Clutches are dead yet again

swsebek

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I'm willing to bet the Honda passenger cars with DCT are not up to the window sills in Muskeg...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Some of these units are being abused like only Honda engineers could dream in a nightmare.
Absolutely true and being driven by people who only understand ,twist throttle and go like on a belt machine.....and a lot of time can't tell shuttering or just giving it hell till it smokes or quits.Some clutch issues are Hondas fault for not giving a mudd model or a sport model to these individuals........Now with that being said Honda better get a fool proof clutch or these folks and my self will not be buying one
 
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swsebek

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And from what I've seen and read most who smoked their clutches could break a lead block. A hahahaha and you guys keep putting them on their roof..... what the heck are you doing wrong you have to say yourself
 
Delton

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Has anyone heard of someone running 30s that HASNT had clutch problems?
Yeah me. 2105 miles as I pulled into parking lot at work this morning. Tues before last I drug a dead/non-pulling 900 Ranger up about 2 miles of loose, rocky, and steep hill. Averaged around 9mph so you know I had it hammered. Cameraman had trouble keeping up with me.
 
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Boomboom907

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Do you have a second battery for the winch, or were you draining the main battery winching?

If the main battery drops below 12v (which can be done in seconds with a 4500lb winch) the clutch Solenoid cuts out making it easier to kill the clutches. Once the battery charges back the clutch solenoid engages again.

I have my accessories isolated from the main battery and a voltmeter to watch both batteries.



P1000m5 - The Mistress

View attachment 46540
We we're using a different rigs winch. The only strain on the battery was just the engine running

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Boomboom907

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This is kind of why I can't believe people saying it's 100% operator error. If some people aren't having problems when some are it means 2 things
1. They are Jesus of the pioneers and are perfect in every way and NEVER make any "mistakes" when babying the clutch
2. Their rig is somehow better. I don't know how, but it somehow is. The clutches are stronger, the oil is cooler, idk.

People aren't perfect. I believe 2 is more realistic.

My clutches failed 2 times with less than 500 miles on rig, and around 150 miles within each other. I've only been stuck two times. We winched out both times, I don't have a winch on my rig. Always with a different machines winch.

So when people in this forum say s*** like "Yeah Honda's fault" sarcastically and imply I ruined my clutches, seems odd when I was going out of my way to try and save them second time around, trying not to feather the clutches. But then you, and others, never have problems.

So which is it. Are you pioneer Jesus, or is your machine somehow better than some of ours?

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Boomboom907

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I'm willing to bet the Honda passenger cars with DCT are not up to the window sills in Muskeg...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Some of these units are being abused like only Honda engineers could dream in a nightmare.
I bought a utv capable of off-road use, not a minivan. That's a really invalid argument

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joeymt33

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This is kind of why I can't believe people saying it's 100% operator error. If some people aren't having problems when some are it means 2 things
1. They are Jesus of the pioneers and are perfect in every way and NEVER make any "mistakes" when babying the clutch
2. Their rig is somehow better. I don't know how, but it somehow is. The clutches are stronger, the oil is cooler, idk.

People aren't perfect. I believe 2 is more realistic.

My clutches failed 2 times with less than 500 miles on rig, and around 150 miles within each other. I've only been stuck two times. We winched out both times, I don't have a winch on my rig. Always with a different machines winch.

So when people in this forum say s*** like "Yeah Honda's fault" sarcastically and imply I ruined my clutches, seems odd when I was going out of my way to try and save them second time around, trying not to feather the clutches. But then you, and others, never have problems.

So which is it. Are you pioneer Jesus, or is your machine somehow better than some of ours?

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I believe it's faulty machines and there are some that are driver error. I can't say if your problem is driver error or not. Also, I wont make accusations or assumptions.

A problem I have with the driver error instances are: 1, we should had a parking brake and 2, we need lower reverse, 3, stay out of the engagement zone. I believe those 3 things could have been better built or designed but it still falls under driver error because the manual says we must drive it a specific way. I don't like having so many rules on my off road rig.

There was one time I got stuck and when I floored the throttle, the engine would die because the tires were stuck. That happened 3 times so I found out the clutch is stronger than the engine.

@CPope and family took video but lost it. He can at least testify for me.


