New machine with milky sub trans oil

[Jonpin]

Hi,
I bought my Talon new last weekend and only drove it around the block with the family the day I got it (It has 4 miles on it I put 1 of them) . Someone suggested to check all the fluids and I found the sub trans dip stick just sitting on the hole kinda wedged in. Opon checking sub trans oil it's white which makes me think there is water in it. I immediately called the sales guy and he said it's common for assembly oil to make it milky, I don't want to say he's lieing or doesn't know what he is talking about but the engine oil looks like oil. I was told there is a way to log this with Honda and to check here. Any help would be appreciated or please if there's nothing to worrie about that's great. I have a gallon of oil on the way because I don't feel safe to drive it.

 

[HBarlow]

"Milky" may mean different things to different people. In my experience, "milky" normally suggests at least a small amount of water intrusion but perhaps it's normal.

Oil is cheap - extremely cheap compared to a sub-transmission rebuild.

For peace of mind drain and refill the oil. Be careful and read the procedure. It's easy and not uncommon for a newbie to drain the sub-transmission and not refill it with fresh oil.

 

[Remington]

Its normal. Im a generator tech and see this all the time with first oil changes. Most of the time its assembly grease thats harmless. Seldomly its water/moisture fr rom the oil breather. So Forget about it and ride.

Welcome from Michigan BTW
Please do an intro thread when u get a sec and post full pics of the rig

 

[JenElio]

Hi,
I bought my Talon new last weekend and only drove it around the block with the family the day I got it (It has 4 miles on it I put 1 of them) . Someone suggested to check all the fluids and I found the sub trans dip stick just sitting on the hole kinda wedged in. Opon checking sub trans oil it's white which makes me think there is water in it. I immediately called the sales guy and he said it's common for assembly oil to make it milky, I don't want to say he's lieing or doesn't know what he is talking about but the engine oil looks like oil. I was told there is a way to log this with Honda and to check here. Any help would be appreciated or please if there's nothing to worrie about that's great. I have a gallon of oil on the way because I don't feel safe to drive it.

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I don't think it's anything to worry about like Remi stated. But for your peace of mind drain it into a clean container and inspect it. If it does happen to be mixed with water then I would keep a good record of it by emailing your dealer and taking pictures of the drained oil. Save all the emails to and from dealer for future references, there might be another way to document this with Honda but I'm not sure.

Anyways, welcome to the club from South Florida. Post some pics of the buggy 👍🏼

 

[TripleB]

Looks over full to me. With the cap not being on and looking over full, I'm betting it has some water in it. There has been several machines run hundreds of miles with no oil in the subtrans and no damage. Usually after an oil change by a dealer with a tech that doesn't know what he is doing. I would just change it, for piece of mind. It's only about $15 worth of oil. Or go on good ride and check it when you're done. If still milky, it's definitely got water in it. If running hundreds of miles with no oil doesn't damage them, I'm sure 1 ride with some rain water mixed with oil won't either.

 

[Jerryg]

My guess is it's just a bit of condensation from humidity. The machine could have been sitting a while.

I would change it just to be safe but it would probably just evaporate after a good ride.

 

[CID]

Welcome from the once great state of Colorado. We're gonna need photos, it's rule #4 here.

Both of my Talons were delivered with 2/3 of the oil capacity in the sub trans, not happy with my dealer or Honda.

None of us will probably ever know if there's water or not but you caught it long before any damage could happen. Like others said, change it and ride the wheels off it. I recommend that you get the Honda oil with moly for the sub trans ONLY. It'll help the shift dogs engage without the dreaded BANG - bad juju. There are a couple of photos of that oil in the link below -

Also a stickie in the General Talon 1000 Discussion forum -

New Talon Owners - First Things to Know and Check

I'm new to the SxS world - damn, there's a lot to learn, hence this thread - maybe we can make it easier for others new to the Talon and put it in one thread. 1. If you're a motorcyclist, you already know that sometimes your bike won't shift into gear at a stop without rocking the bike back and...

hondasxs.com

 

[TxDoc]

Welcome Jonpin

You've already seen why this forum should come as OEM with every Honda SxS

Sent from my motorola edge plus 2023 using Tapatalk

 

[Mopower58]

Looks over full to me. With the cap not being on and looking over full, I'm betting it has some water in it. There has been several machines run hundreds of miles with no oil in the subtrans and no damage. Usually after an oil change by a dealer with a tech that doesn't know what he is doing. I would just change it, for piece of mind. It's only about $15 worth of oil. Or go on good ride and check it when you're done. If still milky, it's definitely got water in it. If running hundreds of miles with no oil doesn't damage them, I'm sure 1 ride with some rain water mixed with oil won't either.

Just like Triple B said, with the dipstick not seated it probably did have water in it. Just change the oil and ride. 2 things will make oil appear milky, water and air (foaming).

