P500 Stability! Need help.

[retirednavychief]

Thanks for the info. Not to discount anyone else's reply but this is by far the most comprehensive and helpful advice to date. I really appreciate it. Sounds like I can make some pretty impactful improvements without breaking the bank. Thanks again.

 

[Admin]

 

[Montecresto]

My .02.

I run 7" wide 5+2 rims ITP rims ($40 each) and 2" wide spacers from Dungear on Ebay, these are USA made Billet with wheel studs instead of bolts like the cheaper china imports. I run 30" tall interco R-Force 8" wide tires. I am still just under 54" wide. It improved stability and helped tremendously. Get taller tires and go wider if you can still go on your trails without getting a ticket. If you dont want tall tires at least try to gain width, on the stock tires being 4" wider will make it feel a LOT safer.

Sure, I still fall over, but I do that in places where many fear to go and I could avoid falling over by just going around certain sections, but what is the fun in that?

Ruts are not as big a deal for me now, while I can only drive over a milk crate I find that many jeeps on the trail really cant even do that without the punkin hitting it. And the RZR's are belly draggers in comparison. I sit at about the same ground clearance as a $20k stock high lifter for under $9k all in. If anything I wish the P5 was longer. Ruts to me mean someone else has already been here, so why cant I go here?

I once asked some 1k RZR riders if they get scared and they chuckle... "No, not really", Well, I am not ashamed to admit that this P5 can scare the hell outta me when I let it, and that's why I love it! I don't keep the plastic on my furniture to save it for the next owner.

Think of it like JUDO, the best way to throw is to be thrown 1000 times... In this case the best way to learn to the limit is to know where it is first hand and be prepared! Falling over is not often as dramatic as some make it out to be, just learn it before you on a mountainside with no trees to stop the roll.. . Just be sure to shut the engine off immediately upon falling over.

Here I can be seen draining the water out of my cooler, it was after this trip that I discovered the drain plug in the cooler and that would have saved a lot of time...
View attachment 34945

Everybody knows this even if not willing to admit it. Glad there was no injuries. Sure is green there, that must not be a fresh picture?

 

[Alan aka Davinci]

So I just need to figure this out. Perhaps it's just the limits of my Machine. Heading to Hatfield McCoy in May and Montana in August. Pretty big mountains to fall off of.

You will be ok, I live in Colorado and have not fallen off any mountains yet and with the big mountains we have here if you do fall of you just end up in a neighboring state and they all medical facilities.

 

[pFive]

Everybody knows this even if not willing to admit it. Glad there was no injuries. Sure is green there, that must not be a fresh picture?

I think that was last may (EDIT: October). We have 3 big riding parks within 3 hours of me and two of them are pretty aggressive with hills. This was at Haspin Acres, a big park but nearly every inch of it is downtrodden rock and clay with tracks everywhere, a lot of youtube videos about that place. People like if cause you can overnight virtually anywhere you want and it's a bit of a party park.
Interlake and Redbird are SRA's have a lot more greenery and nature but are stricter with rules on alcohol and no overnights.

Anyway, when we are at these places we are never really far from the trailer so some of us take risks just to do it, a "Skills test" sorta place. If I was in another state I would ride with a little more sense to reduce the chances of ruining my good time with buggy damage.

 

[KYhillbilly]

Tried out the new spacers and they seem to help a lot. Got 1.5" spacers from Super ATV for $65 and because their website was having issues when i ordered they sent me a $50 coupon for my next purchase.

I have STI HD beadlock 5+2 wheels with 1.5" spacers with 27" tires, seems much more stable now. May must be I am more careful now but still seems more stable.

 

[retirednavychief]

I think that was last may. We have 3 big riding parks within 3 hours of me and two of them are pretty aggressive with hills. This was at Haspin Acres, a big park but nearly every inch of it is downtrodden rock and clay with tracks everywhere, a lot of youtube videos about that place. People like if cause you can overnight virtually anywhere you want and it's a bit of a party park.
Interlake and Redbird are SRA's have a lot more greenery and nature but are stricter with rules on alcohol and no overnights.

Anyway, when we are at these places we are never really far from the trailer so some of us take risks just to do it, a "Skills test" sorta place. If I was in another state I would ride with a little to fit in the toy hauler. more sense to reduce the chances of ruining my good time with buggy damage.

This is our first year doing this. My wife and I have a toy hauler. The P500 was chosen in part due to the fact that it is small enough to fit in the toy hauler. We have several places within a few hours where we can camp either free or very inexpensive. Hansen Hollows in eastern Iowa is e nearly 500 acre fam with tons of trails. Free camping. Smurfwoods down in Missouri and Tampa OHV park in Tama Iowa. Lots of great opportunities. This summer is going to be a blast!

 

[trigger]

This is our first year doing this. My wife and I have a toy hauler. The P500 was chosen in part due to the fact that it is small enough to fit in the toy hauler. We have several places within a few hours where we can camp either free or very inexpensive. Hansen Hollows in eastern Iowa is e nearly 500 acre fam with tons of trails. Free camping. Smurfwoods down in Missouri and Tampa OHV park in Tama Iowa. Lots of great opportunities. This summer is going to be a blast!

