New Talon Owners - First Things to Know and Check

[CID]

My shifter on my 2021 is different than yours in the video? Was that there way to correct it?

That's not my video but it's an aftermarket shift gate, there are several different choices available including one from PaulF on this site. I'll add that to my post. 👍

 

[Admin]

 

[CID]

Anyone install the Mudbusters with nerf bars?

@TerryH has IIRC and did a nice job of it, accurately cutting the necessary hole in each MB.

 

[TerryH]

@TerryH has IIRC and did a nice job of it, accurately cutting the necessary hole in each MB.

It's a pain in the rear but can be done. Measure, cut, curse not necessarily in that order.

Edit: Whoever screwed up the photo uploading on the site should go back to the way it was!

 

[CID]

It's a pain in the rear but can be done. Measure, cut, curse not necessarily in that order.

Edit: Whoever screwed up the photo uploading on the site should go back to the way it was!

View attachment 257774View attachment 257775

I agree about the pics, I had it figured out and now I don't. I prefer being able to choose the size and now it's a full 1000 pixels which isn't needed unless it's scenery IMO.

 

[TerryH]

I agree about the pics, I had it figured out and now I don't. I prefer being able to choose the size and now it's a full 1000 pixels which isn't needed unless it's scenery IMO.

I use BB code from my Flickr page to post pics. Used to be really easy. Now not so much. Beats me why the change.

 

[CID]

I use BB code from my Flickr page to post pics. Used to be really easy. Now not so much. Beats me why the change.

We got a site 'upgrade' - unintended consequences comes to mind. I can't use my SmugMug link defining photo size anymore, it's all or nuttin'. This site auto sizes to 1000 x 1000 max and many of my pics are easily that large.

 

[TerryH]

We got a site 'upgrade' - unintended consequences comes to mind. I can't use my SmugMug link defining photo size anymore, it's all or nuttin'. This site auto sizes to 1000 x 1000 max and many of my pics are easily that large.

I figured it was the dreaded "update" syndrome.

 

[CID]

Thanks to PaulF for this information on driveshaft removal.

You can in fact remove the driveline from the bottom and it only took me an hour to figure it out. I can probably do it in 30 minutes next time...

1. Remove Skid Plate.
2. Remove LF lower fender thing (not sure what it is called but it gives you clear access to the clip holding the driveline in the front clutch).
3. Unclip the LF Speed Sensor wire from the frame (2 places).
4. Remove the rear drive line loop. Not sure you really need to do this but I thought the driveline would come out the back as noted by other. Turns out there is enough room and the driveline comes out the bottom very easily.
5. Remove the front driveline loop bolts. Use 3/8 drive and you will need a u-joint or wobbly socket. Slightly pry the driver floorboard to give clearance for the socket. Once loose, you can use 1/4 drive air ratchet to remove.
6. Split the loop apart and take it completely out.
7. Turn the drivetrain until the release clip on the front clutch faces left. Use some good flat/parallel style snap ring pliers to release the front yoke from the front diff clutch. It will only come out about 1/4" at this point until you remove the diff bolts.
8. Remove the 3 bolts holding the front diff in place.
9. Although not necessary, it helps a lot to remove the RIGHT 4 lower engine mount bolts and use a ratchet strap and pull the right side of the entire engine assembly back about 1/4" to 1/2". This makes the driveline removal and install much easier. Don't apply too much pressure, just enough to move the engine back a little.
10. Carefully pry the diff forward, pull the driveline back, rotate the void where the clip resides upward and wiggle the driveline up and over the diff.
11. Pry the drive line forward off the O-rings on the rear spline and push the driveline forward and up.
12. Pull driveline out the bottom at the back.
13. DONE!!!

Also from PaulF - (same but different)
If you only need to remove the driveline, you do not need to pull the floorboard, the axles or the diff to remove the driveline. Just remove the skids and the left lower inner fender. The driveline comes out the bottom in less than an hour...

