Talon Front Driveline Woes

[hondabob]

I check the paint marks on my 2020 Talon R and its still ok at 5,000 miles. The failure rate may be small but I check mine every few hundred miles.

 

[Admin]

 

[PaulF]

Are you sure you want to take the driveshaft out to weld it? You pretty much have to pull the diff out to get the driveshaft out, and if your digging onto it that far I'd buy an RB3 billet rack and swap that in at the same time to avoid having to pull the diff out again if/when the stock rack breaks.

Removing the driveshaft is not that hard and removal of the front diff is not necessary. It takes less than 1 hour to R&R and I have done it a couple times and can do it in 40 minutes (20 to remove and 20 to install).

The tricks are ..

• Instead of removing the floor pan, just use a pry bar and move it over about 1/2 inch so you can remove one of the driveline loop bolts.
• Release the clip on the driveline at the front diff, do not remove the clutch.
• If you are alone, use a ratchet strap to hold the front diff as far forward as possible because it wants to slide back if you don't hold it forward.
• If you still cannot remove the driveline, use another ratchet strap on the RR engine mount to the rear of the frame and pull the motor back a little. This will give you the room you need to sneak the driveline out.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

If you have to unbolt the diff anyway it doesn't take more than an extra 10 minutes to pop the lower ball joints and remove the axles from the housing. Pull the diff and driveshaft out all in one piece and mess with that stupid retaining clip on the clutch housing outside the vehicle.

 

[Doogle]

Removing the driveshaft is not that hard and removal of the front diff is not necessary. It takes less than 1 hour to R&R and I have done it a couple times and can do it in 40 minutes (20 to remove and 20 to install).

The tricks are ..

• Instead of removing the floor pan, just use a pry bar and move it over about 1/2 inch so you can remove one of the driveline loop bolts.
• Release the clip on the driveline at the front diff, do not remove the clutch.
• If you are alone, use a ratchet strap to hold the front diff as far forward as possible because it wants to slide back if you don't hold it forward.
• If you still cannot remove the driveline, use another ratchet strap on the RR engine mount to the rear of the frame and pull the motor back a little. This will give you the room you need to sneak the driveline out.

I had a slight movement on my front U-joint paint marks-800 miles. Today I dropped the skid plate and found slight play in the rear U-joint. I've had the Talon about 15 months with no extended warranty. Is Honda doing anything for this obvious manufacturing defect? Or am I on my own? I think I read there are no alternate parts sources yet. The last few years I've found that laying down under vehicles and looking up starts a vertigo episode for me. And with just several minutes removing the skid plate, I'm not feeling real good. If there is no chance of Honda covering this problem, I'll probably do it myself and feel sick for a day. Did you get your parts through Honda? Can these yokes be bored and sleeved for a back up shaft?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I had a slight movement on my front U-joint paint marks-800 miles. Today I dropped the skid plate and found slight play in the rear U-joint. I've had the Talon about 15 months with no extended warranty. Is Honda doing anything for this obvious manufacturing defect? Or am I on my own? I think I read there are no alternate parts sources yet. The last few years I've found that laying down under vehicles and looking up starts a vertigo episode for me. And with just several minutes removing the skid plate, I'm not feeling real good. If there is no chance of Honda covering this problem, I'll probably do it myself and feel sick for a day. Did you get your parts through Honda? Can these yokes be bored and sleeved for a back up shaft?

I doubt they are going to cover it 15 months into a 1yr warranty. 😂 Order a new driveshaft from the OEM parts supplier of your choice, tack weld the caps before you install it and the enjoy years of trouble free use.

 

[sandbaja]

I had a slight movement on my front U-joint paint marks-800 miles. Today I dropped the skid plate and found slight play in the rear U-joint. I've had the Talon about 15 months with no extended warranty. Is Honda doing anything for this obvious manufacturing defect? Or am I on my own? I think I read there are no alternate parts sources yet. The last few years I've found that laying down under vehicles and looking up starts a vertigo episode for me. And with just several minutes removing the skid plate, I'm not feeling real good. If there is no chance of Honda covering this problem, I'll probably do it myself and feel sick for a day. Did you get your parts through Honda? Can these yokes be bored and sleeved for a back up shaft?

Not to derail the thread but are you familiar with BBPV and the Epley maneuver? Talk to your Doc. It may help you with the vertigo issue.

Home Epley Maneuver

The home Epley maneuver is a type of exercise help that helps to treat the symptoms of benign paroxysmal positional vertigo (BPPV). You can do this exercise at home.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

 

[hondabob]

It doesn't hurt to ask for goodwill warranty. Its a known problem. They can do a parts demand check to see how many have failed. My buddy's 2021 Talon had a bearing cap fall out at less then 400 miles. My first one had a U-joint failure at 15,000 miles. Both warranty drive shafts lasted less then 3,000 miles. My dealer let me get the next one welded before they installed it. I'm at 29,802 miles now with no problems. If a bearing cap has not come out and damaged the yoke you can have your drive shaft fixed with new U-joints. The bearing caps are still ok on my 2020 Talon with a bit over 6,000 miles.

 

[Doogle]

It doesn't hurt to ask for goodwill warranty. Its a known problem. They can do a parts demand check to see how many have failed. My buddy's 2021 Talon had a bearing cap fall out at less then 400 miles. My first one had a U-joint failure at 15,000 miles. Both warranty drive shafts lasted less then 3,000 miles. My dealer let me get the next one welded before they installed it. I'm at 29,802 miles now with no problems. If a bearing cap has not come out and damaged the yoke you can have your drive shaft fixed with new U-joints. The bearing caps are still ok on my 2020 Talon with a bit over 6,000 miles.

