New Talon Owners - First Things to Know and Check

[CID]

The DCT bog - what it is and how to work around it.

The DCT in the Talon and Pioneer has a quirk, if driven up to a vertical obstacle it may stall and refuse to climb over it. Why - Our engines idle at ~1500 rpm and the clutch engages at ~1800 rpm, there just isn't any torque down there, it's a law of physics.

PaulF explains how to mitigate the 'problem' -

I have 30" tires and here is what I have discovered.

If I pull up right against a vertical obstacle and "ease" into the throttle, the machine won't move. RPM goes to about 1800 and powers out. However, if I pull right against a vertical obstacle and "stab" the throttle quickly to about 1/2 throttle, the RPM jumps a little before the clutch engages. As soon as I start to climb the obstacle, I feather the throttle back slightly and I go right up nice and easy.

At first it was a little herky jerky but with some practice I have gotten real good at it. It even works with Hill Assist.

My theory is the RPM jumps quicker when you stab the throttle and the PCM doesn't react (or possibly programmed not to react) that fast and so the stall speed is raised slightly. My estimate (by the sound of the engine) is around 2200 to 2400 RPM putting the engine in a better part of the power band.

 

[Lil_Steve]

Stock wheel/tire weight info...

Stock Talon wheels weigh14.2lbs for the front and 14.6lbs for the rear according to my bathroom scale.

I weighed a stock front Talon wheel and (used) stock tire, 37.2lbs. Then I weighed another stock Talon front wheel with a brand new stock tire, 39.6lbs. Both tires were filled at 15psi.
I don't have Talon rears with new tires so I filled both of my used tires to 15psi and they both came in at 43lbs. I realize there will be some variation across different scales but the above info is with all tires at 15psi on the same scale for reference.

 

[Lil_Steve]

@Hondasxs is it possible to sticky this thread in this section?

 

[CID]

WARNING: X4 Possible wiring harness problem (thanks to PaulF for finding this) -

WARNING: X4 Possible wiring harness problem.

Not sure if this is a fluke or a problem but two separate X4 LV owners have reported their wiring harness rubbing on the RR seatbelt bolt. Both of these machines are LV so it is uncertain at this point if the NLV is also a possible problem. One owner reports at 1100 miles rubbing all the way...

hondasxs.com

 

[CID]

Check Engine codes, where are they and what do they look like? This video shows 2-9.

Shown on a Pioneer but I believe the Talon is the same.

 

[PaulF]

Check Engine codes, where are they and what do they look like? This video shows 2-9.

Shown on a Pioneer but I believe the Talon is the same.

Lets clarify how codes are displayed using dash lights. It is much more complex than just counting a light flashing. There are several things involved that are often misunderstood...

• The dash light blinking method only shows the main code, and not any sub codes. So, 2 long and 9 short in this video is not 2-9 (there is actually no such code and this often confuses folks), it is actually code 29-X where X is the sub code. This is still very useful because most codes only have one sub code. For instance, there is only one PGM-FI 29-X code for the Talon and it is 29-1 but there are 8 i4WD 3-X codes (3-1 through 3-8) and each code has multiple meanings so there is 36 different reasons you can get a 3-X code on the i4WD system.
• Different light for different systems. Engine light for PGM-FI, Clutch light for DCT, Steering light for EPS, i4WD light for i4WD.
• Sometimes lights just flash codes but sometimes the light stays on and you must retrieve codes.
• Different retrieval methods for each system (when not using Honda's MCS). Jumping the connector and turning on the ignition will only show you PGM-FI codes. To get codes from the other 3 systems, you have to use different procedures.
• Different code clearing methods for each system.
• The same code is used by various systems and they are not always the same. For instance, 12-1 is shared by 3 system and mean 3 completely different things depending on the system. I often see people diagnosing a code for one system when it is meant for another system and it gets them nowhere.

 

[Enigma]

Thanks PaulF. That is the best explanation of flashing codes and sub codes I have read. I better understand the code now.

 

[Enigma]

Where in the maintenance manual do we find all the main and sub codes? Or is this not possible - only the dealer can do this?

