P1000 Honda radiator Class Action Lawsuit

[Bighat]

I also installed an inferno heater. The instruction I got to bleed the air was fill it up and drive it under a little pull up a slope and repeat all untill you level off on the full mark. This worked great. Driveway is on a slope. No trouble at all bleeding the Honda but I have had other machines that can give you a fit.

 

[Admin]

 

[mlynch001]

no clue if the P1000 is different or not - probably the same, can't find my darn notes of what it measured

I went with an aluminum 26mm inline fitting that the temp gauge thermocouple went into. I measured the hard coolant line with a caliper, was close to 1" and said 26mm is fine.

Clamped that top hose where it comes off the hard coolant line, siphoned some coolant out of radiator, pulled hose off of radiator, poured what was left in the hose into a container and then cut a 1" piece or so off the factory hose and slipped the fitting in - never shortened the hose but you could - tightened everything up, poured the coolant back in, removed clamp, wired up and done.

if you get the oil pressure figured out - please post - that is interesting as well.

Thanks for that information. I was pretty sure that 25-26mm would work, but wanted to be 100% sure. The oil pressure is figured out, just need to execute the plan. My issue is that this is going to be more difficult and I am not as young and flexible as I used to be. The Pioneer engine is pretty much buried and difficult to reach the places needed. I will document when I get started.

 

[JMynes]

Although I cannot confirm the entire story, I have talked to one owner on a FB forum who said that the fan on his P1k was "pushing" air out the front. Looking at the cooling fan, it might be possible to have the connector incorrectly pinned and reversing the motor OR to install the fan blade "backwards" making it into a pusher fan. I never heard if his problem was the former or latter situation. However, He was adamant that his fan was pushing air from the rear of the radiator and out the grill.

Removing the fan, flipping it and reinstalling it “backward” doesn’t change the direction of air flow. The fan blades are still slanted in the same direction.
The shape of the fan blades and any airfoil present on the blades can and will affect the efficiency of the fan, and therefore the amount of air being moved, but the direction of flow stays the same.

 

[Bighat]

I almost forgot. I seen a high performance fan blade at: Honda Pioneer 1000 Moose Cooling Fan | Side by Side Stuff

 

[mlynch001]

Removing the fan, flipping it and reinstalling it “backward” doesn’t change the direction of air flow. The fan blades are still slanted in the same direction.
The shape of the fan blades and any airfoil present on the blades can and will affect the efficiency of the fan, and therefore the amount of air being moved, but the direction of flow stays the same.

OK, Never looked at it. That is what I get for "Assuming" But the airfoil of the fan blade is reversed, In relation to the direction of rotation. So if you flipped the fan it would probably be really noisy and inefficient. So the only way for the fan to push would be to be pinned wrong and run the motor backwards. (I'm Just reciting the lesson.) Appreciate you educating me.

 

[mlynch001]

I almost forgot. I seen a high performance fan blade at: Honda Pioneer 1000 Moose Cooling Fan | Side by Side Stuff

That looks like a SPAL cooling fan. Probably all come from the same factory?

 

[HBarlow]

I've never seen a hint of overheating with my '21 Pioneer or previous '20 Talon.

 

[PVAndy]

Removing the fan, flipping it and reinstalling it “backward” doesn’t change the direction of air flow. The fan blades are still slanted in the same direction.
The shape of the fan blades and any airfoil present on the blades can and will affect the efficiency of the fan, and therefore the amount of air being moved, but the direction of flow stays the same.

If you truly turn the fan over. It obviously reverses the air flow direction regardless of the shape of the blades unless you reverse the motor direction

Andy

 

[HBarlow]

A DC electric motor rotates in the same direction and air flows through that fan in the same direction unless polarity is reversed.

Perhaps the difference of opinion here results from word confusion.

This might help clarify: If the fan is installed backward in the radiator core support air will continue to flow in the same direction through the fan itself but in the opposite direction through the radiator it is attached to.

A reverse installed fan would be working against the air flow resulting from movement of the vehicle.

 

[Bugbldr]

I’ve been told there is a software glitch if you turn the key on for more than five seconds before engaging the starter the fan will not kick on. I cannot verify this is why mine overheated and boiled over but once I cycled the key the fan came on. Dealer did a software update and no problems since.

 

[HBarlow]

I’ve been told there is a software glitch if you turn the key on for more than five seconds before engaging the starter the fan will not kick on. I cannot verify this is why mine overheated and boiled over but once I cycled the key the fan came on. Dealer did a software update and no problems since.

An interesting possibility but it is not true on my 2021 P1K3.

I always turn the key on and wait probably 5 - 8 seconds before starting to give the fuel pump a moment to charge the fuel injectors. I have no idea if it's necessary or of any benefit. It's an old habit from Dodges w/Cummins engines.

