cap went bad and was not letting air in the fuel tank fast enough to keep up with the engines fuel consumption.

My wife was riding my blaster, we had just started riding that day and all was well until she said it wasn't running right, it ran but not right we load up go home and I tear into it, it has good spark, ok compression and is getting fuel but somewhat sloppy fuel the carb was wet with fuel, dug a little deeper and found the broken reed valve.

We have a gocart that ran great after I put new gears in it but would run for different random amounts of time sometimes just a few minutes sometimes 20 minutes or so ended up being the gas cap vent had been broken inside and had a tiny check valve ball that actually got down into the fuel tube right as it left the fuel tank and would randomly stop or slow fuel flow.

I've learned not to eliminate anything as the problem until proven that it works as it should.
spark plugs can go bad quickly, compression can go quickly as well with 1 stuck/broke valve, electrical stuff can be a major pain and fuel issues can be any number of things.

A good solid spark still needs to be timed right, the air/fuel mixture needs to be right and the engine has to breath with the right compression to run right
 
Dp5hunter

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Yes gut it running and whent on a long creek ride. From 12pm to 1am and it ran very well all day until about 10 that night it started filling like it was lusing power. But it kept on going pretty strong. Right at 1am it started doing the same thing it did at RRB and started missing progressively worst ontil it simply just stopped running all tugether. Well its in the shop again and it appears to be a problem with fuel suply and that is what we are working with at this point. We changed spark plug, air filter, gasoline, checked injector and fuel pump. So still trouble shooting. :(:mad::oops::confused:
 
Smitty335

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Yes gut it running and whent on a long creek ride. From 12pm to 1am and it ran very well all day until about 10 that night it started filling like it was lusing power. But it kept on going pretty strong. Right at 1am it started doing the same thing it did at RRB and started missing progressively worst ontil it simply just stopped running all tugether. Well its in the shop again and it appears to be a problem with fuel suply and that is what we are working with at this point. We changed spark plug, air filter, gasoline, checked injector and fuel pump. So still trouble shooting. :(:mad::oops::confused:
I know this may sound stupid, but have you checked the gas tank vent? Were you at 18 RRB Take Over? I didn't see you there?
 
TeamCheap

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I know this may sound stupid, but have you checked the gas tank vent? Were you at 18 RRB Take Over? I didn't see you there?
Yeah makes you wonder if some water and crud got into that fuel tank vent hose.
You know people put snorkels on the intake to go in deep water but do they do anything about that fuel tank vent hose that will need to suck air in as fuel is burnt....Hmmm.

I don't think the vent/vent tube is "just a hose" I think there might be a bit more to it, I have not dug into my P5 that far to see what all is attached to the fuel pump/sender/vent plate on top of the fuel tank but I'd bet there is some sort of check valve in there to keep fuel from running out in a rollover situation and it might have crud in it or even be rusty if it is just a steel ball.

Looking at pictures of P500 fuel pumps you can see there is some sort of canister under where the vent hose attaches.
I'd take the vent tube of the fuel tank and place a rag at one end of the tube and blow air through the other end and see if any crud comes out then I 'd look at the rest of the vent, it almost looks like it would come out the top but it might be a puzzle to put back together.
 
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Dp5hunter

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Yeah makes you wonder if some water and crud got into that fuel tank vent hose.
You know people put snorkels on the intake to go in deep water but do they do anything about that fuel tank vent hose that will need to suck air in as fuel is burnt....Hmmm.

I don't think the vent/vent tube is "just a hose" I think there might be a bit more to it, I have not dug into my P5 that far to see what all is attached to the fuel pump/sender/vent plate on top of the fuel tank but I'd bet there is some sort of check valve in there to keep fuel from running out in a rollover situation and it might have crud in it or even be rusty if it is just a steel ball.

Looking at pictures of P500 fuel pumps you can see there is some sort of canister under where the vent hose attaches.
I'd take the vent tube of the fuel tank and place a rag at one end of the tube and blow air through the other end and see if any crud comes out then I 'd look at the rest of the vent, it almost looks like it would come out the top but it might be a puzzle to put back together.
I have not checked my fuel yet but I'll check it tomorrow to be sure. And the injector itself for any trash. And thank you all for the meany Idias as to what it may be.
 
Dp5hunter

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Ok got it ronning again and it appears to have been some kind of trash in the injector. Clead it out and put it back and it appears to be running normal again. But had problems with it idealing and found that the idel control thing had come out of setting and riset it and again it appears to be running fine for now. I will be riding this weekend so I'll let ya'll know how it whent.
 
TeamCheap

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Ok got it ronning again and it appears to have been some kind of trash in the injector. Clead it out and put it back and it appears to be running normal again. But had problems with it idealing and found that the idel control thing had come out of setting and riset it and again it appears to be running fine for now. I will be riding this weekend so I'll let ya'll know how it whent.
Great, hope that's all it was and you have a fun problem free weekend of riding.

Wednesday I finally got my chevy express AWD van back together and running after installing new valve stem seals and a new O-ring on the oil pickup tube, what a PITA that all was.The van has high miles and was smoking at start up and after taking off from a stop and the oil pan inside looked like the La Brea tar pits, a new engine is in its future but I want to squeeze a bit more out of this one if I can.

Thursday we our headed up to our shack in the woods where I'll install the locker in our P5 after I finish the electrical wiring in the garage for the new LED lights. A Saturday morning ride with a newly installed locker should be a fun ride for us.
 
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DG Rider

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Ok got it ronning again and it appears to have been some kind of trash in the injector. Clead it out and put it back and it appears to be running normal again. But had problems with it idealing and found that the idel control thing had come out of setting and riset it and again it appears to be running fine for now. I will be riding this weekend so I'll let ya'll know how it whent.
I would be very curious as to the condition of the pickup filter in the fuel tank. It should stop any trash.

And the "idle control thing" (AKA-the Idle Air Control Valve) ? How did it come out of setting? Something don't make sense here...
 
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Dp5hunter

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Great, hope that's all it was and you have a fun problem free weekend of riding.

Wednesday I finally got my chevy express AWD van back together and running after installing new valve stem seals and a new O-ring on the oil pickup tube, what a PITA that all was.The van has high miles and was smoking at start up and after taking off from a stop and the oil pan inside looked like the La Brea tar pits, a new engine is in its future but I want to squeeze a bit more out of this one if I can.

Thursday we our headed up to our shack in the woods where I'll install the locker in our P5 after I finish the electrical wiring in the garage for the new LED lights. A Saturday morning ride with a newly installed locker should be a fun ride for us.
I would like to ride with u northern bonch someday especially bicous I want to ride with other P500 riders.
 
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Dp5hunter

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I would be very curious as to the condition of the pickup filter in the fuel tank. It should stop any trash.

And the "idle control thing" (AKA-the Idle Air Control Valve) ? How did it come out of setting? Something don't make sense here...
The idle air control valve scruse in and out and I have no idea how it gut out of wak but it is working now.
 
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TeamCheap

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The idle air control valve scruse in and out and I have no idea how it gut out of wak but it is working now.

I'm wondering.....do you play in mud holes and water with your P5 ??? because if you do I could see how stuff could into places that you'd not normally see it get into.
 
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Dp5hunter

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I'm wondering.....do you play in mud holes and water with your P5 ??? because if you do I could see how stuff could into places that you'd not normally see it get into.
Yes lots of water at the creek but not at RRB.
 

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