More details from PaulF -
Removing the driveshaft is not that hard and removal of the front diff is not necessary. It takes less than 1 hour to R&R and I have done it a couple times and can do it in 40 minutes (20 to remove and 20 to install).

The tricks are ..

• Instead of removing the floor pan, just use a pry bar and move it over about 1/2 inch so you can remove one of the driveline loop bolts.
• Release the clip on the driveline at the front diff, do not remove the clutch.
• If you are alone, use a ratchet strap to hold the front diff as far forward as possible because it wants to slide back if you don't hold it forward.
• If you still cannot remove the driveline, use another ratchet strap on the RR engine mount to the rear of the frame and pull the motor back a little. This will give you the room you need to sneak the driveline out.

Added info from HondaTech - (7-27-23)
If ypu have a 2 post lift to use, it's an 1 hour job at most.

Remove middle skid plate(if stock) or remove skid plates that allow you to acces the front driveshaft loop and in front of the sub trans.

Remove the bumper/winch (if equipped with a winch)

Take all 2 forward front differential bolts out, loosen rear bolt but leave in, unclip the sensor wire on the drivers side

Remove the front driveshaft loop, I use a 12mm swivel socket (1/4" drive) and get it from underneath

We have a special set of inside opening pliers (Mac Tools) to get the clip open in the diff. Lube and brake clean help loosen it up.

Then use a pry bar to pry the driveshaft back while opening the clip

Remove the bolt from the differential and push it forward until the driveshaft comes out

Slide the driveshaft up into the cavity under the hood and drop it out the bottom (you may have to pry it off the sub trans, using the frame as a pushing point)

 

[HondaTech]

Thanks to PaulF for this information on driveshaft removal.

You can in fact remove the driveline from the bottom and it only took me an hour to figure it out. I can probably do it in 30 minutes next time...

1. Remove Skid Plate.
2. Remove LF lower fender thing (not sure what it is called but it gives you clear access to the clip holding the driveline in the front clutch).
3. Unclip the LF Speed Sensor wire from the frame (2 places).
4. Remove the rear drive line loop. Not sure you really need to do this but I thought the driveline would come out the back as noted by other. Turns out there is enough room and the driveline comes out the bottom very easily.
5. Remove the front driveline loop bolts. Use 3/8 drive and you will need a u-joint or wobbly socket. Slightly pry the driver floorboard to give clearance for the socket. Once loose, you can use 1/4 drive air ratchet to remove.
6. Split the loop apart and take it completely out.
7. Turn the drivetrain until the release clip on the front clutch faces left. Use some good flat/parallel style snap ring pliers to release the front yoke from the front diff clutch. It will only come out about 1/4" at this point until you remove the diff bolts.
8. Remove the 3 bolts holding the front diff in place.
9. Carefully pry the diff forward, pull the driveline back, rotate the void where the clip resides upward and wiggle the driveline up and over the diff.
10. Pry the drive line forward off the O-rings on the rear spline and push the driveline forward and up.
11. Pull driveline out the bottom at the back.
12. DONE!!!

That front driveshaft clip can f*** off.

We slide hammer them out and install new every time.

 

[PaulF]

That front driveshaft clip can f*** off.

We slide hammer them out and install new every time.

Not sure why anyone would go to that extreme and chance breaking the aluminum hub on the front drive clutch when the front drive clip is extremely easy to release with the right tool. Took me all of 5 seconds to release it. All you need is a pair of parallel retaining ring pliers like these...

 

[HondaTech]

Not sure why anyone would go to that extreme and chance breaking the aluminum hub on the front drive clutch when the front drive clip is extremely easy to release with the right tool. Took me all of 5 seconds to release it. All you need is a pair of parallel retaining ring pliers like these...

View attachment 262050

When they get some age on them the groove gets packed with mud and makes the clip impossible.

We've attached a pair of vice grips to a slide hammer and yank them out if they get to be troublesome.