CP: I've been saying that since that jack wagon was picking Legos from his turds:)
 
nbomar

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This is kind of why I can't believe people saying it's 100% operator error. If some people aren't having problems when some are it means 2 things
1. They are Jesus of the pioneers and are perfect in every way and NEVER make any "mistakes" when babying the clutch
2. Their rig is somehow better. I don't know how, but it somehow is. The clutches are stronger, the oil is cooler, idk.

People aren't perfect. I believe 2 is more realistic.

My clutches failed 2 times with less than 500 miles on rig, and around 150 miles within each other. I've only been stuck two times. We winched out both times, I don't have a winch on my rig. Always with a different machines winch.

So when people in this forum say s*** like "Yeah Honda's fault" sarcastically and imply I ruined my clutches, seems odd when I was going out of my way to try and save them second time around, trying not to feather the clutches. But then you, and others, never have problems.

So which is it. Are you pioneer Jesus, or is your machine somehow better than some of ours?

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I'm not going to say wether or not your damage was self inflicted or not. I would guess he mud where you are is probably a lot more clay based than where joey is. I have said multiple time to different people that I think some of these rigs are stronger than others. I've backed up the side of "mountains" granted these are the ozarks so some would say they are hills, but either way, this was before I heard about all the issues. Being I had the very first 1000 my dealer got, I've had it for awhile. We got it right before hunting season so it got used going slow through tight trails and hauling people and animals up and down hills. Now that I know more about the limits of the machine I'm more careful, but I've still crept up rock ledges and other things with no issues whatsoever. I'd say their tolerances on something internal in the trans have some big variances. Some machines just go through clutches and some don't.


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Boomboom907

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I'm not going to say wether or not your damage was self inflicted or not. I would guess he mud where you are is probably a lot more clay based than where joey is. I have said multiple time to different people that I think some of these rigs are stronger than others. I've backed up the side of "mountains" granted these are the ozarks so some would say they are hills, but either way, this was before I heard about all the issues. Being I had the very first 1000 my dealer got, I've had it for awhile. We got it right before hunting season so it got used going slow through tight trails and hauling people and animals up and down hills. Now that I know more about the limits of the machine I'm more careful, but I've still crept up rock ledges and other things with no issues whatsoever. I'd say their tolerances on something internal in the trans have some big variances. Some machines just go through clutches and some don't.


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I agree, and that's what I've been saying and people keep shutting me down. Some of these rigs ARE doing better than others.

Had I known the machine couldn't handle bigger tires, and crawling over things, Couldn't handle anything to do with muskeg ( Muskeg is really just water, and under the water is regular mud and crap loads of dead grass. We do have peanut butter mud that's basically pure clay, but I wasn't in it ) I mean there's so many rules that these other utvs don't have. I really wish this just had a cvt. Personal opinion, and certainly not the popular one.

Anyways, this post isn't to talk crap. I'm just saying I think it's a fantastic machine for someone who wants to motor around hard pack, maybe crawl around on some rocks, camp with the family, tow stuff around the farm and occasionally go through some minor mud( you states guys have different stuff, take what I say with salt). Does awesome in snow. But the things it can't do are simply the things I do. It just can't handle the places I go. It's not that the places we go are super hard and bad, it's just not designed to handle the things we are doing. It's the design of the transmission. The gearing. The way the clutches work. I just don't think it's the tool for my job

I think I'm gonna leave it at Honda and have them sell it. I have boot camp and tech school in a few months anyways. When I get back in 2018 new stuff will be out. Maybe something cool will happen. Maybe Honda will release a sport utv. Or fix the current problems people are having with the pioneers.

And idk if this matters, I was in sport mode while stuck.

I'll report in whatever the mechanic tells me, though I think all he will say is I burnt them to crap like he did last time.

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Boomboom907

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I don't like having so many rules on my off road rig.

There was one time I got stuck and when I floored the throttle, the engine would die because the tires were stuck. That happened 3 times so I found out the clutch is stronger than the engine.

@CPope and family took video but lost it. He can at least testify for me.


CP: I've been saying that since that jack wagon was picking Legos from his turds:)

I have video of this happening, though my tires couldn't hook up yesterday so that didn't happen this time

I agree. An off-road rig shouldn't have so many rules required. I've said that a lot. That's kind of why I'm now favoring cvt. It just works.

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nbomar

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I have video of this happening, though my tires couldn't hook up yesterday so that didn't happen this time

I agree. An off-road rig shouldn't have so many rules required. I've said that a lot. That's kind of why I'm now favoring cvt. It just works.