 

[PaulF]

Where in the maintenance manual do we find all the main and sub codes? Or is this not possible - only the dealer can do this?

You need a service manual for that. And the service manual shows code retrieval for each system.

Service manual is almost 700 pages and well worth the investment if you are going to work on your own machine.

 

[Enigma]

Thanks

You need a service manual for that. And the service manual shows code retrieval for each system.

Service manual is almost 700 pages and well worth the investment if you are going to work on your own machine.

Thanks Paul. I have the manual and I think you are referring to the DTC index for each systems such as PGM-FI System?

 

[CID]

There are two larger gas tanks currently available AFAIK, the one in the linked thread is 10 gallons and I believe the Hess is 11 gallons. (I've since been told these are the same tanks so be aware of that)

NEW BIGGER GAS TANK

The si Hmmm, I think I can speak to this. I've always filled my tanks right to the top but noticed the Talon wouldn't allow that, fuel kept backing up before the fuel was at the top because of that inlet pipe that sticks down about 3" trapping an air bubble. If 'we' drill a vent hole (1/2"?) at...

hondasxs.com

 

[CID]

highpocket's recent thread on R2C airfilter failures, however few, made me realize that I haven't looked at mine since I brought it home 2561 miles ago. I never rode it without the Uni pod filter on a snorkel behind the passenger's seat and I checked the two airbox gaskets before my first ride. So I pulled the filter tonight to have a look.

I'm not a filter cleaning OCD kinda guy, I wait until they start to 'mud over' before cleaning (that photo is in post #18), this is the result. I'm also not a racer, a slight drop in airflow will have no affect on my riding. The result of 'over oiling' is the last pic in post #19, but oil is how they work so I give it plenty. Note that I don't soak it stupidly and I squeeze out as much oil as possible but there won't be any dry spots.

All was not well inside the airbox though, there was a very light dust around the intake tubes. I couldn't feel it, it was soft like cotton lint but it was there. Since the filter was clean on the dirty side, that meant there wasn't any dust getting around the filter's edge seal either. The only source left is the groove around the airbox cover itself so I filled that groove flush with grease as has been suggested by others. I had thought this step was overkill, now, obviously, I don't.

This complicated reassembly a little bit - the 11 clips around the cover are pretty damn tight and now they're tighter. I had to bend a piece of welding wire to help me pull a couple of the clips into place. The grease also prevents the 'kerthunk' when the cover seats itself and I hoped that I had it aligned properly but the clips are so tight that misalignment is unlikely. When I was done I ran my finger around the perimeter seam and it was even all the way around so I should be good. Start putting the lid on in a corner, it will help the initial alignment.

Greased FULL - the grease smear in the upper right was there when I removed the cover. A grease gun with a small hole in the nozzle would make this faster, easier and less messy but I didn't have one.

 

[Dankathy]

highpocket's recent thread on R2C airfilter failures, however few, made me realize that I haven't looked at mine since I brought it home 2561 miles ago. I never rode it without the Uni pod filter on a snorkel behind the passenger's seat and I checked the two airbox gaskets before my first ride. So I pulled the filter tonight to have a look.

View attachment 289323

I'm not a filter cleaning OCD kinda guy, I wait until they start to 'mud over' before cleaning (that photo is in post #18), this is the result. I'm also not a racer, a slight drop in airflow will have no affect on my riding. The result of 'over oiling' is the last pic in post #19, but oil is how they work so I give it plenty.
View attachment 289324

View attachment 289325

All was not well inside the airbox though, there was a very light dust around the intake tubes. I couldn't feel it, it was soft like cotton lint but it was there. Since the filter was clean on the dirty side, that meant there wasn't any dust getting around the filter's edge seal either. The only source left is the groove around the airbox cover itself so I filled that groove flush with grease as has been suggested by others. I had thought this step was overkill, now, obviously, I don't.