We all have a similar set of "inside" pliers. They work great when the machine is new.

 

[PaulF]

Mud??? What's that???

The way you described it at first, I didn't understand what you were doing. I pictured you pulled the driveline out with a slide hammer, not just the clip. The visual in my mind was horrible!

The one I just pulled has 16,000 miles on it. Came right out but we don't do that "mud" stuff out west here. Plenty of dust/grease up in the grove but it still came out first try. I can see if packed up with something hard how it would be difficult.

Do you snip off one of the hooked ends before you pull it out or does it just bend over and clean out the groove on its way out?

 

[HondaTech]

Mud??? What's that???

The way you described it at first, I didn't understand what you were doing. I pictured you pulled the driveline out with a slide hammer, not just the clip. The visual in my mind was horrible!

The one I just pulled has 16,000 miles on it. Came right out but we don't do that "mud" stuff out west here. Plenty of dust/grease up in the grove but it still came out first try. I can see if packed up with something hard how it would be difficult.

Do you snip off one of the hooked ends before you pull it out or does it just bend over and clean out the groove on its way out?

We cut one of the ends off and grab the other and pull it out.

 

[Dankathy]

So, when to check valve clearance on a new machine? The book says 100 miles, internet opinion is when it starts to make noise. We wear headsets and don't hear much anyway. I can attest that this is something that can be back burnered a little to long.

 

[PaulF]

So, when to check valve clearance on a new machine? The book says 100 miles, internet opinion is when it starts to make noise. We wear headsets and don't hear much anyway. I can attest that this is something that can be back burnered a little to long.

That is not really what the owner's manual says and internet opinion is just that, an opinion. Contrary to what folks say, the manual is very clear. What a lot of people seem to miss is that there is are 2 footnote for valve clearance...

* Should be serviced by your dealer, unless you have the proper tools and service data, and is mechanically qualified. Refer to the official Honda Service Manual (page 260).

"Note 1 Inspect valve clearance as needed, if engine is noisy."

So that means that at 100 miles and every 2400 miles service interval after that, the person doing the service (a qualified technician that knows what to listen for) is to listen to the engine. If valve train noise is observed then take off the valve cover and check the valve clearance (again, by someone that knows exactly how to check and adjust Honda Uni Cam engines). The process of checking the valve clearance is a bit weird and Honda made it a bit overly complex in my opinion.

When riding, there is no way to try and listen for valve noise and the owner/driver is not expected to unless they are qualified to do so. Of course, if you hear something out of the ordinary between the above mentioned service intervals, then you should have it looked at.

 

[Dankathy]

That is not really what the owner's manual says and internet opinion is just that, an opinion. Contrary to what folks say, the manual is very clear. What a lot of people seem to miss is that there is are 2 footnote for valve clearance...

* Should be serviced by your dealer, unless you have the proper tools and service data, and is mechanically qualified. Refer to the official Honda Service Manual (page 260).

"Note 1 Inspect valve clearance as needed, if engine is noisy."

So that means that at 100 miles and every 2400 miles service interval after that, the person doing the service (a qualified technician that knows what to listen for) is to listen to the engine. If valve train noise is observed then take off the valve cover and check the valve clearance (again, by someone that knows exactly how to check and adjust Honda Uni Cam engines). The process of checking the valve clearance is a bit weird and Honda made it a bit overly complex in my opinion.

When riding, there is no way to try and listen for valve noise and the owner/driver is not expected to unless they are qualified to do so. Of course, if you hear something out of the ordinary between the above mentioned service intervals, then you should have it looked at.

