Clutches are dead yet again

[hondabob]

If you get a Polaris buy the Highlifter model with the strong double roll reverse chain. The Can-Am may be available in a Highlifter model too. Both will have super low gearing and the Highlifter models will have large mud tires. Without a clutch all you need is for the wheels to be turning and you don't have to have them turning fast. I expect Honda may have a super low geared mud model in 5 or 6 years. I think it will depend on the mud model sales. We should see a few Sport models in the next 3 years and from Yamaha too. Both are going after the Sport market.

 

[Boomboom907]

If you get a Polaris buy the Highlifter model with the strong double roll reverse chain. The Can-Am may be available in a Highlifter model too. Both will have super low gearing and the Highlifter models will have large mud tires. Without a clutch all you need is for the wheels to be turning and you don't have to have them turning fast. I expect Honda may have a super low geared mud model in 5 or 6 years. I think it will depend on the mud model sales. We should see a few Sport models in the next 3 years and from Yamaha too. Both are going after the Sport market.

The rig pulling me it was a Polaris highlifter. I'm going to give Can Am a shot because I'm not super into Polaris. Also my dealers are super huge assholes here in Wasilla Alaska. I'm kind of looking at the 6x6 ATV. It's just it at Cost as much money as this damn side-by-side did. That's a lot of money for just an ATV

Good info, I'm excited to see. I'm not necessarily burned-out on Honda, but they would need to change a lot about this machine for me to consider getting another pioneer. We've used and abused their four wheelers so much that I mean I could never Trash Talk the 4-wheeler.

Hopefully Honda gets all its little wrinkles worked out and they wind up with a really nice side by side.

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[popeye]

No there's no way around it. Basically I'm not Scag is a flat swampy area there's not really a whole. So where it looks like I went through a super deep spot it's only because I kept going and going and going and digging deeper and deeper and deeper. It didn't look anywhere even close to that bad it just gets worse it's like sinking sand. It's a lot like a waterbed, as long as you can stay on top without popping the waterbed you'll go anywhere you want. However if you spin your tires too aggressively or somehow windup tearing through it's a pain in the ass to get back on top of it.

Think of your tires like skill saws. If you can get the saw to spin really slowly it'll travel rather than just cutting. So there lies the problem with the Honda. If you crawl you burn your clutches but you stay on top, if you make good by your clutches and spin your tires, you dig straight down to Hell

I'll actually upload a video of me dancing on the Scag in just a few minutes

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Definitely the wrong rig for the terrain. I know exactly what your saying, ran into some snow last weekend in the high alpine mountains following a bunch of jeeps with auto trannys. The snow was soft, warm and heavy. If you could tread lightly and get into the power, like with an auto, than you would stay on top of it. But wanting to keep my clutches fully engauged. I couldn't stay on top of the snow. Even though rigs that weighed twice as much as the p1k could. I tried as much as i could, even aired the tires down to 4 in the front and 5 psi in the rear, but the "side steping"of the clutch would brake traction and just dig.

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[Boomboom907]

Definitely the wrong rig for the terrain. I know exactly what your saying, ran into some snow last weekend in the high alpine mountains following a bunch of jeeps with auto trannys. The snow was soft, warm and heavy. If you could tread lightly and get into the power, like with an auto, than you would stay on top of it. But wanting to keep my clutches fully engauged. I couldn't stay on top of the snow. Even though rigs that weighed twice as much as the p1k could. I tried as much as i could, even aired the tires down to 4 in the front and 5 psi in the rear, but the "side steping"of the clutch would brake traction and just dig.

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Exactly. It's not necessarily a bad rig, just the wrong tool for the job.

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[Boomboom907]

https://goo.gl/photos/sT7b8BHnRshViW3M6

So here it is. Standing on top it's nice and secure. But break through and it's literally going to be 10-15 feet deep. That's the muskeg. Pretty neato


Forgot to mention how we got me out.

We literally took a machete and made an incision in the Skeg in front of my driver side front tire. Then we shoved a tree under the a arms to sort of make a ramp.

What was happening was my driver side tire was UNDER the Skeg, and my passenger tire was over. So Everytime we dragged me forward a few feet, my rig kept twisting and twisting.

