Interesting. It looks like an Alemite fitting threaded to a football inflating needle.
D
I get these Needles at napa. Use them with an air powered grease gun on the sand car cv joints
My Talon's left front differential seal started leaking at about 300 miles.Turns out this is a common issue, Honda screwed up so many installs that I waited 5 weeks because the seals were on backorder. it's since been learned that it probably wasn't an assembly error (cutting the seal with the axle splines) as suspected.
The whole story is here, including the video:
Talon Front diff vent info
Hope this might help someone Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalkhondasxs.com
PaulF posted -
He (the tester in the video) removed the stock hose from the front diff and applied vacuum and it held (it should not). That shows that there is a plug somewhere in the vent line and it has been verified MANY times that the plug is at the nipple that goes into the frame (too much glue applied at the factory). Not sure why the dealers are not aware of this, it has been discovered by many owners and unplugging the nipple has proven to slow and even stop seal leaks (both front and rear). Honda just keeps replacing seals, they have even released an "updated" seal and not having the dealers check this simple problem. Mind boggling!!!
View attachment 210794
The vent line terminates in the frame rail, right front, and where the glue plug is on many of them.
View attachment 230844
As seen from the RF tire.
View attachment 230845
If you want to check yours for vacuum as shown in the video, the vent line is on the left side of the front diff above the filler nut.
View attachment 230846
CID you did a great job for newer owners. Great pictures also. I have 140 miles on mine and am getting front diff seepage. I checked my vent hoses and nipples at about 30 miles and all was clear. Drill bits into each end. I'm not concerned yet. Many oil seals will seep until surfaces wear in. I didn't vacuum check the frame. Others told me there are many other holes in the frame that will vent. I bought into that for the time. May check when I have more time, or just drill a high hole in the frame.My Talon's left front differential seal started leaking at about 300 miles.
The whole story is here, including the video:
Talon Front diff vent info
Hope this might help someone Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
PaulF posted -
He (the tester in the video) removed the stock hose from the front diff and applied vacuum and it held (it should not). That shows that there is a plug somewhere in the vent line and it has been verified MANY times that the plug is at the nipple that goes into the frame (too much glue applied at the factory). Not sure why the dealers are not aware of this, it has been discovered by many owners and unplugging the nipple has proven to slow and even stop seal leaks (both front and rear). Honda just keeps replacing seals, they have even released an "updated" seal and not having the dealers check this simple problem. Mind boggling!!!
View attachment 210794
The vent line terminates in the frame rail, right front, and where the glue plug is on many of them.
View attachment 230844
As seen from the RF tire.
View attachment 230845
If you want to check yours for vacuum as shown in the video, the vent line is on the left side of the front diff above the filler nut.
View attachment 230846
CID
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Thank you. Good point on a seal needing to seat before it will seal.
I mentioned elsewhere - I studied welding as a hobby for several years and was on numerous welding sites; we had several members who were 'the best of the best' up to making roll cages for NASCAR. I asked about closed welds on a cage and was told all cages are vented to atmosphere 'somewhere'. For an entire cage, there might only be one visible hole, all others could be hidden within joints, out of sight like an internal maze with one exit. The reason is that you can't close the last weld because the heated air inside a pipe will blow out the weld in the very last section, in effect ruining the weld and failing its certification. It isn't something you need to worry about but an extra 1/4" hole won't hurt anything either.
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CID
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I visited Pirate4x4 but never signed up so it wasn't me.