Got a plan then, just need a free day to get that 100 miles. Road trip to Weller's tomorrow,should happen real quick after that. Thanks

 

[CID]

Talon front driveshaft woes. Thanks to PaulF for figuring this out. 👍

Talon Front Driveline Woes

There have been multiple reports of U-Joints on the Talon falling apart. I have now fallen victim to the problem but luckily caught it in the shop before it broke and not out on the trail. Many speculations such as missing clips, bad joints, etc. Instead of replacing the driveline and...

hondasxs.com

If you decide to tack weld your u-joint caps - important welding tip for the less experienced - when welding to the 'yolk side' caps, ground to the yolks. When welding the 'driveshaft side' caps, ground to the driveshaft. If you don't move your ground, you'll be forcing welding current through the u-joint rollers, causing arcing and permanently damaging the u-joints. You won't be able to see this but it IS happening.

 

[CID]

Where to check oil pressure -

Thx to PaulF- (edited slightly)
If you have a pressure gauge, you can connect to the engine to check oil pressure. You can test here but it is a strange M8 X 1.25 straight thread fitting with a flat washer so you will need the appropriate adapter...

 

[CID]

Talon cab heat - with our radiators up front, a LOT of heat passes across the front of the cab enclosure and down the tunnel, exiting across the engine. This heat accumulates during the day turning the passenger 'bucket' into a roaster oven. 🥵 🥵 🥵 There are several heat leaks into the cab, one of them is through the shifter gate. @TerryH found a Youtube solution and did his own video on the install with links for the needed parts.

His thread -

Jeep shifter boot mod for the Talon

Not my idea but after seeing a few others do this I decided to give it a whirl. Used a Jeep CJ5/7 transfer case shifter boot to mitigate the heat coming in thru the shifter. Also insulated the cup holders while I had the console out. Riding this weekend in 105 degree heat indexes so will put the...

hondasxs.com

Unless you ride in Siberia, door lowers on a Talon might be a bad idea. I rode down into the thirtys in tennis shoes last winter without lowers and was completely comfortable. fwiw: Rokblokz keep the mud out.

This is looking down the tunnel from the radiator -

PaulF shows how he cut down on this heat flow in post #11 -

Talon - Cab dust control

I prolly hate dust more than anyone. That’s the main reason it took me so long to buy a SXS. I may have solved the cab dust issue. I’m installing 2-4” blowers to force air into the foot wells on each side of the tunnel that should pressurize the cab and keep the dust out. These blowers put out...

hondasxs.com

DEI has recently come out with a kit very similar to what Paul made from scratch -

’19–’22 Honda Talon 1000 & 1000-4 – Heat Control Kit – DEI Powersports

deipowersports.com

 

[CID]

I hate repeatedly removing steel screws from aluminum threads like our filter covers - seems like a really bad idea to me. I replaced the bolts on my dual sport motorcycle's oil filter cover with studs (same as the Pioneer 1000 and Talon). Doing this might cause the problem of not being able to rotate the covers slightly so the o-ring will slip into the case (not a problem on the mtc) - your choice. I intend to put a lite chamfer on the edge of the filter openings (if there's a sharp edge, don't recall) so the o-ring will slip in easier.

Bolts before -

Studs after. Now pritty 😍 and strong and steel on steel. (photos weren't stolen, I was ER70S-2 on another site)

First thing I noticed is that the threaded holes in the clutch cover are deeper than the stock bolts, by about 6mm. What looks like a longer bolt, is actually a stud with a flanged nut. The bottom one is the stock Zuki bolt.

This shows all 3 studs (cut/ground to length) screwed into the entire depth available (because stronger), with the ground ends exposed. Sorry about the fuzzy pic, the camera was smarter than me when I took this pic (probably still is 😊).

After getting the length right, I flipped the studs to show the factory ends, drowned in Loctite (wiped off excess), and left to dry. DO NOT tighten the studs very tight, that will introduce an unwanted stress into the case bosses. The Loctite will take care of that. You could put the cover on and tighten the nuts finger tight to pull the studs straight while the Loctite is setting (OCD). The Suzuki cover 0-ring sits on the same flat surface as the studs, not in the ID of the opening so there's no problem with that sharp edge nicking the o-ring, hence chamfering the edge isn't necessary here.