 

[HBarlow]

Just like Triple B said, with the dipstick not seated it probably did have water in it. Just change the oil and ride. 2 things will make oil appear milky, water and air (foaming).

A good point. Do you know - if oil level is (over)filled to the top of the threaded fill opening with the dipstick removed, will the oil level be high enough to be churned by the rotating gears thus causing foaming?

 

[CID]

A good point. Do you know - if oil level is (over)filled to the top of the threaded fill opening with the dipstick removed, will the oil level be high enough to be churned by the rotating gears thus causing foaming?

Interesting question - 🤔

It looks like the dipstick calls for about half as much oil as would filling it to the top of threaded fill opening and there's still much more air volume remaining above that, I don't think it would make any difference, contrary to some feedback reports of noticeable problems when overfilled. Having looked at it now, I don't think overfilling can cause any problems, assuming that a guy couldn't fill it above the threaded opening.

First off, I don't have any idea what causes an oil to foam and, as far as I know, it's never been a problem in my machinery. The oil has to be deep enough to at least partially submerge the gears, there's no oil pump in the sub trans so it's strictly splash lubrication. Since the gears are already spinning in oil, I don't see where increasing the depth of submersion would change the chance of foaming. IMO, YMMV, yada yada yada

 

[hondabob]

Like the guys said, drain the sub trans oil. The Honda full synthetic 10w30 or any full synthetic motorcycle oil is a good choice. I use mobile one 10w40 motorcycle oil. With no oil the sub trans will start squealing at around 20 miles. After letting it cool it will still go another 20 miles to get back home. Everything inside will be damaged and needs to be replaced. By just adding oil it will still be useable but not for very long. I think you can count on your sub trans to be just like new with no damage. The owner's manual says to change the sub trans oil every 2 years regardless of miles. For me that would be at around 25,000 miles so I change it every 4,000 miles but do a break in oil change at 1,200 miles with the engine oil change.

 

[ODAMO]

Thats definitely water in the oil and the misinstalled dipstick is evidence of how it got in there.

 

[HBarlow]

Interesting question - 🤔

It looks like the dipstick calls for about half as much oil as would filling it to the top of threaded fill opening and there's still much more air volume remaining above that, I don't think it would make any difference, contrary to some feedback reports of noticeable problems when overfilled. Having looked at it now, I don't think overfilling can cause any problems, assuming that a guy couldn't fill it above the threaded opening.

First off, I don't have any idea what causes an oil to foam and, as far as I know, it's never been a problem in my machinery. The oil has to be deep enough to at least partially submerge the gears, there's no oil pump in the sub trans so it's strictly splash lubrication. Since the gears are already spinning in oil, I don't see where increasing the depth of submersion would change the chance of foaming. IMO, YMMV, yada yada yada

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Thanks. Your explanation sounds like an engineering or strong mechanical background.

I suppose my question and your explanation are relevant only as long as the machine is flat on level pavement. Any lean or tilt off level would submerge the gears in lubricant.

 

[john790]

When in doubt drain it out.

 

[Todd627]

When in doubt drain it out.

TWSS

 

[Remington]

@Jonpin
Sorry i didnt do a pm on a new gen today to show you exactly what you have and that it is commonly normal on a new engine and nothing to call Honda about. Looks like I may have one in my schedule tomorrow. If I do, ill post a pic for you.

 

[CID]

Thanks. Your explanation sounds like an engineering or strong mechanical background.

I suppose my question and your explanation are relevant only as long as the machine is flat on level pavement. Any lean or tilt off level would submerge the gears in lubricant.

I took an aptitude test when I was a boy, maybe 10. The bar graph showed my mechanical aptitude to be 4 or 5 times the next closest runner up. I'm a natural mechanic by DNA. My career switched from electro-mechanical, at which I excelled, to electronics, at which I didn't excel. 😢 But you don't just walk out on 15 years toward your retirement, so I adapted a well as I could ... and I HATED it. :-| Electronics suck when you're a tactile, hands on kinda guy.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the gears are sitting in oil when completely level and stationary and wouldn't depend on lean or tilt. How deep? - no idea.

 

[Scoop]

I would perform an oil change now just for S&G, but you likely don't need to.

If you are really anal and want to know what's in it (grease, water, whatever), send a sample off to Blackstone Labs for standard oil analysis. They will send you the free test kit (to collect your sample). Take the sample mid-drain.

Personally, I'd drain, refill, and then wait to see what it looks like after a while. Either @TripleB (water intrusion due to improperly seated dipstick) or @Remington (assembly lube) could cause that.

My '23 Talon was delivered with the sub-trans oil low.

 

[CID]

...

My '23 Talon was delivered with the sub-trans oil low.

This REALLY, REALLY p!sses me off. My 2020 (stolen) was delivered with low sub trans oil and so was my 2021.