When I first bought my SXS 6 weeks ago I started reading and saving to file, posts that could help me in the future. Usually things I was unfamiliar with., I have a few saves from CID. Many thanks to you. Reading some of these this morning, I reread this post about springs. I only have 170 miles experience so far, but need to start experimenting with springs and sway bars. I doesn't do any good to read unless you try changes. I like fast, but don't see where I will be doing much of that near Phoenix. Eventually I may get to the sand dunes. But it wouldn't be my focus. Riding in rocky areas with off camber is what I would like to set up for. What type of setting (springs and swaybar) would make me feel more secure riding when going up a steep off camber hill? I'm just looking for a starting point, and prefer to go in the improved direction vs my normal wrong direction.Crossover rings and tender spring info -
Although not as 'firm' as the X (which has no crossover rings), the R won't be accused of being undersprung. Without buying new springs we can back off (raise) the crossover rings, keeping us on the softer tender springs longer. I've seen that we have up to 25 turns before the tender springs start to coil bind and we don't want that to happen, it kills springs. (Note: the next post shows that 20 turns up on the rear crossover rings is max for my unit) Although I bought the Talon to explore the desert, Covid kept me home, my initial rides have been in the ROCKY
So, after initial break in and getting bounced around a bit, I decided to raise the crossover rings 10 turns on the front and 15 rear to start. After a successful 40 mile trial decided to go up another 5 turns at each end - so I'm at 15 turns front and 20 rear. I like it and it 'seems' to ride better.
How to know if we're coil binding? Put a zip tie around an individual spring coil on all 4 tenders. If you cut or dent that zip tie, you've gone too far.
Be sure to mark each crossover ring before you start so you can count turns. Mark them full width as it's hard to see between the spring coils - I used a gray felt tip for good contrast. Be sure to clean the shock body threads well, they're aluminum and galling will ruin your day - I used an air compressor after a good hosing.
I'm pretty sure I don't have 25 turns available in the rear, there's only about 1/8" left before the top crossover will bottom against the top of the shock (about 2 turns). There's about 1/4" remaining on the fronts. Note that these two dimensions have nothing to do with coil bind, I don't know when that might happen - it might not on my unit, I may run out of 'up' before coil bind.
If I've made a mistake or someone would like to add more information, please feel free to do so. I'm pretty new to SxSs and didn't see much info on the crossovers and tender springs, a quick look through the service manual showed nothing about either. 🤔
An important note - doing this might increase bucking up in the rear, so proceed at your own risk. If you're a high speed rider this might not work as well for you as it does at my lower velocities.
ETA (edited to add) - zip tied tender spring coil and gray felt tip marked crossover ring (the gray goes across both rings) - you can also see that there's about 1/4" left before the crossover ring tops out (right front).
View attachment 205210
From post #18 I have several questions. 1. Could the NAPA hose #8907 be connected to the tube going into the airbox instead of the Teryx tube? And then the 3" x 12" tube up through the body. 2. Cutting a 3" hole through the body parts seems to leave very little strength to prevent breakage. Has that been a problem? 3. The Teryx tube seems to have a 1" tube coming off after the 90 degree turn. Is it used to support the assembly or could it be cut off and capped?Honda blew it with the Talon's air intake location, it's under the right rear fender and although behind an inner fender, that inner isn't sealed so a LOT of dirt enters the air horn. Honda's intent was for the intake to be the two side vents but they're in direct line of the RF tire. To add to those mistakes, Honda decided to use a pleated paper air filter which is, for the most part, not reusable/cleanable like the foam filters used in dirt bikes and they're ~$45. It's common for them to be filthy at 200 miles.
fwiw: 🤔
The following idea is copied directly from @hondabob , the only difference is that I didn't run my filter up to the roof like his version. I chose his idea over an aftermarket snorkel kit like the SYA Warrior because Bob's idea keeps the goofy looking air intake chamber and the SYA kit replaces it. I think the stock chamber is either for tuning or noise control and that's why I wanted to keep it, goofy doesn't bother me.
Here's the intro - (all info came from Bob's 2500, 6000 and 10,000 mile reports in the General Talon forum. All the pics you need are there.). The 3" plastic tube is the belt drive intake tube from the first year Teryx 4 seater (2012?), Part # 14073-0716. If you want to run up to the roof, you might need two of them at <$20 each + shipping; depending on where you want the filter (bottom photo shows one tube). The 3" rubber connecting hose is a NAPA turbo hose, part # 8907 at $55-$60. It has a 90* bend that can be used at the roofline.
Final result with a Uni 3" pod filter (UP-6300ST)
View attachment 210796
The rubber connection is cut from NAPA part #8907 which has a 90* bend that can be used if you run your filter up under the roof.
View attachment 210797
The stock air intake, photo thx to Lil_Steve. The 'hat' is held on with one push pin. You can see the wire lying on the hat that you don't want to cut when drilling for the snorkel riser.