This complicated reassembly a little bit - the 8(?) clips around the cover are pretty damn tight and now they're tighter. I had to bend a piece of welding wire to help me pull a couple of the clips into place. The grease also prevents the 'kerthunk' when the cover seats itself and I hoped that I had it aligned properly but the clips are so tight that misalignment is unlikely. When I was done I ran my finger around the perimeter seam and it was even all the way around so I should be good. Start putting the lid on in a corner, it will help the initial alignment.

Greased FULL - the grease smear in the upper right was there when I removed the cover. A grease gun with a small hole in the nozzle would make this faster, easier and less messy but I didn't have one.
View attachment 289328

I had all these same thoughts on my first talon. Fast forward 16000 miles and it was made clear that one of the tubes between the air box and the throttle body was improperly installed at the factory. Engine was using oil, she got a new talon. Will suggest you check your throttle body tubes closely, if there is a problem would hope it is not as severe as mine due to the lower milage.

 

[CID]

I had all these same thoughts on my first talon. Fast forward 16000 miles and it was made clear that one of the tubes between the air box and the throttle body was improperly installed at the factory. Engine was using oil, she got a new talon. Will suggest you check your throttle body tubes closely, if there is a problem would hope it is not as severe as mine due to the lower milage.

Thanks, Dan, I remember your story. I 'assumed' that my cover was leaking but it sure could be at the throttle body connection. It's tight in there, hope I can get at it to make sure it's properly connected. 🤔 I checked those connections before but it may have been on the one that got stolen.

 

[CID]

PaulF explains how to center our steering -

My R turned more to one side because the dealer just threw on the steering wheel to a non-centered rack (came non-centered from the factory) so if you do it yourself, make sure and center your rack (not the steering wheel) and then set your toe to the centered rack. Once the rack is centered and the toe is set, then remove and center your steering wheel if necessary.

You can also center the rack and then center the wheel if needed, then set your toe.

More by Paul -

Another quick way to check and/or center the rack...

1. Turn and hold the steering wheel all the way to the right and place a piece of masking tape at 12 o'clock.
   
2. Then turn and hold the wheel all the way to the left and place a piece of masking tape at 12 o'clock.
   
3. Then turn the wheel straight using the tape marks as reference (not the steering wheel spokes). On the R, the tape marks will be at about 10 and 2 o'clock. On the X they will be about 11 and 1 o'clock (I believe).
   
4. If the spokes on the steering wheel are straight, your wheel is centered to your rack. If not, remove the tape, pull the wheel and center it.

Now your rack is centered and you can proceed. If one of your tires was rubbing (like you indicated) and stopping the rack from hitting one of the stops, then you may need to repeat the whole process after setting your toe to make sure you are still centered.

 

[TerryH]

Adding some of my content to this great thread. Hope something is helpful.

Oversprung is not really a word, unless you have a Talon. Especially an X. Here are some videos that show the process of changing the tender springs and the nitrogen caps.

Edit: Links to everything I use in my videos are in the show notes in the video description. If you are watching on your phone there will be a little down arrow to the right of the video title. Hit that down arrow and that will expand the notes and allow you to see the links.

Spring install...

Review...

Nitrogen caps...

 

[TerryH]

Not sure who though the lack of parking brake on the Talon was a good idea but here's a video of one of my favorite mods, the Hillbilly Brake. Super easy install. I use it a lot. 100% of the time when I'm towing and also a lot out on the trails.

 

[TerryH]

One of the most popular things is to add storage capability to the Talon. I've made a couple of improvements to my setup since the video was made so check the show notes in the video description for those updates. Namely, I've added 2 more latches farther out on the box. The lid began to warp over time with just the 2 latches closer to the center. I found better weatherstipping at Home Depot. Changed to the cam lock style straps to secure the box. After all of that I guess I need to make another video. lol... Anyway, here's the original Tractor Supply box vid.

 

[TerryH]

Here's the install of the Hess motorsports quick disconnect and Dragonfire D shaped steering wheel. This combination keeps the factory spacing to the paddles within 1/4" of factory.

 

[TerryH]

JSportsxs tie rod install. This video includes a very basic and easy method of checking and setting the toe on the front end.