P500 SxS vs ATV

[Seg]

This being the case, choose a machine with a real, selectable front locker or be prepared to pull a winch cable all day. It doesn't matter the brand or type, in steep rocks if you don't have a front locker you'll spend more time pulling a winch cable than riding. Been there and got the t-shirt.

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Yeah, I had to winch up a couple of times too because of no locked Diff...BUT, I was testing the limit of the machine climbing very damp mountains in APril with no trails. Outlander LX also had to winch up. They were surprised how far up I made it!

 

[Admin]

 

[Montecresto]

This being the case, choose a machine with a real, selectable front locker or be prepared to pull a winch cable all day. It doesn't matter the brand or type, in steep rocks if you don't have a front locker you'll spend more time pulling a winch cable than riding. Been there and got the t-shirt.

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Dude doesn't know how to operate the P-5 yet. Mine would have crawled right up that. In fact, I've been on worse and haven't pulled the winch out yet. I also think it's funny that he put his winch cable around a sapling, lol.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I've not owned a p5 but I do feel my p7 or 1000 would have went up that in 2x, doesn't look all that steep or slick just needed 5 more mph. Doesn't scare me from the p5 yet I wish it had a locker.

 

[MontanaBighorn]

I'm in the market for two more SxSs now that my youngest two daughters are ready (we start out all children on dirt bikes, then ATVs, then SxSs as they master the fundamental skill sets of each). I would absolutely love to get them each a P500 but won't for the same reason I avoided Honda SxSs before the P1000; no front locker. I've never once in my life had to tow any Honda because it broke down, but over the years I've had to pull quite a few through obstacles because they were holding everyone else up/blocking the trail because 3 wheel drive just doesn't cut it in steep rocks. I had an early Rincon I was pulling up Daniel Trail (Uwharrie, NC) lose footing and slide over an edge. Had he not hit a tree he would likely have dragged me and my Rhino down to the bottom with him.
This certainly isn't a criticism of an otherwise great machine; I just don't want to spend the time having to drag or winch them through sections that locked machines do with relative ease.
Not everybody needs a front locker but the original poster's stated intention is steep rocks and I believe it is irresponsible to recommend any machine for him that doesn't have true four wheel drive. An OEM or aftermarket locker for the P500 would make it an excellent machine for steep rocks but as is, not so much.

 

[pFive]

If I recall the original Hummer that was used in the military does not have a front locker either. You were required to modulate the brake and throttle to obtain resistance to the spinning/lifted tire to force torque to the wheel on the ground.

I wonder if that's the case with these? Come to think of it I don't think the rincon or many other big ATV's have a locking front diff?

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm in the market for two more SxSs now that my youngest two daughters are ready (we start out all children on dirt bikes, then ATVs, then SxSs as they master the fundamental skill sets of each). I would absolutely love to get them each a P500 but won't for the same reason I avoided Honda SxSs before the P1000; no front locker. I've never once in my life had to tow any Honda because it broke down, but over the years I've had to pull quite a few through obstacles because they were holding everyone else up/blocking the trail because 3 wheel drive just doesn't cut it in steep rocks. I had an early Rincon I was pulling up Daniel Trail (Uwharrie, NC) lose footing and slide over an edge. Had he not hit a tree he would likely have dragged me and my Rhino down to the bottom with him.
This certainly isn't a criticism of an otherwise great machine; I just don't want to spend the time having to drag or winch them through sections that locked machines do with relative ease.
Not everybody needs a front locker but the original poster's stated intention is steep rocks and I believe it is irresponsible to recommend any machine for him that doesn't have true four wheel drive. An OEM or aftermarket locker for the P500 would make it an excellent machine for steep rocks but as is, not so much.

The 700 has a locker

 

[Montecresto]

If I recall the original Hummer that was used in the military does not have a front locker either. You were required to modulate the brake and throttle to obtain resistance to the spinning/lifted tire to force torque to the wheel on the ground.

I wonder if that's the case with these? Come to think of it I don't think the rincon or many other big ATV's have a locking front diff?

Yep!!!

 

[MontanaBighorn]

The last thing I want to do is attempt to manipulate the brake while climbing in hopes of sending power to the lame wheel.
The Grizzly, Brute Force, all Arctic Cats and the newer Honda ATVs all have selectable front lockers now. The Polaris front drive is locked as well, but doesn't even pull unless the rear starts to slip. Can Ams use a limited slip locker which is better than being open but still less than ideal for rocks.

 

[sthomp54]

I've not heard many complain of the p500 climbing ability. I would be shocked if a 700 or 1000 did much better even with a front locker. It would be nice to have a front locker but not a deal breaker. Besides 90% is driver skill anyway.

 

[MontanaBighorn]

I would be shocked if a 700 or 1000 did much better even with a front locker

This to me suggests that you haven't truly tested the limits of your machine, gravity and physics yet. Lockers make all the difference in the world when it gets really ugly. Again, this is not a criticism; it's simple mechanical principle, physics and gravity.

 

[ehart814]

I've not heard many complain of the p500 climbing ability. I would be shocked if a 700 or 1000 did much better even with a front locker. It would be nice to have a front locker but not a deal breaker. Besides 90% is driver skill anyway.