Anyways. Yeah. We used machete to cut the mud to get me out of a swamp. Alaska.
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[jawquin]

https://goo.gl/photos/sT7b8BHnRshViW3M6

So here it is. Standing on top it's nice and secure. But break through and it's literally going to be 10-15 feet deep. That's the muskeg. Pretty neato


Forgot to mention how we got me out.

We literally took a machete and made an incision in the Skeg in front of my driver side front tire. Then we shoved a tree under the a arms to sort of make a ramp.

What was happening was my driver side tire was UNDER the Skeg, and my passenger tire was over. So Everytime we dragged me forward a few feet, my rig kept twisting and twisting.

Anyways. Yeah. We used machete to cut the mud to get me out of a swamp. Alaska.
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That helps a bunch! A picture is worth a thousand words. That video is worth ten thousand words. Now I understand your picture earlier in the thread. Good luck!!!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

The rig pulling me it was a Polaris highlifter. I'm going to give Can Am a shot because I'm not super into Polaris. Also my dealers are super huge assholes here in Wasilla Alaska. I'm kind of looking at the 6x6 ATV. It's just it at Cost as much money as this damn side-by-side did. That's a lot of money for just an ATV

Good info, I'm excited to see. I'm not necessarily burned-out on Honda, but they would need to change a lot about this machine for me to consider getting another pioneer. We've used and abused their four wheelers so much that I mean I could never Trash Talk the 4-wheeler.

Hopefully Honda gets all its little wrinkles worked out and they wind up with a really nice side by side.

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Being the research buff I am and recently taking the Canned Ham plunge myself if you do wind up going Canned Ham and you don't like the Crisco-lok front diff there is a company that is making drop in auto-locking front diff internals that from reports and videos online works really good and it isn't that expensive.

TORQ Locker TL-CANAM Front Differential Locker | Locking Differential | Aussie Locker By Torq Masters

From what I can gather though, the Crisco-lok front diff works really good in mud/snow/skeg where you keep good front wheel speed and it stays engaged. Where it doesn't work good is for low wheel speed operations like rock crawling because you can't keep the wheel speed up enough to keep the viscous fluid engaged. Apparently the torq locker locks and stays locked much better.

Alternatively you can use HALO lockers:Halo Lockers

But they are more expensive and require a more extensive installation but they are more like the Kawi/Yami electronic on demand front locker.

That being said, if you watch Ostacruiser on Youtube though he doesn't seem to have much of a problem with the Crisco-lok in mud/muskeg. He also runs a 6X6 Can Am a lot. I guess the lower weight of the machine and 6 tires help it float better.

I doubt I will ever need it, I never had a problem with my Honda Rincon and the Honda 3WD where I ride and the Crisco-lok is superior to that but I always like to have a backup plan.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Within 150 miles from each other, two clutch packs have failed. Pretty disappointed. Off to the shop yet again.

I don't know what I'm going to do yet. I think I'm gonna consignment sale the pig and just take the loss. Every time I go out something breaks

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Sorry to hear this yet again. Hopefully Honda hears some of our cries. For those having issues it's a terrible thing and many with no issues cant fully understand but yes some are driver and some are machine. However, yet again I'll say this is the first rig from Honda that has issues like this so they need to figure out how to make it not machine OR driver errors like every other damn Honda ever made. It's embarrassing to explain to others what not to do while behind the wheel and how it needs to be driven to not hurt it

 

[Cuoutdoors]

I agree, and that's what I've been saying and people keep shutting me down. Some of these rigs ARE doing better than others.

Had I known the machine couldn't handle bigger tires, and crawling over things, Couldn't handle anything to do with muskeg ( Muskeg is really just water, and under the water is regular mud and crap loads of dead grass. We do have peanut butter mud that's basically pure clay, but I wasn't in it ) I mean there's so many rules that these other utvs don't have. I really wish this just had a cvt. Personal opinion, and certainly not the popular one.

Anyways, this post isn't to talk crap. I'm just saying I think it's a fantastic machine for someone who wants to motor around hard pack, maybe crawl around on some rocks, camp with the family, tow stuff around the farm and occasionally go through some minor mud( you states guys have different stuff, take what I say with salt). Does awesome in snow. But the things it can't do are simply the things I do. It just can't handle the places I go. It's not that the places we go are super hard and bad, it's just not designed to handle the things we are doing. It's the design of the transmission. The gearing. The way the clutches work. I just don't think it's the tool for my job

I think I'm gonna leave it at Honda and have them sell it. I have boot camp and tech school in a few months anyways. When I get back in 2018 new stuff will be out. Maybe something cool will happen. Maybe Honda will release a sport utv. Or fix the current problems people are having with the pioneers.