View attachment 219113
The air horn, visible above, has to be trimmed down to 3". This is HondaBob's photo - the plastic is very pliable and unlikely to break so using snips works well for the initial down sizing. I used a drum sanding wheel in my Dremel to do the final trim - note that you'll be removing almost all of the air horn.
View attachment 228943
Partially cut -
View attachment 228944
This is showing the web, on the left and right, that will need to be 'lowered' to give room for the clamp. I ended up notching the hose a bit on the left since the hose is tipped that direction.
View attachment 228947
The money shot, note that you don't have to remove the fender; it's quite complicated and I'm not sure it's worth the effort given that the photos show everything.
View attachment 230042
Filthy dirty at 1066 miles but I imagine the stock filter still looks like new. I ride solo so your results may vary.
View attachment 210798
This is the Teryx belt drive intake tube showing how I cut mine to make two passenger seat snorkels. It's from the first year 4 seat Teryx (2012) part # 14073-0716.
View attachment 211039
The hole through the body was defined by the 3 edges marked by arrows. The tube barely fit and why I didn't use a hole saw which would have been a bit too large IMO. Done 'properly' (crowding the edges at the two lower arrows), you'll have about 1/8" at the top arrow before cutting through that edge.
View attachment 211040
How I got there using a rasp bit in a drill, carefully - taped, used the Teryx tube to locate hole, marked, drilled, rasped. As slow and crude as this was, I was able to position the hole exactly where I wanted it, a fraction at a time. Caution - there's a wire under there, don't cut it.
View attachment 211041
Rasp bit used but any abrasive bit will probably work just fine.
Another HondaBob photo showing how he ran his up to the roof line, safe from rain. He has since moved on to a pleated filter. It also shows the 8907 Napa hose, also used at the air box connection, out of sight.
View attachment 228948
PhilCod found straight 3" hose if you don't need the 90* bend of the NAPA 8907.
3" Inch ID 12" LONG STRAIGHT 3-PLY 3PLY SILICONE COUPLER PIPE/TUBE HOSE BLACK | eBay
CID
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New to SxSs myself and why I started this thread so I can't answer these questions, they're probably better in a main forum where everyone will have a chance to see it. I'm usually a conservative rider but have my moments, for that reason, I have quick disconnect sway bar links, the best of both worlds.
Honda Talon Quick Release Sway Bar Link - Andy McCoy Drag Racing Parts, Composites, & Chassis (andymccoyracecars.com)
1. If you want to remove the stock air intake chamber and replace it with the NAPA 8907 and then use a longer section of the Teryx tube to extend above the body panel, yes, maybe but you'll have to figure that out yourself. I copied HondaBob's idea completely with the exception of I didn't run my filter up to the roof, thereby only using about 10" of the Teryx tube.
2. Connecting a 10" piece of the Teryx tube directly to the stock air intake chamber is very secure especially if you cut the hole in the body panel slowly, constantly checking the fit and stopping when the tube is a press fit into the body panel. I you plug the NAPA 8907 directly into the airbox then you will probably have to support the entire assembly. The stock air intake chamber is the structure in Bob's design. If you choose to take off in a different direction YOYO (yer on yer own).
This is all there is - stock air intake chamber at the bottom, cut piece of NAPA 8907 coupler, 10" piece of Teryx tube (one half of it, cut lines shown below)
3. The entire right end of the Teryx tube is discarded.
I have several questions before I do my modifications. CID shared great photos and directions. But until I looked under the Talon, I thought the Teryx tube was replacing the stock tube, leaving me lost. Finally, I saw the light.
1. To simplify my understanding, did you just remove the intake tube with the 90 degree elbow and cut back on the "Hat" then extend up through the body?
2. What are the 3 air chambers that are attached to the stock intake tube? Smooth out air flow and support the tube?
3. It looks like the cut hole weakens some structural integrity. Has this caused any problems for you afterwards?
4. I have a rear window and won't go to the roof. Would the Uni filter need any additional support?
5. I would prefer a 4" Uni filter with more surface area and life. Hondabob said "I made a snorkel for my buddy's RZR and he bought the filter from the AutoZone store in Wickenburg. It comes with a sleeve so it fits a 3 inch tube. The filter is for cars and it will fit a 4 inch tube too." It sounds like the sleeve is 1/2" thick. Does nayone have a number for that filter?