 

[Pilgrim]

I had to install a SPAL fan on mine…..Honda will not/ ever under any circumstances admit they had a problem….. as a matter of fact they tried to void my extended warranty because I changed the fan…… the fan change solved the problem……

 

[HBarlow]

I had to install a SPAL fan on mine…..Honda will not/ ever under any circumstances admit they had a problem….. as a matter of fact they tried to void my extended warranty because I changed the fan…… the fan change solved the problem……

Who is the dealer?

 

[JMynes]

If you truly turn the fan over. It obviously reverses the air flow direction regardless of the shape of the blades unless you reverse the motor direction

Andy

I don’t think we’re on the same page.
I’m talking about removing the fan blades from the motor shaft and reinstalling it backward. I believe you are talking about removing the entire fan assembly, turning it 180 degrees, and mounting it back up.

 

[mlynch001]

I had to install a SPAL fan on mine…..Honda will not/ ever under any circumstances admit they had a problem….. as a matter of fact they tried to void my extended warranty because I changed the fan…… the fan change solved the problem……

They may not admit there is a problem, However, the old addage "Actions speak louder than words" applies here. The 2022 model has a completely redesigned fan blade and shroud along with a completely revised radiator. This fan looks more like the SPAL Curved blade fans that you see aftermarket companies selling. They had a problem, or they would not have changed the 2022.

 

[HBarlow]

I think mother Honda shows a little arrogance toward their loyal customers sometimes. There's little doubt that Honda engineering is top shelf and their products are very reliable but they are not perfect.

 

[mlynch001]

I think mother Honda shows a little arrogance toward their loyal customers sometimes. There's little doubt that Honda engineering is top shelf and their products are very reliable but they are not perfect.

I worked for HONDA for 25+ years. You hit the nail on the head. I worked with HONDA engineers on the first year model V45 Motorcycles that these brilliant but hard headed engineers said "did not have a Camshaft problem". I had one of these "perfect" motorcycles and once I finally proved to them that there was a serious lubrication design flaw AND provided them with a fix for their screw up, the very next year model they quietly adopted all of my "Home Brewed" fixes as well as a couple of their own. My V45 will be 40 this year and has 80k Miles, Still running with those fixes that I designed and implemented in 1984. Long story short, HONDA does not admit to many "engineering errors", but if they warranty enough failures or get enough "BAD PRESS" they will fix the problem(s). I contend that this is what we are seeing in the 2022 models.

 

[kenferg1]

I would like to know how many Pioneer 1000 owners have experienced engine overheating problems, like me.
Would like to know the conditions when it happens, and any other information of modifications, tire sizes, bumpers, etc.
I know there are a few of you out there, especially those that ride in high mountain elevations. My machine has overheated on mountain passes when a riding partner on a Polaris Ranger Crew 1000 Premium kept cool. Something is just not right.
Surely, we, as Honda Pioneer Owners, could force Honda to do something about their poor design. I am not a legal type, so maybe someone with a legal background could take this poll data and do something with it.

Have you taken it to be seen by a Honda mechanic?

 

[HBarlow]

I worked for HONDA for 25+ years. You hit the nail on the head. I worked with HONDA engineers on the first year model V45 Motorcycles that these brilliant but hard headed engineers said "did not have a Camshaft problem". I had one of these "perfect" motorcycles and once I finally proved to them that there was a serious lubrication design flaw AND provided them with a fix for their screw up, the very next year model they quietly adopted all of my "Home Brewed" fixes as well as a couple of their own. My V45 will be 40 this year and has 80k Miles, Still running with those fixes that I designed and implemented in 1984. Long story short, HONDA does not admit to many "engineering errors", but if they warranty enough failures or get enough "BAD PRESS" they will fix the problem(s). I contend that this is what we are seeing in the 2022 models.

I think that is a reflection of the Japanese culture. You saw it up close and personal.

Thanks for the inside story.

 

[Herbie]

Have you taken it to be seen by a Honda mechanic?

I bought my ‘16 a couple of years used. After reading on these forums, I dont think I would ever take it to a dealer, unless I want to be without my machine and spend lots of money. I have replaced and ‘burped‘ the coolant system a couple of times, from radiator cap and bleed screw locations. I will try burping on a steep incline next.
I have installed a temperature indicator in the coolant line, but put it on the passenger side hose, and it was pointed out to me that was the return hose.☹️ I have another in-line hose temperature indicator to install when I get back to my machine in a couple of weeks. When I get that one installed, I will be able to read coolant temperature in and out of the radiator. Then I can take some real good data.

I have also installed a COPS lower temperature thermostat, and higher pressure radiator cap, hoping to find something else that would help. But did not help.
Photos attached are the temperature indicator and location of sensor for indicator.