And idk if this matters, I was in sport mode while stuck.

I'll report in whatever the mechanic tells me, though I think all he will say is I burnt them to crap like he did last time.

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Sorry about your luck man. I drive mine with very few rules. I agree there shouldn't be so many. I also agree some machines seem to be better than others. This reminds me of when ford came out with the 6.0 diesel. They were either great or a total pile of s***. I've pulled a lot, hauled a lot, and climbed a lot. I like to see how slow I can climb in 2 wheel drive. I've never had a problem.

I know plenty of folks are harder on things than me. Some with great luck and others not so much. There seems to be common themes but still plenty of exceptions. Hopefully you have a dealer that will go to bat for you. Good luck.

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[CPope]

I believe it's faulty machines and there are some that are driver error. I can't say if your problem is driver error or not. Also, I wont make accusations or assumptions.

A problem I have with the driver error instances are: 1, we should had a parking brake and 2, we need lower reverse, 3, stay out of the engagement zone. I believe those 3 things could have been better built or designed but it still falls under driver error because the manual says we must drive it a specific way. I don't like having so many rules on my off road rig.

There was one time I got stuck and when I floored the throttle, the engine would die because the tires were stuck. That happened 3 times so I found out the clutch is stronger than the engine.

@CPope and family took video but lost it. He can at least testify for me.


CP: I've been saying that since that jack wagon was picking Legos from his turds

I believe it's faulty machines and there are some that are driver error. I can't say if your problem is driver error or not. Also, I wont make accusations or assumptions.

A problem I have with the driver error instances are: 1, we should had a parking brake and 2, we need lower reverse, 3, stay out of the engagement zone. I believe those 3 things could have been better built or designed but it still falls under driver error because the manual says we must drive it a specific way. I don't like having so many rules on my off road rig.

There was one time I got stuck and when I floored the throttle, the engine would die because the tires were stuck. That happened 3 times so I found out the clutch is stronger than the engine.

@CPope and family took video but lost it. He can at least testify for me.


CP: I've been saying that since that jack wagon was picking Legos from his turds

i will testify on Joey's behalf!

 

[JTW]

I remember hearing about that.

These things are pretty bad. About 4k before enguagement.

It's so weird the whole clutch pack can go from totally good to totally screwed in about 6 seconds.

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Yeah.. mine went waaay sooner than I thought they should. Mine was slipping something awful... then I ran it hard on the blacktop. (That's after having to ride it about 10 miles with slipping just to get home and another couple miles around the house.. it was 4K easy in any odd gear) then it just suddenly stopped slipping. No rhyme or reason other than I ran it up the road when I fixed the brake lines.

Now, I'm just waiting for them to go back out. I have very little confidence in it right now. And I don't think it's "fixed" but they aren't slipping like they were. So I dunno??!

 

[Dasmoeturhead]

I woke up again today, and my clutches weren't dead.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I woke up again today, and my clutches weren't dead.

 

[JTW]

I woke up again today, and my clutches weren't dead.

Dick!

 

[Boomboom907]

I woke up again today, and my clutches weren't dead.

Keep doing that.

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[Dasmoeturhead]

No harm or slam was intended to the OP. If it sounded like a Slam that was not my intention. Wouldn't want this to happen to anyone.

 

[JTW]

No harm or slam was intended to the OP. If it sounded like a Slam that was not my intention. Wouldn't want this to happen to anyone.

I was just being a dick by calling you a dick.. it's ok, we all came to the same finish!

 

[Boomboom907]

No harm or slam was intended to the OP. If it sounded like a Slam that was not my intention. Wouldn't want this to happen to anyone.

I didn't get that anyways. I thought it was funny

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[JTW]

I didn't get that anyways. I thought it was funny

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Me too..

 

[Dasmoeturhead]

What I said was from a new Willie Nelson song called , I woke up again not dead again today.
Kinda how I feel about my clutches every day. I never know if there going to blow up. With all the failures I read about, I'm just waiting for it to happen. So far though its still going strong.