6. Is a 3" hump connector used below the the new cut hole in the body? Or does it need something stiffer to stabilize the filter?
1. To simplify my understanding, did you just remove the intake tube with the 90 degree elbow and cut back on the "Hat" then extend up through the body?
2. What are the 3 air chambers that are attached to the stock intake tube? Smooth out air flow and support the tube?
3. It looks like the cut hole weakens some structural integrity. Has this caused any problems for you afterwards?
4. I have a rear window and won't go to the roof. Would the Uni filter need any additional support?
5. I would prefer a 4" Uni filter with more surface area and life. Hondabob said "I made a snorkel for my buddy's RZR and he bought the filter from the AutoZone store in Wickenburg. It comes with a sleeve so it fits a 3 inch tube. The filter is for cars and it will fit a 4 inch tube too." It sounds like the sleeve is 1/2" thick. Does nayone have a number for that filter?
6. Is a 3" hump connector used below the the new cut hole in the body? Or does it need something stiffer to stabilize the filter?
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CID
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1. Yes - remove the intake chamber, cut down the airhorn to 3" O.D., reinstall the intake chamber, install short rubber tube splice cut from NAPA 8907, install 1/2 of Teryx tube, install pod filter, clamp. You do NOT have to remove the Talon fender as shown in my photos, it's overly complicated and the photos show everything you need to know. Don't cut the wire directly under the body panel where you're cutting the hole.
2. The three air chambers tune the intake pulses, I've read an article on them in general, it's a very complex system and why I like that Bob's idea keeps that intake in place. There may also be a tab (or 2) used for another push pin to secure it in place.
3. It's simply a hole in a body panel, nothing structural is affected.
4. No, my Uni is free standing and it's very secure - just make the hole in the body panel a snug fit.
5. The recommended Uni (UP-6300ST) is about 4-1/4" O.D. I just bought an SATV rear window and it's going to be closer to the Uni than I'd hoped. Anything larger than 4-1/4" will be even closer. I bought a larger Uni for more surface area but it has a hard plastic end on it and it will be difficult to squeeze out the excess oil and now it'll be too close to the rear window so I won't use it.
Surface area - the Uni has FAR LESS surface area than the stock filter but the stock filter is lucky to last 400 miles. I ran my Uni 1066 miles before its first cleaning, yes it was filthy but oiled foam works just fine when dirty and why it's been the primary filter medium in dirt bikes for decades. Wanting to run a rear window limits the O.D. available.
Copy the picture of the pleated filter Bob's using, take it to AutoZone and they'll know which one it is. If it's larger than 4-1/4" O.D. it will be very close to your rear window. Without a rear window, the slight bend in the Teryx tube can be rotated so the Uni stands almost straight up, which looks best IMO. But with the rear window, I'll have to rotate the tube to lean the filter rearward, not as aesthetic, again IMO.
6. Using the NAPA 8907, which is a reinforced rubber hose for turbo applications, it's robust enough for this use. That plus a snug fit for the Teryx tube through the body panel is all that's needed. For that matter, Bob uses a hole saw for the 3" hole resulting in a loose fit without problems. The weakest link is the structure of the Uni itself and they've been around for decades without issues.
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Thanks again CID. Great fast response. You're making my new SXS modifications a whole lot easier.
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Just paying it forward - when you're new, learn; as you learn, teach. 👍
B
C
These can be cleaned and re-oiled when necessary. Like Hondabob said, I will probably just pitch it and buy another one after a few thousand miles. They also have some 3" connectors for $9.99. I used one of these to connect the 2 Terrex pipes above the body, just because it looks slightly nicer than a piece of the NAPA hose. I used a piece of the NAPA hose on top of the original air intake. I agree that I wanted to keep the original air intake tube. I am sure that Honda had a reason for designing it like that.
I have a Super ATV rear window on the way. I will have to cut it out for the air inlet tube going into the cab. I will also need to figure out a way to attach it to the upper roll bar, but that shouldn't be a big deal. I want the rear window and the inside air intake, so I will make it work!