Haven't seen a pic of this toy hauler...

 

[retirednavychief]

Haven't seen a pic of this toy hauler...

Don't have a picture. It's a 39.5 ft Forest River Wolf Pack.

 

[KYhillbilly]

If you are going to do the Hatfield and McCoy trails you need to stop at Rush off-road Rush Off-Road on your way. It is right outside of Ashland KY about 1.5 hours north east of the Hatfield and McCoy trails. It is 7000 acres. Both are great but if your coming from Iowa you will pass Rush Offroad on your way.

 

[retirednavychief]

If you are going to do the Hatfield and McCoy trails you need to stop at Rush off-road Rush Off-Road on your way. It is right outside of Ashland KY about 1.5 hours north east of the Hatfield and McCoy trails. It is 7000 acres. Both are great but if your coming from Iowa you will pass Rush Offroad on your way.

I will have to check this out

 

[Montecresto]

I think that was last may. We have 3 big riding parks within 3 hours of me and two of them are pretty aggressive with hills. This was at Haspin Acres, a big park but nearly every inch of it is downtrodden rock and clay with tracks everywhere, a lot of youtube videos about that place. People like if cause you can overnight virtually anywhere you want and it's a bit of a party park.
Interlake and Redbird are SRA's have a lot more greenery and nature but are stricter with rules on alcohol and no overnights.

Anyway, when we are at these places we are never really far from the trailer so some of us take risks just to do it, a "Skills test" sorta place. If I was in another state I would ride with a little more sense to reduce the chances of ruining my good time with buggy damage.

That sounds like a good place to ride. I have minor damage on mine from a roll over, and I completely concur with the fear factor you described.

 

[KYhillbilly]

Gave the spacers a more thorough test today and they make a big difference, had it in the same place it rolled last time and this time it was just me on the downhill side and it handled it easily. Also went through some other sketchy locations and it did great. My log bridge was still intact as well.

Bb3

• KYhillbilly
• Feb 21, 2017

 

[Mudder]

OK; so I did some looking. I honestly didn't know what you all meant by "offsets" on the tires. Now that I have gained an understanding, I see how this could be a huge gain in stability. I also recognize that the stability is inherent in the added overall width of the machine with the offsets.
Now here is a stupid question so please don't laugh. Why can't I just take the factory wheels and turn them face out? Looks like I would gain 3 or so inches on either side.

No lug nut bevel on inside of rim. Thought about those that add weight (battery) under drivers seat on frame, if that helps with lower center of tipping gravity point. Or, just be extra cautious since we can't use body lean like on an Atv. Second the helment. Half biker helment saved me, less hot in summer.

 

[retirednavychief]

No lug nut bevel on inside of rim. Thought about those that add weight (battery) under drivers seat on frame, if that helps with lower center of tipping gravity point. Or, just be extra cautious since we can't use body lean like on an Atv. Second the helment. Half biker helment saved me, less hot in summer.

"Lug nut bevel". Thats it! Thanks

 

[retirednavychief]

Ordered my 2" spacers. Can't wait to try them

 

[trigger]

Ordered my 2" spacers. Can't wait to try them

Be sure to use some red thread locker when you bolt them on. Heard horror stories about those nuts coming loose behind the wheel. Just pulled my spacers off today ( I got new wheels ) and I had to beat on the wrench to get them to cut loose.

 

[Mike Martsolf]

So my wife and I went out for a ride on our new P500. We went down a hill with some very deep ruts. Not wanting to bottom out, I attempted to straddle the ruts. Since it was sooo slippery, my right tire wound up in the deep left rut. We were going at a snails pace and tipped right over. After we stopped laughing , we crawled out and uprighted the machine with no damage or injuries. Later the same day, we were riding on a trail along the side of a hill. We had no subsequent tipping but we were very fearful. We are not afraid of tipping but tipping into a river or down a mountain is another thing. We love our Pioneer but as newbies to this sport, I am wondering out loud what modifications I can make to lessen the chances for tipping. Tires? Suspension? Thoughts anyone?

Yes the extra width would be nice-I just took my after market wheels off as I could not clear the 50" gates at trailheads in Colorado. & Idaho. put the original wheels back with larger tires. So width does matter.

 

[Mike Martsolf]

Haven't seen a pic of this toy hauler...

One of the reasons we got a P5. firs in our toy hauler goes camping all summer & to Az for jan. & Feb.

 

[Buford]

The downside to wheel spacers is the extra strain it puts on wheel bearings and the rest of the suspension components. But it's probably worth it to keep from tipping over.

 

[rocmar]

The downside to wheel spacers is the extra strain it puts on wheel bearings and the rest of the suspension components. But it's probably worth it to keep from tipping over.

Haven't had mine on...very long...but the stability difference
out ways any...replacement of wheel bearings. ..
IMO..Mines 58" now..& the difference is
night & day......
strain is no more..than a plow...