My caps haven't come out. They are just loose. It's my understanding that the yokes were not proper interference fit. I think new caps in an oversized yoke would be just as loose as it is now. I don't want to be out in the desert alone and have a break down. But these Talons are having multiple parts issues that should be dealer fixed at no cost. If not, when will there be a class action suit? I bought this Honda expecting their world class dependability. Maybe that is only for cars and motorcycles.

 

[HondaTech]

Interesting fact to add to this conversation.
The last driveshaft I replaced was on a 2021 R and Honda called waiting pictures of the paint marks on the caps.

Something about the could trace the origin of the assembly with those marks. Which got me looking, all the driveshafts on our warranty shelf had a single green paint stripe across the one cap onto the joint itself at each end of the shaft.

The LV i just did the sub trans on with 2200 miles had a single gree dot on one cap on each end of the shaft, no failure.

 

[Doogle]

Interesting fact to add to this conversation.
The last driveshaft I replaced was on a 2021 R and Honda called waiting pictures of the paint marks on the caps.

Something about the could trace the origin of the assembly with those marks. Which got me looking, all the driveshafts on our warranty shelf had a single green paint stripe across the one cap onto the joint itself at each end of the shaft.

The LV i just did the sub trans on with 2200 miles had a single gree dot on one cap on each end of the shaft, no failure.

Just realized you are probably more than a technical assistant on the forum for us less knowledgeable DIY members. Thanks for your after hours time helping us. I now assume you work at Honda.

 

[HondaTech]

Just realized you are probably more than a technical assistant on the forum for us less knowledgeable DIY members. Thanks for your after hours time helping us. I now assume you work at Honda.

Just a Technician at Cincinnati's Finest
Honda of Fairfield!!

 

[Doogle]

Just a Technician at Cincinnati's Finest
Honda of Fairfield!!

I live in Monroe, a couple miles from there. Looked at new motorcycles there a couple years ago. I winter in the Phoenix area, where my Talon stays. I may stop in when I return to Ohio in May. Honda is close to Jungle Jim's?

 

[Doogle]

I ordered a new shaft yesterday. RideNow,Surprise,Az said he thought no chance of Honda helping me. I'm don't want to wait any longer. 2 questions before I start removal. Is the steering assembly in the way when trying to pull the diff forward? And which yoke is longer? Will the front yoke pull out easier than the rear, if it's shorter? When the Phoenix rain stops, I will start removal and wait for the new shaft.

 

[PaulF]

I ordered a new shaft yesterday. RideNow,Surprise,Az said he thought no chance of Honda helping me. I'm don't want to wait any longer. 2 questions before I start removal. Is the steering assembly in the way when trying to pull the diff forward? And which yoke is longer? Will the front yoke pull out easier than the rear, if it's shorter? When the Phoenix rain stops, I will start removal and wait for the new shaft.

Steering need not be disturbed.
Front splines are way shorter than the rear.

• Hint 1: You can remover the front driveline loop bolt by prying the floorboard away about 1/2 inch. No need to remove all the plastics, just the skid plate.
• Hint 2: After releasing the clip, put a tie strap on the front diff to hold it forward, it continually want to slide back.
• Hint 3: Remove the right side motor mount bolts and use a ratchet strap to pull the motor back slightly. This will give you the room to get the driveline out without completely removing the diff which entails removing the bumper, winch, axles, etc.

 

[HondaTech]

I live in Monroe, a couple miles from there. Looked at new motorcycles there a couple years ago. I winter in the Phoenix area, where my Talon stays. I may stop in when I return to Ohio in May. Honda is close to Jungle Jim's?

Right across Route 4 from Jungle Jims.

 

[Doogle]

Hint 3: Remove the right side motor mount bolts and use a ratchet strap to pull the motor back slightly. This will give you the room to get the driveline out without completely removing the diff which entails removing the bumper, winch, axles, etc.

I read this just in time. I was going to start removing the bumper & winch when the rain stopped. Big thank you.

 

[Tramguage1]

Next one I remove I will use a hole saw and make a hole in the floorboard to make it easier to access that hoop bolt. Then a piece if plastic shaped to fit the contour of the floorboard with 4 push pins.

 

[Smitty335]

Next one I remove I will use a hole saw and make a hole in the floorboard to make it easier to access that hoop bolt. Then a piece if plastic shaped to fit the contour of the floorboard with 4 push pins.

You can buy round push in covers.

 

[HondaTech]

Steering need not be disturbed.
Front splines are way shorter than the rear.

• Hint 1: You can remover the front driveline loop bolt by prying the floorboard away about 1/2 inch. No need to remove all the plastics, just the skid plate.
• Hint 2: After releasing the clip, put a tie strap on the front diff to hold it forward, it continually want to slide back.
• Hint 3: Remove the right side motor mount bolts and use a ratchet strap to pull the motor back slightly. This will give you the room to get the driveline out without completely removing the diff which entails removing the bumper, winch, axles, etc.

If you dont have a winch, then the diff will come forward enough to slip the yoke off the sub trans. Remove both driveshaft loops and it'll allow the rear of the diff to drop enough to clear the steering box.

I dont remove any engine mount bolts or fiddle with the driveshaft clip.

Even with a winch, the bumper comes off easy with the winch attached. Unless you have the stupid SuperAtv winch mount. The bumper holds itself in the mounts without falling. I'd much rather remove a bumper/winch then engine mount bolts.

Doing it this way, ive finished a sub trans rebuild in under 5 hours.

 

[HondaTech]

Next one I remove I will use a hole saw and make a hole in the floorboard to make it easier to access that hoop bolt. Then a piece if plastic shaped to fit the contour of the floorboard with 4 push pins.

Swivel 12mm socket (1/4" drive) will take the bolt closer to the floorboard out easy.