I agree that skill is a huge factor, however I have been in situations that a locker would have been very beneficial. I had this happen two times that I can remember. Climbing a hill, not muddy but not dusty. No major obstacles like rocks, maybe some minor roots. Steep, with little room at the bottom to build speed. Climb in second. Enough traction that the tires only spin slightly. Get almost to the top, and wheel spin begins to increase. Front diff unloads and the front tire with less traction spins out bad and the machine immediately stops climbing. Grab brake, back down slowly, go another route.
Too steep of a hill to use brakes and slow momentum. The diff unloaded so suddenly that it would have been impossible to apply brakes in time to catch it before the machine stopped climbing.

All that being said, a locker is even more of a necessity for the rocks.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm in the market for two more SxSs now that my youngest two daughters are ready (we start out all children on dirt bikes, then ATVs, then SxSs as they master the fundamental skill sets of each). I would absolutely love to get them each a P500 but won't for the same reason I avoided Honda SxSs before the P1000; no front locker. I've never once in my life had to tow any Honda because it broke down, but over the years I've had to pull quite a few through obstacles because they were holding everyone else up/blocking the trail because 3 wheel drive just doesn't cut it in steep rocks. I had an early Rincon I was pulling up Daniel Trail (Uwharrie, NC) lose footing and slide over an edge. Had he not hit a tree he would likely have dragged me and my Rhino down to the bottom with him.
This certainly isn't a criticism of an otherwise great machine; I just don't want to spend the time having to drag or winch them through sections that locked machines do with relative ease.
Not everybody needs a front locker but the original poster's stated intention is steep rocks and I believe it is irresponsible to recommend any machine for him that doesn't have true four wheel drive. An OEM or aftermarket locker for the P500 would make it an excellent machine for steep rocks but as is, not so much.

I love the way you start of kids. We have started all of ours on two wheels for the reasoning that it gives you respect. A few people I know tell me how unsafe a dirtbike is and I disagree. They are harder but when you're young a tip over isn't a big deal however catching a hole on one tire and having the whole weight of a quad on you is. I'll let the kids do more with more once I see the control happen on a bike. Most of our kids could ride an engine before peddles and it makes them so much smarter. An atv or sxs are easy and should not be learned on. I've seen to many people get hurt because of how "easy" they are. A bike will go anywhere with ability however a sxs will go darn near anywhere with little. That being said I'm starting to prefer the sxs at times because I'm getting older and have learned how to have lots of fun with 4 freinds at the same time. Don't get me wrong I'm not too old that I get dirt spit on the front fender of my crf"300"x. I would like a 500 for the the simple fact of how fun and agile it seems. It will mainly be a spare vehicle for our adult friends and kids that have experience on other things. Maybe the wife and I on occasions. As more me I love the 1000 and will take it 99.9% of the places anything else goes however it's a tank and you have to battle trees a bit our roof is so warped scratched and beat up on the sides from setting the roof before a bad spot. The 500 I won't have to do this. Have even considered a 700-2 for this but I'm ready to try the 500. What the hell its got a following for some reason right. Must be fun

 

[CumminsPusher]

The last thing I want to do is attempt to manipulate the brake while climbing in hopes of sending power to the lame wheel.
The Grizzly, Brute Force, all Arctic Cats and the newer Honda ATVs all have selectable front lockers now. The Polaris front drive is locked as well, but doesn't even pull unless the rear starts to slip. Can Ams use a limited slip locker which is better than being open but still less than ideal for rocks.

I agree with the tire slip on the Polaris atv awd. That sucks!!! It doesn't have near the control or traction as a locked setup. Thanks for mentioning that because people argue with me at how much "easier and better " that setup is. Honda it's locked! On gravel or loose footing you can't compare!

 

[Montecresto]

Just like a mouse can go where a rat can't, the P-5 can go where the 1000 can't.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Just like a mouse can go where a rat can't, the P-5 can go where the 1000 can't.

To a degree yes. But the 1000 will push over crap till it gets there it's a mountain goat too just a fat one

 

[Montecresto]

To a degree yes. But the 1000 will push over crap till it gets there it's a mountain goat too just a fat one

No criticism of the 1000 to be sure. But it's not going to push over a tree bigger than three inches, especially going up hill. Where the Red Wasp and Yellow Jacket ride, you'd have to pull out the chainsaw often, or go around.

 

[CumminsPusher]

No criticism of the 1000 to be sure. But it's not going to push over a tree bigger than three inches, especially going up hill. Where the Red Wasp and Yellow Jacket ride, you'd have to pull out the chainsaw often, or go around.

We do have kids that love the saws!! But seriously yes I want a 500 too!

 

[sthomp54]

This to me suggests that you haven't truly tested the limits of your machine, gravity and physics yet. Lockers make all the difference in the world when it gets really ugly. Again, this is not a criticism; it's simple mechanical principle, physics and gravity.

Im not disagreeing that a locker will help... There are alot a variables when comparing machines. Weight, Width, Height, Ground Clearance, Gearing, Tires, Driver, the list goes on and on. I think you would find the p500 does very well in real world applications.

 

[MontanaBighorn]

a locker is even more of a necessity for the rocks.

Indeed. I can think of no greater need than when rock crawling.

 

[MontanaBighorn]

I love the way you start of kids. We have started all of ours on two wheels for the reasoning that it gives you respect.

Thanks, and exactly. By starting them out on dirt bikes they are learning about balance and physics and when they do get hurt the injuries are statistically less serious than on quads which teaches them the most important lesson, respect for the machine that will bite you if/when you get stupid. When I got my first quad, applying the fundamentals I learned on a dirt bike was second nature.