FWIW, I agree that structural integrity is not an issue. I used a 2 3/4" hole saw, then enlarged the hole with a burr to get a snug fit. The hole will not be directly above the Honda intake tube, so a little bit of angling is required, but it isn't a problem.
ETA: There are a couple of pictures in post 55.
Tom
CID has done a great job of answering your questions. I happen to still have the box for the air filter I used, which I believe is the same as Hondabob used. AND, I even purchased it at the AutoZone in Wickenburg! Anyway, it is a Spectre #8132. This one is red, but they have them in several colors, including blue and black. This was priced on the shelf at $29.99. I didn't argue when they charged me $19.99.
These can be cleaned and re-oiled when necessary. Like Hondabob said, I will probably just pitch it and buy another one after a few thousand miles. They also have some 3" connectors for $9.99. I used one of these to connect the 2 Terrex pipes above the body, just because it looks slightly nicer than a piece of the NAPA hose. I used a piece of the NAPA hose on top of the original air intake. I agree that I wanted to keep the original air intake tube. I am sure that Honda had a reason for designing it like that.I have a Super ATV rear window on the way. I will have to cut it out for the air inlet tube going into the cab. I will also need to figure out a way to attach it to the upper roll bar, but that shouldn't be a big deal. I want the rear window and the inside air intake, so I will make it work!
FWIW, I agree that structural integrity is not an issue. I used a 2 3/4" hole saw, then enlarged the hole with a burr to get a snug fit. The hole will not be directly above the Honda intake tube, so a little bit of angling is required, but it isn't a problem.
ETA: There are a couple of pictures in post 55.
Tom
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B
For future people interested in doing this. I was looking for this thinking it was a small brass tubing nipple, for venting. It is a black plastic gas filler tube liner. Guessing from the couch, it's about 2" O.D. and about 6" long. One awl, a small screwdriver, and a pair of pliers should have this removed in less than a minute.
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I picked up my Talon in February 2020 and planned on a desert trip in March, I needed a spare tire and rack. My choice was the Dirt Road Fabrication bed extender/spare and RotoPax carrier but it wasn't available for the 2 seat yet. My second choice was the Factory UTV over bed carrier and that's what I bought. Covid cancelled my trip, DRF completed the extender for the 2 seater and I bought one of those ASAP. And that's how I ended up with two spares. Since I bought the Talon for desert exploration and will be solo much of the time, I'll carry two spares for those trips and deal with the extra weight (which is ~53 pounds).
The full writeup -
Dirt Road Fabrication Bed Extender/Spare/Rotopax Carrier on a Talon R - The Honda Side by Side Club! (hondasxs.com)
There's 14" between the TSC storage box and DRF, the 3 gallon RotoPax is 4-1/2".
The spare is below the Talon's roofline on the FUTV carrier so it still fits in my garage on the trailer where it lives. (8' door)
The full writeup -
Dirt Road Fabrication Bed Extender/Spare/Rotopax Carrier on a Talon R - The Honda Side by Side Club! (hondasxs.com)
There's 14" between the TSC storage box and DRF, the 3 gallon RotoPax is 4-1/2".
The spare is below the Talon's roofline on the FUTV carrier so it still fits in my garage on the trailer where it lives. (8' door)
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CID
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I have a very narrow squeeze between the corner of the garage and cement retaining wall, my intended parking location. This restriction limited me to an 80" trailer width. That limitation puts the centerline of the tires just inside the fenders, the wood steps - 1. keep me from crushing the fenders (they're quite well built but I don't think they're up the the Talon's weight). 2. they give me a better 'purchase' going over, so I don't drop one tire or the other off a fender. 3. Yep, it's steep and takes a heavy foot in low range to get the lift started. I hope this doesn't shorten my clutch life 'too much'. There are loading situations where I have to pull up tight to the wood, so I can't make that angle more gentle.
I haven't tried to put the trailer along the garage yet, it's too tight (2" to spare and the downspout needs to be relocated first) and I don't want such an expensive toy rotting in the sun so it's taken garage priority over the van.
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