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Did you say it started working again after getting out of the mud? I know @JTW had his do this the other day also. The clutches glazed over and after some driving they cleared themselves up.


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Boomboom907

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Did you say it started working again after getting out of the mud? I know @JTW had his do this the other day also. The clutches glazed over and after some driving they cleared themselves up.


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I remember hearing about that.

These things are pretty bad. About 4k before enguagement.

It's so weird the whole clutch pack can go from totally good to totally screwed in about 6 seconds.

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popeye

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I remember hearing about that.

These things are pretty bad. About 4k before enguagement.

It's so weird the whole clutch pack can go from totally good to totally screwed in about 6 seconds.

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I remember when we were talking about the plumbing of your heater into the coolant system. Im not saying that this is the cause of your second set of clutches, but since you strayed from the exact way the oem honda heater is plumbed in, it possibly could have contributed. I know you "T'ed" into the oil cooler line, and honda does it by running their heater in line with the oil cooler hose. I tried to comunicate that to you at the time that you were doing your install, but intentions are often mistaken on hear. Sorry to hear about your bad luck or bad machine.

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Boomboom907

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I remember when we were talking about the plumbing of your heater into the coolant system. Im not saying that this is the cause of your second set of clutches, but since you strayed from the exact way the oem honda heater is plumbed in, it possibly could have contributed. I know you "T'ed" into the oil cooler line, and honda does it by running their heater in line with the oil cooler hose. I tried to comunicate that to you at the time that you were doing your install, but intentions are often mistaken on hear. Sorry to hear about your bad luck or bad machine.

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Valve has been closed since install anyways. I don't think it did anything

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JACKAL

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In a skeg. These machines simply aren't designed to work in muskeg. Simple as that.

I have 30 intimidators
Hilifter a arms
2.5 inch lift.

I did t into my oil cooler for a heater. I'm not sure if that had anything to do this time, but either way I'm taking it out, gonna just throw a coupler where the t is and revert to stock.

I'm pretty unhappy. In my opinion I didn't ride it hard enough today to damage anything. We winched out and slowly turned the tires till they grabbed. Once the tires grabbed we slowly crept out using the winch.

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In that muskeg, does anyone have any luck with tracks? Or do they not stay on top of it? I know that would also kill maneuverability.
 
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TractorMan

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In the picture it looked like there was a way around it. :) I am no fun I would have went around it and finished enjoying my day and ride.
 
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Delton

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Driver error? Faulty design? Manufacturing problem? Yes, yes, and yes. Trying to figure out what's exactly wrong is impossible. Nobody on the planet can actually say THIS is what's going on with these clutches. Circumstances vary wildly. How can anyone pinpoint with all that going on? I do think they can be better and hopefully an improved version comes along soon.
 
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Boomboom907

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In that muskeg, does anyone have any luck with tracks? Or do they not stay on top of it? I know that would also kill maneuverability.
Argos and such do amazing. Utvs I'm not sure. The 6k pricetag is the only thing that kept me from trying.

I don't need a skeg killing beast, but I do need something that can get me out when I fall in. I don't intentionally try and get stuck. It's like a minefield

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Boomboom907

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In the picture it looked like there was a way around it. :) I am no fun I would have went around it and finished enjoying my day and ride.
No there's no way around it. Basically the Skeg is a flat swampy area and there's not really a mud hole. So where it looks like I went through a super deep spot it's only because I kept going and going and going and digging deeper and deeper and deeper. It didn't look anywhere even close to that bad it just gets worse as you destroy it. It's a lot like a waterbed, as long as you can stay on top without popping the waterbed you'll go anywhere you want. However if you spin your tires too aggressively or somehow windup tearing through it's a pain in the ass to get back on top of it.

On top of all of that there are tears in the muskeg they look like little tiny streams. Sometimes you can't even see him because they're under tall grass. If you hit one of those your tires are more than likely going to go under and now you're stuck and ripping into the skeg

Think of your tires like skill saws. If you can get the saw to spin really slowly it'll travel down your board rather than just cutting. So there lies the problem with the Honda. If you crawl you burn your clutches but you stay on top, if you make good by your clutches and spin your tires, you dig straight down to Hell

I'll actually upload a video of me dancing on the Scag in just a few minutes

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